Sounds like to me that Sparano is done and he knows it....

You've thrown out every excuse in the book for Chad Henne, but have cleverly not given Thigpen any excuses at all. Chad Henne has had all of his players at his disposal, time to prepare. He's a third year player and two year starter. And he still stinks.

I'm not enamored with Tyler Thigpen like most. However, I'm all for playing him, see what there is, and maybe we deal him, keep him, whatever. We know what we've got in Chad Henne.

I'm just so tired of unfair and subjective viewing when it comes to players. Use the same darn philosophy with all players.

 

If that's not hypocritical!! Practice what you preach Mr. "unfair viewing". "Unfair" is judging a guy when there's a 3 year curve in the NFL for a reason. Unfair is judging a guy who's had an incompetent OC who is about to get fired. Unfair is judging a QB who has a surrounding cast who do NOT fit to his arm, ability, and skill set.

A. Where do you get "Henne has had all of his players at his disposal and time to prepare"?.... Respectfully, are you watching the same season the rest of us are? Has he had a 2nd offseason to address how defenses have adjusted to him (zone coverage) so he can actually prepare for and improve that aspect of his game?..... or do you feel that he has adequate time to do this during the season in between playing games and preparing for the upcoming opponent?

and B. You want to discard a YOUNG Henne despite ALL the problems at offense (Oline, ground game, WR, TE, Henning) but it's ok to give Thigpen a shot who has looked like an abomination compared to Henne. That's unfair and subjective. Practice what you preach please.


I'm not making ANY excuses for Henne. I never have and I never will. The difference between you and I is that you unreasonably expect a 2nd year starting QB to play like an established veteran through ALL this year's crap and inconsistency.... and you also believe that the QB can make chicken salad out of chicken **** if he's good enough, when in fact it's the surrounding cast who ALLOW the QB to reach (or prevent from reaching) whatever potential he's destined for...... and while I'm at it, you also feel that a young QB should be good enough to carry a team on his shoulders when he has no ground game, inconsistent protection, and serious problems for half the year at WR while having ZERO #2 TE. Oh, but you'd probably give Peyton Manning a pass just b/c he's proven himself before hand when his surrounding cast was intact. When has Henne ever had his cast intact <and strong> to provide you with a baseline for your argument against him?

When announcers say "Fans give too much credit to the QB when they win and entirely too much blame when they lose", they're referring to people like you.

For the record, please tell me during the past few months where I've said that Henne is an all world QB who's about to light up NFL secondaries. I don't say that. All I do is argue against people who are prematurely and overly critical about a QB when there are entirely TOO MANY unanswered variables in the equation. I also argue against naive fans who believe that franchise QBs grow on trees, when in fact there is VERY LITTLE option for a legitimate upgrade next year. There are major question marks about FA QBs and Carson Palmer...... and there are major question marks regarding QBs via the draft outside of Luck. Everyone has their torches and pitchforks out chanting for Henne's head....... and then when they get their wish and are clamoring for joy, they get that head-scratching moment like "Crap, what did we just do?!..... "We were so focused on getting rid of the guy that we never thought about how much worse it could get." <once they see that the available prospects are a potential downgrade from Henne>.

 

No but in each year after lighting stuck and Parcells was running the show tell me where we are better? Honestly some pieces have gotten better while other pieces have gotten worse and or just not addressed. The team lacks any identity. They can't run the ball with Ronnie and Rick, They cant pass with Bess and Marshall, Wildcat aint working anymore.

Special teams is Horrible in 3 years we broke 2 touchdowns I believe and both were against the Jets with Ginn. (might be wrong but I cant remember anything special about them!?) Were still looking for the elusive QB, every year we tweak the Oline and it gets worse, We hire a 90year old GOOD OL BOY to run a 2010 Offense, Our head coach calls timeouts in stupid positions and NEVER overrules a stupid WC play when we have all the momentum in the world.

Our Defense is improving thank you Nolan one bright spot, and we got lucky he got released otherwise we would have 4 wins.

Listen Sparano is a nice guy but hes lost the team he needs to go and a cleaning needs to happen. Keep Nolan and clean up. Next year we need an Oline, a running back, a QB, defensive backs, and a whole new special teams unit. This is all under Sparanos watch.. Hes the captain an his ship is sinking.

Im hoping the SS Cowher comes into town.

 

For me, QB is an IMPORTANT position. If there are some question marks surrounding the play, the last thing I'm gonna do is get scared, close my eyes, and toss a dart in the air hoping it miraculously hits a bullseye. So many members think you just throw a 1st rounder at a QB and BOOM, you got yourself a franchise QB. Ain't happenin like that. You take them in the mid rounds to compete with your QB until you find the guy you REALLY want; you don't just use a 1st round pick on a QB b/c you're desperate for a franchise QB. That's a great way to waste a pick and set yourself back even further.

There is absolutely no one in this draft or FA who screams "upgrade over Henne" except for Luck. There are concerning question marks everywhere. Lucky for us, QB isn't the only problem so we can still work on fixing the offense w/o potentially wasting a 1st round pick, and we can continue to fix it till THAT guy jumps out at us who shouts "OK, we're moving up 10 spots to grab this kid b/c we feel strongly that he's the future of this organization!".

Hell, half this board can't even figure out who this "supposed" first rounder is. Many people are like "well let's just take whichever guy falls to us in the first". Some like Mallett, some hate him.....others love Newton while some don't like him at all..... then you got Locker whom people either love or hate....... Ponder is a question mark....... and Devlin is far from a given. So let's go. Pick one. I guarantee you this board will not come to an agreement on one of these guys. That alone should say a lot about what we should do----- which is wait till the following year.

I'll stick with Henne till "THAT" guy comes along. His 2 year's of experience, with an improved offense and new OC, will most likely give us the best chance at success (in 2011 or 12) over any rookie not named Luck.

And believe it or not, I'd trade Henne, Odrick, and next year's first to Carolina for Luck...... and then I'd spend this entire draft giving Luck the proper surrounding cast (which this team currently doesn't have).

 

Joe Webb (Vikings) was a 6th rounder. Anyone want him over Henne? Gotta throw that out there since the game is on.

 

i totally agree with you todd. but lets get on topic with the thread title. what do you think about sparano. i like the guy and can use the same arguments to keep him another year as you have used to keep henne for now. one things for sure, we need a new OC and that's one reason i'm all for a change in coaches specially after hearing the high praises Sparano has given to Henning and saying he wants him back next year. If Sparano stays he better change his mind about Henning or i hope Henning retires. Are first step in the right direction is a new OC and that's why i vote for a coach change. But Cowher is the only guy i would want at this moment.

 

I wanted him for the WC 2.0 role ala Brad Smith with the NYJ, he would have come cheaply as well.

 

Yes, definitely MUCH better than a 2nd round pick for the role.

 

I agree with you.... and it's a valid point about using the Henne argument as a reason to keep Sparano around.

I look at it 2 ways:

1. we get a new OC and see how Sparano does with 2 years of experience under his belt (provided that he gets on board with a new OC to begin with). He'd have to be open to change and alter his philosophy for me to feel comfortable with him though. His "playing for a FG" mentality shouldn't be enough to cut it. I'm not sure if a guy can flip his switch that easily though from "ultra-conservatism" to "attacking" & "dictating the game" (rather than letting the D dictate it to you). This conservative crap might be ALL that he knows. If that's the case, then I want him gone.

2. Fire him IF my ducks are in a row regarding his replacement. If we can't find a stud replacement, then I'd give him one probation year b/c I'd hate to bring in some ego-maniac who tries to flip this franchise upside down to put his stamp on it, only to run it into the ground and get canned 13 games later.

The defense is taking care of itself with Nolan. If we can get the offense to do the same thing under a great OC w/o conservative Sparano butting his stache in, then we could potentially be ok IMO. If we had a different OC and an upgraded offense (even with Henne) we'd be headed for the playoffs right now, so it can't all be rotten eggs.

 

Yeah if he is here next year I expect an exact repeat of the past two years. I think there is still a glimmer of hope for.henne. But it won't happen under tony. I like the guy but I think he needs to be OC first.

I blame parcells for only hiring people he most recently worked work

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

i concur. but if Sparano gets replaced, who do you want as our next head coach and OC? i would be happy with Cowher and i don't want to get rid of Nolan. i wouldn't be opposed to Nolan being the head coach/DC. Nolan might even be good for the offense since he's so good at defense he should be good at attacking opposing defense's weaknesses.

out of all the possible scenario's i can think of: i hope we get a new OC and we keep Nolan. If Sparano stays, he better be smart enough to get a good OC and if we get a new head coach he better be smart enough to keep Nolan as our DC.

 

Well, I think some people would be happy if he were fired, but my take on Sparano is this:

He develops talent, of all of his flaws, we simply have to have a Coach who takes that seriously or we will be occupying the Bills position in the AFC in 3 yrs, it is the only way we can compete continously.

Here is why:

-Patriots will have 10 picks in the draft for as long as they want to have 10 picks.
-The Jets think nothing of writing huge checks, they literally land every FA they want
-the Bills are bad enough that they draft Top 12? Meaning they will be manned with tremendous athletes and they appear to have found their Qb in Fitzpatrick.

If the Clemons, Jones, Bess's, Wake, Nolan Carroll's are not continously identified, acquired and coached up we are back to the Wanny Era, meaning "if" the traditional draft produces 2 starters, we will lose out when the Pats can triple draft for the same position, when the Jets can open their checkbooks and when the Bills stock pile high round talent that sooner or later, will produce.

For me, whether Henne busts out, or becomes the guy, Sparano's ability to coach players up and Ireland's ability to find them, is just crucial.

Look at the Defensive Starters, aside from Vontae Davis and Dansby, not one is a first round pick, look at the Jets or Patriots Defenses..and look for the #1 picks among the starters that is a sort of Talent Race we face for the next 3 yrs at least.

 

Agreed. But he is going to be fired because of it.

 

I infer from this that Ireland is the one who should be on the chopping block.

 

Who is 'giving'? Because that is a person who must be accountable. Whoever is choosing to sign, bench, cut, draft particular o-linemen. Whoever is failing to use them and develop them properly (See Shaun Murphy, Donald Thomas, John Jerry and anyoneone else who showed promise only to be replaced by street free agents or just get cut outright... much of which could be the coaching staff's inability to correctly assess or properly nurture the talent Ireland provides them.. or it could be Iurealnd's gaffe).

ANYONE could see jake Long was a great Olineman. Outside of that, it's been an utter failure along the line.

 

I do agree with this. But, despite the record, we aren;t even playing like a mediocre team down the stretch (when it counts most). We are playing embarassing football. That ending to the game was humiliating for me to endure as I sat with a friend who is a Bills fan. Is that the fan experience we should expect? Because it's been more frequent than it has any business being.

You may be right about Sparano, but the way this team is losing is something many fans, myself included, simply cannot emotionally endure anymore.

Probably a poor basis for a decision, but I am sure Ross wants to grow the fan base, not diminish it.

 

I hate to say it, but this is a huge relief to hear.

 

This HAD been what I was hoping, as I always liked Sparano's personality. And loyalty... but this year I have seen him loyal to the point of running a roster full of players' hopes into the ground. He STILL didn;t want to fire Bonamego after all the disasters that CLEARLY showed he needed to go. CLEARLY. Sparano did not want to fire him, but HAD to. That made me question this guys judgement. Players are breaking their ASSES trying to win out there and you won;t make a move that needs to happen? As a player I'd start wondering what the effing point was if the coaches weren;t accountable but *I* was always blamed for execution.

Then came the weekly embarrassing losses where Henning would act arrogant and sarcastic if criticized, as if it couldn;t be his fault, and he and Sparano would continually say player execution was to blame.

Clearly Sparano is still protecting Henning... yet it's okay to tell your players through the media that THEY are screwing up.

I am sorry but either Sparano is clueless about how bad his own staff is sometimes and can;t see the forest for the trees (so needs to go) or he DOES see it but holds players to a different stanadard and blames them while letting coaches get off without accountability (in which case coaches will never be forced to improve, if not accountable, and AGAIN SParano needs to go).

I'm sorry Tony, I loved you once, man, but this insane delusional loyalty to poorly performing coaches has me wanting you gone.

 

I agree that Ross has to be conscerned about Dolphins revenue (ironic after his 'cheapo cost cutting' measure he instituted that now he will lose more money... but that's a nother story).

I won't watch a coaching staff that has this approach to football as it's ugly, unsatisfying and emotionally unpleasant to watch.

I'm cancelling my NFL ticket next year because there is no way I spend 300+ bucks supporting something I don;t feel deserves my money. Hell, even my time is getting harder to justify.

something must renew our hope in a major way, or Ross will lose a lot of revenue, imo.

 

no one should be on the chopping block. we're one or two offensive linemen away from the playoffs. That is about as easy to find as can be. Stay the course, don't panic. This instant gratification mentality will wreck this franchise if its allowed. ireland has built a young defense into championship caliber. now he can concentrate on the offensive side. the oline should be upgraded and we need to add some vet QB just in case Henne doesnt turn the corner next year but that is so easy to find that there is no reason to change course now

 

Especially after resisting firing Bonamego after his disastrous time here.

And after henning openly criticized Chad Henne... yet Henning is beyond reproach.

 

agreed and if its not fixed next year then we should consider finding a new GM but I dont think that will be the case. Ireland took a calculated risk by finding talented but
injury prone linemen in 2008. Unfortunately, both Grove and Smiley both broke down and we were back at square one. 2010 we concentrated on shoring up ILB and WR in FA and fixed the offensive line on the cheap with duct tape and wire. We are in a position now where we can go out and land the best available OG or C in FA. As much as I would love a GM to hit on everything all at once, it almsot never happens. He will have to fix it this year. Since he doesnt have other priorities there are no excuse to not fix the oline. I see no reason yet to suspect he wont be able to. I mean how tough is it to offer Logan Mankins the biggest check available?

 

Talent is partially the GM, partially how well the staff develops and uses its players. Randy Moss was the same player on the Raiders as he was a year later on the Patriots, as an example of a staff using and motivating a player properly.

More importantly, you must develop and get the most out of young talent. The Patriots are talent laden not because they have a secret map to an endless pot of draft gold, but because a player who enters that ortganization has a better chance of being well coached and getting BETTER than a player who goes to teams with worse coaching staffs.

I still firmly believe that this staff has done a piss poor job of ever improving ANY offensive player on this team. I see our defensive players developing and improving, but VERY little out of our offense.

Jake Long, Davone Bess, Chad Pennington, Brandon Marshall were all very high performers who have continued to show the same abilities here. But any of the mediocre players we have... Oline, Tight Ends, wide receivers, Quarterbacks have either SHOWN UP with talent or simply not gotten much better.

To me Ireland is part of the issue, but our coaching staff's ability to IMPROVE our offensive players is a bigger problem.

 

Gruden burns through QBs the way Sparano burns through OLinemen. lol. At least Gruden is entertaining to watch though. Hell, if GRUDEN can;t get some production out of this offense then no one can though, He IS a QB-minded guy and we do have a major issue at QB. Actually, to me, he refuses the dol[phins job if offered because he wouldn;t want to inherit Chad Henne, imo.

 

he can also win regardless of who his QB is... something we could sorely use a little of around here.

 

this is going to be the ultimate test for Ross. I suspect he's a buffoon but this will be the first year he actually makes a decision. This is very similar to the New York Giants situation with Tom Coughlin. The New York media was fanning the flames of firing Coughlin after his third year and the fans were growing impatient. But New York ownership went against public sentiment and stayed the course. Result: Super Bowl victory in 2007

 

Would it concern you, if you were Ross, and Sparano said he really thought it'd be good to keep Henning?

 

they have struck out quite alot in the past few years developing that so called talent. they hit again this year but if you go back the last few years before that they werent drafting well and their record reflected that. Granted, for the Patriots, not making the Super Bowl is a poor season but still.

I would agree about our coaching staff and developing players. I am not sold on the oline coach, wr coach, and qb coach. Still I havent really seen our castoffs light up the league elsewhere so it seems the fundamental problem is talent not development

 

Sign me up.

 

Well, it could be a couple possibilities:

1) GMs are sometimes better at assessing certain positions and not as good at others. It's possible Ireland is better with assessing defensive players than offensive ones.

2) I feel like it's a 50/50 proposition on allocating responsibility for developing talent. IN fact, even the Offensive Coordinator can have an effect. If a very talented tight end plays with an OC who chooses to keep him in to block a lot, he won't make the Pro Bowl, post huge stats or make highlight-reels... and public perception will be that that player, perhaps drafted in a high round, didn't live up to his 'talent' level. Didn;t 'develop'. This is similar to the concept of teams 'showcasing' players before trades. PLaycalls and how players are utilized can either highlight the talent we have, or leave it hidden on the roster. So to me, coaching has TWO effects: do the position coaches properly teach and develop the skill sets of the players, and do the co-ordinators maximize the use of said skill sets to 'showcase' the roster's talent, or is it lying fallow and underutilized.

It may not be all Jeff ireland. It may be part Jeff Ireland.

 

This..... definitely.

 

I'd think Gruden would enjoy handing Chad's nuts back and seeing if he can get him to come alive.

 

If we got Gruden I wouldnt mind keeping Henne.

I think Gruden would give Chad the mental toughness he lacks to play the position. Ecspecially if it was an unwritten rule that Gruden came in to be the HC but basically ALL the defensive decisions were Nolans.

 

Yes, the situations are exactly the same.

Oh wait, Coughlin actually got his team into the playoffs all 3 years while breaking in a rookie QB. And the biggest problem for Coughlin was that players thought he was too tough and he had to change his ways. When he did, they responded.

These players already like playing for Tony yet they still lose. Not a good combination for the head man

 

I think that is the next step in Sparano's evolution, and imho a part of the reason for the losses at home, Sparano works these guys a ton and imho expects them to work when they go home, when we are on the road there is no access to facilities so there can be no expectation to work ever harder on the road as there is no place to work.

Eh, to me, they want to win, they do not know how to win..yet.

CBS had a graphic during Sunday's game..Defense had dropped a mind boggling 20 interceptions this yr, time and experience will flip that stat into our favor.

 

first he didnt make the playoffs his first year. second he inherited a team that was three years removed from the super bowl not a 1-15 team. the expectations were completely different and the distance to get his team to the playoffs was miniscule compared to what we had to do. as for rookie QBs, they had a number one we have a 2nd rounder. thats not coaching thats talent. we need one more offseason of talent acquisition on the offensive side. the coaching is irrelevant

 

David Gugs did more with the Giants Oline than he has done in Miami though Adamp, that is something else Sparano has to come to grips with, to many chefs around the same pot will ruin the stew..Sparano inability to deal with the offensive line properly is the largest black mark, legitimate one, in his time in Miami so far.

We made the playoff with NDukwe and Alleman at G, and Satele at C, now we cannot run the ball for 4yds a pop...

Would love to see Kevin Gilbride land in Miami,

 

We've gone from 5-3 at home year one, to 4-4, to now 1-6. There is no reason for such regression with a team that is supposedly "good".

 

The coaching is far from irrelevant. We have talent on offense. We're not the Eagles, of course, but we have good players. This staff has done a piss poor job of developing offensive talent. With the exception of Jake Long, most of the offensive players have regressed or not progressed.

NE is great, not because they always pick more talented guys, they are rgeat because they develop the guys that they have into their system and maximize what they do well. Danny Woodhead is not a very talented player and would suck on most teams. Yet he has a role on NE.

We fail to do that.

 

Win what? Even 3 years ago when they were 13-3 they were shown the door at home in their first playoff game! The guy is burnt and it shows!