There's 10 other guys on offense besides a QB. Time to blame the FO for it's choices.

No he wasnt, the endzone replay showed Fasano Open and with one trail defender. Henne forced the ball into Bess. and, to be fair, just my opinion.

This has been the case all season long. I expect Henne to improve, I personally feel a new style OC that compliments what Henne does right is in order....then and only then will I feel more confident that he will improve, or more confident that he continues to make the same mistakes and for whatever reason doesnt trust what is there to attack.

 

That's my take as of today.

I think increase youth and speed on O, and new OC, can finish shinning up our guy......thats a realistic 4 year plan since 1-15. I am not opposed to seeing this new OC and new Oside drafted Speed succeed or fail all on Henne's shoulder. I will cut all ties if Henne cant change and improve following 2011 season.

I am also not willing to shy from saying Henne played a horrific game yesterday, and it didnt make me feel happy he played that way.

 

Jimmy Clausen v. Cleveland last week

16-28, 195 yards, 0 TD's 0 INTS. Team scored 23 points. Managed to not kill his team with 3 interceptions. You can do this kind of thing with every game. I brought up Fitzpatrick v. Henne against the Ravens and I was told by you amongst others that such a comparison wasn't valid.

 

I'd like to point out that marino's QB rating was in the high 70's over his last three seasons with the Fins... IMO, because the supporting case was not very good, not because Marino was all of a sudden a bad QB.

 

I think people overlook a mediocre rating when you've broken every passing record in the books. I don't see how anybody can say with any certainty that Henne will become a good QB in the NFL. That is a bigger mystery than ever at this point. I guess if blaming everything else makes everybody feel better more power to you.

 

I find that inconsistency frustrating. I'm not sure how you think it's funny. Rivers has already proven he's an NFL quarterback. A very good one. And notice on his 'bad' day he still didn't throw more picks than TDs.

 

I don't think I've seen anyone proclaim that Henne will be "good" or "great" or "elite". However, I have seen many people say that he won't be. If you think there is no way to tell if he's going to be the first three, how can they know he's going not to be?

Kind of a double standard, huh?

 

No, I wasn't describing an attack of my avatar. That was a couple of weeks ago and to be honest, I didn't even remember that it was you. You must have a thing for avatars because it was 'patsyland's avatar that you referenced in THIS thread.

So since you have a thing for avatars and monikers, I'll explain mine. I signed up for Finheaven back before time began as 72phins or 72dolphins or something like that. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that most things phins was a bad idea if you ever wanted to know who was talking to who. So shortly after I signed up I was sitting at the desk thinking I needed to change it. Superman was on the boob tube in the background. Thus you have "Zod". It was as simple as that. Sorry if I offend you with the "Ruler of the Universe" label under it. I think it's better than rookie or veteran that the website generates.

Contrary to your apology, I will not apologize for being thorough with my posts. YOU may know what I'm refering to in a given post. If so, the post probably was not for you. Or at least the detail in the post was not for you. But you will not see me apologize for saying something I know is right and taking it one step further by providing a source or sources that it originated. I do not think that is what the site is for. If you think the site is NOT for any educational purpose, I would suggest you take a further look at some of the posts around here.

If I see some baboon on here spouting off a bunch of crap, I don't hesitate to call them out. Why? I like this forum. Most of the people on this forum are very good conversation. But within every crowd, there is a moron. Even I find myself to be a moron some of the time during gameday threads. I indulge in that one luxury because it's not like anyone is spending any amount of time on their posts anyway. It's like tweets-quick hits that usually mean nothing. But if the poster/thread starter of crap needs to be called out - I'll be their huckleberry. No, it's not my job to police the site and I don't attempt to. Otherwise I would be a moderator or I would simply say, "You are a moron." But I do not do that.

Do I say some things that that may infer "you are a moron." Maybe, I don't know. I try to get your attention. Otherwise I would not bother posting. I don't know why anyone would post anything irrelevant. So if you are not posting anything irrelevant, are YOU not trying to get someone's attention?

I've done nothing in my posts that I have not done in person. I will sit down and rewind video ALL DAY with someone who will listen. If you have listened, I hope you have learned something. If you have not learned something and you do not like my demeanor - you should have me on ignore. I have someone on ignore IN THIS THREAD.

Just know this...... I ain't contributing to this site becoming a Finheaven and I don't want a bunch of morons that do contribute to it in that way. Silence only allows the moronic behavior to escalate. That's been my experience. You can go hide in "club". I'll stay right here and debate facts. When I have to hide, I'll just leave.

 

Here's my issue with your argument, Todd.

First, you claim that Henne was bad and you don't want to chastise him, yet you've done nothing but find other reasons on why it's not his fault. I mean every single throw, every single player, every single move, everything you have a blame for and criticized other than Chad Henne.

I'm a Henne fan, and I want him to be the guy. Truthfully, I don't know if there are many other options right now so we've got to develop him. But, I'm not going to turn my blind eye to the fact he played HORRIBLY yesterday. He was flat out HORRIBLE.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ca54e7/Haden-INT

I just want to hit on the deep ball one last time. First, my stance is that in no way is that Brian Hartline's fault and in every way it's Chad Henne's. The guy is wide open. You talk about Rogers in his face, you talk about the length of the throw. Why didn't he get the ball out earlier? Why wasn't he looking at him to begin with? You talk about how you're OK with the interceptions so long as he's being aggressive. Why wasn't he looking to Brian Hartline on a big play from the onset? Brian Hartline had him beat by four yards, 12 yards into the route. This was an instance, where it wasn't zone, it was single high coverage. He had exactly what he wanted. Henning got exactly what he wanted when he called the play, but Henne didn't pull the trigger. Even when he did, even when he waited until he was so wide, he didn't get him the ball.

I mean watch the play. He's staring at him the ENTIRE time. Why did wait to release the ball for so long? He had him beat early then kept that seperation. BTW, he stepped right into the darn throw, so don't tell me was unable to. Look at that throwing motion to every other throw he had and don't try to tell me in any way he was impeded by Shaun Rogers. There is no difference. So. He throws the ball from about the 18 yard line and it travels to the opponents 40 yard line. That is a 42 yd throw and with the throwing it to the sideline from the right hash adds 10 yards as you say, it's a 52 yd throw. You're telling me a QB can't make that?

You brought up Chad Pennington in a different thread, for some reason I have no understanding of, but since you did--look at him in 2008 and tell me he couldn't make that throw even with a bum shoulder. If that guy can throw it, so can Henne with a much better arm. It's about ACCURACY. And don't shove these 62% completion percentage stats down my throat. I get it. Henne isn't the worst when it comes to accuracy, but he has to be able to make those throws. Plain and simple. He should have gotten it out early, but he didn't. Lucky for him he still had ample protection and Hartline still created the separation, but instead he botched the throw. He did it in Buffalo too and he's done it time and time again. He has accuracy issues on deep balls.

Make all the comparisons you want, but none of them matter. He's got to improve and he's got to be better. He has weapons, more weapons than say a guy like Sam Bradford and other QBs have, but they're making the most of them. There is no doubt he's having some real confidence issues right now, whether he wants to admit that or not. There is no doubt the team is having some real confidence issues with him right now also whether they want to admit it or not--teammates and personnel.

Another issue is you talk about all the posters bashing Henne after a bad game and where were they when he did well, like in Oakland last week. The same can be said for your indictment on the WRs. They were able to get open against man coverage on what's considered a pretty darn good Oakland secondary. Hartline and Bess consistently found ways to get open, even against Nmandi. Now, they face zone coverage where all they are expected to a hole, which Bess is one of the best at, and now they're garbage and he has no weapons. I'll give you it's tough to be successful when Hartline is out in the 2nd half. What about the 1st half though? That's where he stunk the most. I don't understand how you bash every OTHER player besides the QB, every OTHER personnel person other than the player, when it's pretty clear, cut and dry that he needs to be better.

 

Yes, it's been established. You blame everyone but Chad Henne. A fact that provides for no merit for any of your other accusations. It's gotten so bad that you should really contemplate placing the name "Chad Henne" in the place of a person you are discussing before you say anything about anybody. At least then we will know that you actually gave THEIR circumstance two cents worth of consideration.

 

In response to the first post: I disagree completely about Brian Hartline. While he's no Marshall I think he's done a pretty good job. He didn't look very overmatched when he was five yards ahead of any DB yesterday sprinting towards the end zone. You can post stats all day long but saying things like that will not help your argument. Nobody is saying he's a superstar but Hartline is certainly effective. Especially against teams without top tier secondaries.

 

After a VERY slow start, Brian Hartline has been very good. He's created nice YAC plays, and I've seen him consistently get open down the field this year only to be over thrown or not given an opportunity to make a play on the ball. I think he can be a nice player for us along with Marshall and Bess. I like that trio and I think this FO does too.

 

Honestly, as much as I want to make excuses for Henne, it was mostly his fault Sunday. He had two bonehead interceptions and wildly inaccurate passing. At the end of the day the score should have been higher, the Hartline throw was severely underthrown when if thrown perfectly or a little overthrown should have been a TD and the other one was just poor judgement.

In the offseason a few things need to happen,
Henne needs to work on Cover 2 defense.
He needs another receiver, last game finally showed me that.
He needs a second TE.
He needs to get more consistent.
He needs competition.

 

I agree and also like Hartline, a lot. I think he's very underrated and a lot faster than people give him credit for. However, a more experienced WR would have either caught that ball, gotten the PI call, or knocked it down. There was just too much time to react and Hartline didn't.

 

Henne HAS to get better. He MUST be able to read coverages and understand he must ANTICIPATE he WRs opening up in them.

I think our WRs are good. Marshall, Hartline, and Bess comprise three good options. Fasano is a nice TE option. I think if Henning is still around, and I don't see anyway that is possible, we MUST get a 2nd TE. We can't continue running two TE sets and only have one option there. No David Martin or a threat like Martin is hurting us in 2010 like 2009. I think with those 3 options at WR you can continue to develop a Roberto Wallace or a Marlon Moore.

I think the biggest upgrade has to be at RB. I'd like to see us keep Ronnie Brown and pick up a RB that can catch and has that "home run" ability.

 

He was getting old and the rules were different then. The DBs could basically arse-rape the wr's down the field. Marino with these rules would have had 60 Tds.

 

Salmon patties, grits, and green beans......

You suckers don't know what your missing.

 

I just don't agree with that assessment. I mean watch the video. As soon as Hartline identifies the ball is in the air (when he looks back), he recognizes it's underthrown and makes the necessary adjustment to come back. The problem is that the ball is thrown on a line with little air underneath allowing him to "go up and get it". Also, Haden is beaten SO BADLY, that he is on a dead sprint tracking the ball. Those PI calls you're looking for those happen in two instances--where the DB can't locate the ball, whether he has him covered or doesn't. In this instance the ball isn't thrown like the one to Marshall in Buffalo, where he allowed Marshall to stop and come back (only to drop it), or against the Jets where he allows him to go up and get it. It's a ball with little air and gives the WR absolutely no chance to get it.

I just don't understand. This is a case where I wish we had someone in the meetings, or we could tweet a writer to ask because I HAVE NO DOUBT IN MY MIND--ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the coaching staff attributes that as a poorly thrown ball and on Chad Henne and not Brian Hartline.

 

Dude, you've taken what he said and completely passed over the missed opportunities and turned it into, well we don't have players that are capable of making those plays. When in fact, you completely miss over the fact that when we have the opportunity, whether 50 times a game or 3 times a game, he isn't MAKING THE PLAY.

That's the interesting point of his post--not that we don't have the players. If we didn't have the players we'd never get those shots. Also, if we don't have the players to get those plays, then our OC is doing a damn fine job of calling plays against the defense to put those players in those position to get the opportunity of a big play.

I mean...just completely passing over the fact here.

 

Dunno why I feel like eating extra hot sauce while reading this thread. Maybe to make it more enjoyable

 

TP, I see Henne failing to get the ball to OPEN receivers game after game after game. So I cant claim we dont have the necessary receivers running routes of various depths not getting open. They are open. What I cant do is explain why Henne is Gun Shy and not Gun Slinger. I am laying a fair ciritque at Henne. I want more speed and Offensive youth around him; but he is not holding up his end of the bargain week in and week out. He is inconsistent and while some could be what type of defense he is seeing; I still think - more than you apparently - that Henne is unsure of what is his best option. I was hoping following the OAK game he would take a more consistent look DEEP down field. I can live with INTS that are in essence PUNTS. I was upset for HIM that he failed to hit Hartline in the Endzone on the first series who was behind the defender. Same with the Deep sideling route with his existing WR getting over 5yrds on defender...both underthrown by Henne (regardless if you want your WR to HELP the QB). And the one to Bess who had a step on his man, he threw as if he said "I will be damned if I am going to UNDER THROW a 3rd open receiver" and that concerns me. Can he not judge who he is throwing to, or Depth of touch?

And analysis of who was in who's kitchen and pushing him back into Henne's pocket, etc; doesnt change the fact that replays consistently show Henne hesitating, flinching, to just LET IT GO. Something is happening between his ears like he is THINKING and not just SLINGING it.

All in all, I really want Henne to be our guy.....I hope we add massive speed and youth on Offense and fill any hole you see us as having and limiting Henne....and if we grab a proper OC and install an aggressive/innovative offense I am ready to put it all on Henne's shoulder. But he has significant areas of improvement between now an then that has nothing to do with other parts around him.

I hope you agree.

 

i dont buy the argument that if henne fails its because ccoaches ruined him. same argument was made about Beck and its just as false. The vast majority of QBs succeed or fail due to their own abilities or inabilities. The few instances I have seen of QBs possibly getting ruined were those that played behind horrible offensive lines like Davod Carr in Houston or Ken O'Brien in New York. And even those two I'm not sure were ruined. O'Brien had a halfway decent career and David Carr hasnt done anything since. Basically you are going to rise and fall on your own ability

 

Also the idea that a Henning offense is bad for a QB is false if you go through his track record. Once he got to Washington and on to the present the majority of his mediocre QBs have had seasons that were generally better than their career ratings which would indicate that his offense is QB friendly. Theismsn, Doug Williams, Vinny Testeverde, Jake Delhomme and Chad Pennington had pretty decent years under the guy when you compare them to their career averages so its hard to make the argument that its the coaching that is hurting Henne. The more likely argument is he isnt superman and is just progressing at a slower pace than most would like

 

I agree that crucifying him for one game isn't valid. I do not think it is just one game for the reason to crucify him.

He played a horrible game, which was even more disappointing because he played pretty darn good against the Raiders.

I am not of an opinion whether he should get another shot or not. To me it would all depend on who replaces him. I do think getting some speed in the backfield will help and hopefully they will get him a pass catching tight end.

 

With two accurate passes he has pretty great stats for one half of football.