rumor take it for waht its worth...Wayne spoke to Shotty

What's the "alot" he's done to push this team to a few wins?

If you felt this was one of the worst teams in the NFL at the beginning of the season that's great. It's a shame you weren't the GM and HC.

That being said, I would be giving Cam credit if he had won a few games with this team. It's called overcoming adversity and its what being a HC at this level is all about. Why are the people who expect a few wins in an NFL season morons?

Is the lack of discipline and preparation a "shallow criticism" of Cam? Is it too much to ask of his delicate genius that his team not be the most penlized in the NFL? Is it ok to ask him to have his team prepared to play every week?

What excuse will you make for Cam next year? I can already make your argument for you: "He's playing with a first year QB, give him a chance"

I don't expect a coach to be a miracle worker, but I expect some results, no matter how minor.

 

Yes, clearly I'm making excuses, rather than merely offering an opinion contrary to your own. Cameron is paying me off. I'm a mole.

And results you got. Not my fault or problem if you can't see them.

 

Hey man I totally agree with you. We all scream about wanting to re-build and overhaul the roster, then we finally do so and we complain about losing.

 

I'm not slamming your opinion man and I apologize if it came off that way.

Here is my basic point; All the roster issues that you and I agree on (injuries, previous bad drafts, etc.) are reasons that we are not a playoff team or even a good team.

The roster issues, however, are excuses why we have been unable to win even one game in 13 tries and might go 0-16. Unless this is the worst roster ever assembled in the NFL's modern era then we should have been able to win at least 2-3 times this season. I'd highlight the expansion Browns as the worst roster I've ever seen, and that team won 3 games.

I agree that at this point 1-15 or 0-16 doens't make a ton of difference in the long run, but doesn't it matter at all, that Cam has not managed to win once. Even in a rebuilding scenario, teams have managed to win games.

 

Mueller is long overdue. When I heard he got an extension it really put the state of the Dolphins into perspective. That would be a good start on the road to recovery, and why not toss Cameron out on his *** to.

 

I hate to belabor the point but if you own a team that goes 0-16 in this era and then allow that coach to continue, isn't it a tacit admission that losing is acceptable. That is the kind of attitude that creeps into your organization and infects the players, everyone. Then you become the Cardinals.

What happens if we start 0-4 next year? Then we're 0-20 under Cam. When does it end?

 

This is Mueller first year as the actual GM....

He had a good draft and made some great trades for us long term.

Welker for Satele?

 

Still have to wait and see on the draft. Beck has along way to go and we're not getting much of anything from the second day guys.

 

I am almost to the point to say the heck with it and hire both Pete Carroll and his buddy Pat Kirwan. I think that would be about as good of an option as any.

 

That was a joke I hope!

 

Yea, thats what Phin fans were saying when he got the extension. I asked them what they thought of it when it happened and most said the jury was still out because he never had full control. They'd give him a chance to see what he could do. Well, in his first year as a full control GM, the team has yet to win a game, and played musical chairs at QB yet again.

I know you guys are high on Satele and all but Welker is having a Pro Bowl year right now. He obviously had the potential to do the same for the Phins, but the team was headed in the wrong direction. The move may turn out to be better in the future but for now it looks like you guys got fleeced.

Mueller is garbage man. There's no better evidence then the Dolphins record. And as far as his draft goes, I don't know how you can really say it was 'good' yet. It can take a while to see how good a draft actually turns out to be.

 

No. I don't know who else is out there. I think if it comes down to it, it may be a viable option. Why do you think Carroll is better cut out for college, or is it Kirwan that you have questions about?

 

Carroll is a GOD at USC. I think you'd have to give him a hell of an offer to get him to budge from a job like the one he has now. I don't think he would leave though.

 

To me, if this is a true rumor of Schotty, we should move Cam down to offensive coordinator. That would be a great move IMO.

 

The Dolphins fanbase was like the Yankees fanbase when they ran Shula out of town despite annual playoff appearances.

Complaining about being winless after 13 weeks of poor performances, and losing the team in the process is not the same as calling for Joe Torre's job after blowing it in the playoffs for 7 straight years with the leagues highest payroll.

Being the first non expansion team to go winless through the first 13 games and possibly being the only team to go 0-16 is not the hallmark of a great coach. If that isn't evidence of bad coaching, I honestly don't know what is.

What area of this team has gotten better? The O-line is regressing at this point. Where can Cam hang his hat?

Good coaches find a way to win. His team, and his career itself need a win just to get some breathing room and he can't figure out how to do it. When this team is desperate for one more win in week 17 against a team with more talent to get into the playoffs, will they honestly look to Cam as the guy who can lead them to victory? Not if they were on this years roster.

 

The entire Patriots Offense is having a pro bowl year.

If Satele turns out to be Mawai jr, we will see who got fleeced, the way I see it, we have a center for the next 10 years for a 3rd wr/kr.

Do you actually think Wes Welker would have made an ounce of difference for us this year? I don't.

We have three starters out of the box from this draft, and not just filling space starters either, Ginn and Satele are playing very well for us.

In miami in the past that is a rare beast for us....

A 2nd for Chambers? We may have cut the guy to save his 7 million next year, a 2nd for a guy who you might release is addition by subtraction.

 

Hell yeah! I will be so happy if Cameron and Mueller get fired. Marty is who I want and I know he will be a lot tougher than Cameron was on the guys. Thats great news if its true. I have a feeling that Wayne wouldn't waste any time. As soon as the season is over you will see Cameron and Mueller get their walking papers!

 

I agree with all of the Spielman points. On Mueller I have a few points:

I disagree on Wes. Samson is more important this year and for the future than Wes could be. This was a great trade for both teams.

Green was brought in for more than his playing ability. He looks good with the headset on and it'd be nice if they could find room for him on the coaching staff next year.

Carter hasn't done much in Tampa. Not enough to justify the cap hit he would have had here. Still, it's clear that no one had much of idea of what we had or what we needed on defense. This is the area that Mueller can and should be held to the fire.

Agree with Jones. Punters like him are worth the money.

 

Yes I believe Welker could have made a difference for you this year. Not much, but there were a few games you were in and yes, he could have helped out. He wouldn't have been a 3rd WR on your team this season anyway.

As far as having 3 starters out of the box, congrats, 3 starters on a team that hasn't won a game yet. Are they starting based on merit or are they in there because of injury? Is it a throw in the towel kind of thing just to get them experience for next season? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. I don't even know who they are outside of Ginn.

Chambers isn't a bad receiver. 7 mill may be a bit much, but it's obvious that another team found him worthy enough to make a move for him. Yea, he's useless to the Phins, but thats not his fault, it's the font office and the head coaches fault for having them in the situation they're in in the first place. Do you think they would have looked to move him if you were in the playoff hunt at the time? Good move based on the situation, bad being in the situation in the first place.

 

Ehh, perhaps, who knows?

Ginn, Satele, and our FB Reagen Mauia.

Satele is unbelievably athletic BTW, he reminds me of Mawai big time, just a big nasty athletic Samoan guy running all over the place.

True that, the Jets have suffered some terrible seasons recently as well, you know how it is, optimism and all that.

 

We didn't need to make a trade that was great for NE. As soon as they got Welker I posted on a couple of sites that it meant Thanksgiving was the over/under on the first loss, for both Indy and NE. I don't think it can be understated how valuable he is to them. And that impacts us for perhaps a half dozen years.

I'm not a cap guy so I may be missing the reasoning behind getting rid of Carter. But I've never been a fan of Matt Roth, as evidenced by many posts on Finheaven from '05 and early '06, so any move that increased our reliance on Roth was not a positive one, IMO.

Saban brought in guys to make sure the defense didn't fall off. Names like Roth, Daniels, Crowder and Allen. That's a 1, 2, 3 and 4, if my memory serves. Manny Wright was a 5. I'm probably forgetting others. So it's hard to fault Mueller when his former head coach invested nearly an entire draft's worth of picks on the defense but so far none of them have returned full value.

 

Well if you think you have a center of Mawai's caliber then congratulations. He'll anchor your line for years if he stays healthy. I'll concede that as a good move if he's truly as good as you say he is, the lines are always more important then the skill positions.

Yes, I know a thing or 2 about optimism. I'm optimistic every year and every game, but I can also see when things aren't going right (like now ). I just think Mueller is part of your problem just like our offensive and defensive coordinators are part of ours.

 

Really only Jason Allen and Rod Wright have amounted to very much for us.

 

I agree with you 100%. He got in a mess and it appears he hasn't been backed up much, but he keeps on keeping on and makes NO excuses or publicly downs his players for any reason.

 

I don't think you don't make a trade that adds value to your team because it also adds value to the other. Especialy when the value added to your team is in the form of a center, and the value to the other team is a slot receiver. I’m not dogging Wes here, I’m just saying that Samson is the far better fit for our team. If anybody else offered a 2nd for Wes and we choose the Pats over them, then yeah, you can question it. Nobody else was calling though.

Mueller was responsible for judging where all those players drafted by Saban were, and for making the necessary additions to correct deficiencies. He has the lion share of the responsibility for spending the money on Porter, and Holiday.

I’m not saying that Mueller should go. Just that he has made some decisions that Wayne should be asking for explanations about and telling Wanyne what steps are being taken to insure that they don’t happen again. The defense this year was the biggest disappointment that I can remember.

 

The roster isn't an excuse. It's THE reason. Under your logic, if we gave Cam Cameron a high school team, we should be 2-11 right now. That wouldn't happen.

 

A couple of points: Rick Spielman was a figurehead GM under Pornstache, it wasn't until his last year as GM that RS actually had full GM powers.

The samething goes for Mueller, Saban was/is a control freak of the first order.

BTW:If memory serves me correctly Meuller was also the figurehead GM in Seattle under Mike Holmgren.

Otherthen making the obvious deals and fitting a player under the cap, I don't see anything special about Meuller.

 

Not at all Desides. Cam has an NFL roster. Is it a great roster? Of course not. Is there enough there to make winning a game or two a reasonable goal? Absolutely!

You may be right about Cam. Maybe he is a great coach who has just had the worst luck in the history of the world, but not winning a game is unacceptable. I'm not asking him to make the playofs or win the SB with this team. I'm asking him to accomplish the basic task of winning one game.

I refuse to accept an 0-16 season as something ok b/c the roster sucks or we had injuries. When you make that excuse (and yest, it's an excuse, no matter how you want to spin it) then you can make an excuse for anything. I want an organization where it is unacceptable to go winless. Why is this a bad thing?

If you allow a coach/management team who fails to win one game to return you are tacitly admitting that the results don't matter. When you do that you start down a slippery slope towards a full fledged culture of losing. When you do that you become the Lions or Cardinals. It infects the players, the coaches, everybody. That's why results (wins) matter no matter how inconsequential they may be to draft position, etc.

Alot of posters have stated that the worst thing that ever happened to this team was the 6 game win streak in Saban's first year. That's wrong. It convinced the players that Saban knew what he was talking about. They bought in. And if Saban hadn't been a gutless punk, I believe he would've succeeded here. I believe that b/c I saw evidence that his way worked.

You want me to have faith that Cam's way will work, but I haven't seen the evidence. And neither have the players.

 

You're implying here that I'm saying it's okay to go winless. Absolutely not. I'm saying the culprit for going winless is not Cam Cameron. Huge difference.

 

i dont believe any thing i hear unless its a statement buy one of the players, owners or coachs

 

wtf do you want then man? We're 0-13, a first round playoff exit sounds like heaven right now. If you're holding out for the next lombardi, walsh, or belicheck...well, you'll be holding out for awhile

 

How is that possible again that all the shorcomings we have on this roster from years and years of bad drafting and personell moves are attributed to a GM that just finished one offseason of restructuring?

As for Cameron deserving no heat for this situation..... I'm not even going there.

As for the GM he made the choice to let ST players such as Travis Minor,Sammy Morris and David Bowans leave none of those players broke the bank and all contributed dramatically on ST and ah oh yea miamis ST this season has been as bad as the overall record.

In terms of his deconstruction of the offense and addition of Joey Porter none of these moves paid off, this team is not just bad its scary bad because there is no hope when the Cowboys of the 90's went 1-15 by the end of the season you could see the future was bright, this teams future is dark.