Ben Volen's notes from day #10 of Camp Thiggy v White is heating up

I also think we had everrette brown targeted and it was those bastard panthers who two years earlier they stole ryan kallil from us and we settled on samson satele I blame Sick. what i'll say with ireland he has alot of WTF picks. When we drafted Hartline almost everyone thought that was a bad pick and a reach. Most people were high on Reshad Jones but didnt think much of Carroll. merling, henne, p white, misi. i cant really complain aboout the 2nd rd track record. noone is 100% and though it couldve been better it also couldve been alot worse

 

most people wanted clint sintim. he did nothing his first year.

 

i know i did. And you're right, he was irrelevant.

 

At least they would have been taking a shot at a position of need, trying to fill a hole.... there's less to fault with that than there is using a high second rounder on a back up QB/gimmick player...

 

No one picked after White has done anything relevant. Except for Massaquoi. He would have been nice to have.

 

Haven't done anything yet

....and there were some decent OL prospects

 

Kordell was a QB who just happened to have some dynamic skills as a runner/WR, but he was a QB first. He had NFL size, footwork, and arm strength. That was a 75 yard bomb he threw to Westbrook to in Ann Harbor, cant remember the year but my point is Slash could sling it. His accuracy was shaky, but he was a serviceable everydown QB.

Pat lacks NFL size, footwork, arm strength and accuracy. He doesnt have the power to run through tacklers, the speed to run away from them, or the quickness to avoid them. It takes him an hour to get from under center, and he's too short to see over the line even when he does. Other than that he's pretty good.

My biggest problem with White is Henne and Thipen. MAYBE he could develop into a decent change of pace QB, anything is possible. But at what cost? It'll take a massive amount of coaching, scheming, practice time and practice reps to get him to that point, and from what I've seen the chances of success are negligible. Meanwhile, Henne and Thigpen, two young QB's with more skill and upside, who also need lots of further development, will be taking a backseat to the Pat expirement. It just doesn't make sense.

Taking the kid in the 2nd round was dumb, and that's not hindsight. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw Pat mocked to us in the second round on Draft Countdown. We'd never make a pick that silly, or so I thought. But what's done is done. At this point, the only thing left to do is admit the mistake and move on. He's the worst QB on the team, and he'd be the worst WR and/or KR as well. Leaving him on the 53 steals a roster spot from Pennington, McCoy, Procter, Grice-Mullen, Baker, Sheets before he got hurt, or some other player who has a chance to contribute this year or in the future. It sucks to have to cut a 2nd round pick, but it sucks even more to keep him on the roster when it's clear he doesnt belong.

 

You must spread some rep around before giving it to Jetssuck again

 

You could say the same about Pat White.

Yes, there were. But, they were either Tackle prospects or Max Unger. You would replace Long, Carey or Grove with a rookie?

 

Looking at who was taken 44-64, I'd rather have ANY of those guys, you pick one .

 

Agree with Ashraf. All those other guys get multiple years to prove themselves but White doesn't?

And picking solely because of need gets you no where in my opinion. With White they saw potential to redefine the game of football as we know it, a chance to create an entirely new facet of offense. If you aren't thrilled about the other prospects on the board, I have absolutely no problem with taking a risk on that in the second round.

 

I still think there's a place to have Pat lineup with Ricky and Ronnie in the backfield (or Ricky in motion) to run the option. Not really the wildcat, but Pat can still run it effectively, IMO, out wide. or run it wide and short pass to Ronnie or Fasano. I just don't want to see the little guy running up the middle.

 

Can you explain to me how on earth they saw this?

Was it his blazing speed? His ability to shake a tackle? His ability to pass better than anyone else on our roster? Change the game?....... I mean seriously. Their persistence in pushing the issue with White is crossing the line and getting too cute........not "changing the game of football"


And while picking solely because of need might not be the best idea.........it damn sure beats blowing a 2nd round pick taking a risk on a guy that many scouts felt should be moved to another position, in order to succeed in this league.

And White doesn't get multiple years because we can't afford to waste a roster spot on a player who is mostly just in the way and taking up valuable practice reps.


You wanna take the WC to the next level........ work on making Ronnie Brown a better passer

 

Solid depth at any of those positions would have given us better value...

 

IIRC that was Ike Taylor, a CB, who KO'd him, along the sideline. The option? C'mon man. If I'm a Fins opponent, I'm jumping for joy whenever Pat enters the game. Marshall is neutralized, Henne is on the bench. What more could a defensive coordinator ask for?

 

Ditto. If you'll remember though it was White's own decision to go without gloves - Sparano merely mentioned it to him and White decided it was some sort of personal quest to lose the gloves.

 

Todd and me wanted Connor Barwin. He had 4.5 sacks as a rookie reserve.

 

I've been expected Carroll to get that job if they don't give it to Cobbs. He's got some speed and is certain to be on the roster.

 

Good point. I'm not ready to give up on White- most Qbs take a few years to develop, we'll see what happens this year- at least he put on some weight. What I find really troublesome is his frequent inaccuracy in practice-that bothers me.

To this day I wonder if Parcells would have pulled the trigger on Tebow if he were available in the 1st rd. Despite the nearly constant dumping on Tebow in the year leading up to the draft, and given Parcells' unbridled enthusiasm when it came to Tebow, I really could have seen it happening. I still think that Tebow will prove to be a damn good NFL QB and he would have been a nearly perfect fit in the wildcat, Pat White or no Pat White. We could live without Jared Odrick despite the Merling injury, although I'm happy to have him. Marques Douglas and Charles Grant are pretty darned good, although both a bit long in the tooth. I wonder if Grant will be starting by the season opener given the way he's been playing.

 

Exciting news about Wake! I am excited about Wallace too... Imagine if the staff told him to step up and he could take the 5-spot, with that size and speed??? That would be awesome! Hey, it does happen...

 

I can't get behind the idea of a gadget player or a backup being selected that high. There's no way convincing me. You're right, it is what it is but it still makes no sense to me. I'd love to hear a reason for the selection of Pat White. I just don't think you can select situational role guys that high.

Assuming you last that long, yes I agree.

 

And what if White develops and becomes what this FO envisioned him to be?

 

There's no way for me to explain it to you because we both have different views of what we have seen out of Pat White. That's fine and to be expected, but the Pat White I saw in college was a pretty fast and elusive runner who became a better passer every year he played. That ability paired with the creative schemes we had seen developed by this staff in the past held the possibility for great rewards in my eyes, and the staff's eyes as well it seems. Unfortunately to this point, albeit with a very limited sample size, we have not seen either the ability or, in my opinion, the creativity from the coaching staff to realize this potential.

 

I'll eat Boomer's first born

 

A backup and gadget player? Still don't take that in the second round IMO.

 

In general, it's a faulty strategy to roll the dice with your most valuable picks because you feel you can make up for it somewhere else. Makes no sense, pads..

No.....it's irresponsible to take a gadget player/ back up with a high #2 and then top that off by wasting time trying to make him in to something he'll never be. A pro set QB...

As I have said before.......getting Smith that late was brilliant drafting (and a touch of luck that he slid that far), especially when we get Clemons as well. However, it doesn't erase the fact that they committed a draft day taboo in taking White that early.

No....it was a draft day taboo at the time and it's still a draft day taboo. No hindsight about it...

Which backs up what I said before...... you waste premium picks on players and the result is that you have to make up for it in the future. Had we taken Levitre, we'd have had that 3rd rounder this year that we spent on Jerry to get us a much needed TE. Which is why you can't just dismiss it, there are indeed consequences.

Ok I can agree to this..... but he'll need to make us a contender and not just "competitive", before he gets a pass for the picks and FA money he has wasted. Because those misses could be the difference.... and often are.

In my eyes, signing Brandon Marshall is his shining moment thus far and what has put me back on Irish's bandwagon. Altho I still think they missed the bus on Miles Austin. A guy they could have had with that 2nd rounder spent on White. And it's not hindsight when this FO knew more about him than anyone in the league......

 

Don't think of him as a backup, though. He's a player that should take the Wildcat to the next level.

Now, the way the FO is using him is the only problem for me. And I think he's done because his confidence is shattered, a la John Beck.

 

You'd really have to think that they thought he had the ability to be a conventional QB as well.



Swing and a miss.

 

He's still a backup/slash player.

It's tough to use the guy for something when he's not built for it. Maybe it'll change this year, who knows?

I'm sure they did but do you take a backup QB in the second round? I know he could be viewed as a slash player but the guy is not built to be a slash player IMO. He's not explosive. He may have been in college because of the offense he was in but not at this level IMO.

 

If that kid ever grows up only to find out that he/she was the number one candidate for the world's first streamed baby eating debacle, I swear they have a complex.

Poor bugger.






On a side note, is there anyway you could let slip where you plan to start? Arm, leg what have you. We have a pool going in the Luxury Box.

 

lol I know I don't but apparently they felt different.

Maybe they were wishfully thinking they'd end up in a Rivers/Brees scenario.

Who knows.