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A postive Chad Henne Thread..for Christmas

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I do believe I have made my thoughts on Chad Henne quite clear, however those are my thoughts and opinions, so for fun and to have something positive to discuss about Chad Henne, here is a comparison of Chad Henne and Jim Kelly and Trent Edwards in their Second Years as starting Qb's in the NFL:

    Chad Henne:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HennCh01.htm

    Yr #2: 2,950 yds/14 Td's/14 int's/Int % 3.7/Td % 3.3/YA 6.9 61%

    Interesting thing about Chad Henne is his stats are up across the board from 2009.

    Jim Kelly yr #2

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm

    Yr #2: 2780 yds/19 Td's/11 int's/ int% 2.6/TD % 4.5/YA 6.7 completion % 59%

    The thing about Kelly is he had 2 yrs in the USFL before signing in Buffalo and his numbers are better than Chad Henne's but aside from TD to Int ratio, not noticeably.

    Trent Edwards:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EdwaTr01.htm

    Yr #2: 2699 yds 65% completions/ 11 Td's/10 int's/Td % 2.9/ Int % 2.7/ YPA 7.2

    Interesting thing about Edwards is all of his stats were up across the board as well in his second yr.


    Hmm, my conclusion over such a head to head comparison is Statistics are NOT a determining factor when looking at Qb's in Yr #2, in fact Trent Edwards had statistically improved in 2008 and yet be 2010 he was waived in season wereas with Jim Kelly the Bills just stuck with him without question as his TD to Int ratio was never what would be considered great, and his completion percentage was typically below 60%.

    Moving forwards, for Chad Henne, it would seem to me that he could go either way, Edwards wound up being scared in the pocket in 2009 and it carried over into 2010 so much so Chan Gailey cut ties with him, Kelly was known for his toughness but typically would miss games in his career in Buffalo and 7 of his 10 yrs in Buffalo he did not play 16 games.

    Hmm, looking ahead, the key for Chad Henne, what would separate him from Edwards and move him into the Jim Kelly area (which is who he reminds me of) is sheer toughness Henne has to be willing to absorb the shots that are going to come his way and continue to play at his normal level, over 60% completions, right at 7 ypa, but he has to improve his Td to Int ratio, the good thing about that is those are factors Henne himself can control.
     
  2. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I think there may too much focus on Henne's stats.

    These guys have all been around long enough to know that if often takes time for QB's to mature.

    But I think the problem here may be something not quite so tangible. I think the staff sees flaws that may be fatal. Hurdles that Henne just may not be making any progress in conquering, even if he's made solid progress in other aspects of his game.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Typically I despise "Stat Monkery" with little dweeb squirrels crunching numbers and pronouncing so and so is a good player, so and so is a bad player, however Head to Head comparisons are a different matter as they numbers say what they say, in this case I think you are correct in that what the coaches think about Henne's game is more important than the stats.

    My conclusion though, is based on watching both Kelly and Edwards play, Kelly was just a tough tough guy, Edwards, not so much, so to me that will be the determining factor for Chad Henne, the Bills player intimated that maybe Henne was starting to drop his eyes on the passrush due to his knee injury, if that is true Henne won't make it imho, if it is not true then Henne will more than likely develop as his problem is not accuracy.

    As long as a Qb is accurate as well as tough, they can play in the NFL imho.

    The other interesting thing to consider is a Chad Henne to Kerry Collins comparison does not hold water...at all, Collins was consistently less accurate than Chad Henne has been in Miami.
     
  4. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I agree. I`ve been saying all along that Henne just doesnt have IT . And that two letter word covers a lot of ground. I didnt choose to not like him as our QB,his play brought on that mind set. So,if somewhere down the road I start to believe in him its because he improved greatly. Contrary to popular belief its not fun bashing the QB of my team but I`m VERY doubful he has what it takes.
     
  5. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    From a Jets fan. He's not that bad. Merry Christmas, everyone!

    sent from my EVO 4G
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, my premise in comparing him to Kelly is:

    -Henne can take the beating a 3 wide base offense will send his way.
    -Henne can become more efficient at using the Shotgun offense.

    Henne in a Mike Martz system inow as Henne as a drop back, read the field, make great decision Qb is not a very good proposition moving forwards.
     
  7. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    My only issue with this is that one group may find "fatal flaws" with Henne and another group my find obstacles that are challenging but not fatal. This regime is obviously looking for a player with certain skill sets, ones that Penny clearly has, and have tried to make Henne develop into. The fatal flaws may be that Henne does not fit their system very well and trying to force him will only damage him further. I hold little credence to Parcells parting shots to Henne just for that reason. If he is seeing issues and relying on GOBN crony Henning for his eval then that, to me is a flaw. Henne may be crap, I think it's too early to tell but I'd like to see him in a different system.
     
  8. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I love positive threads and think that sometimes we focus too much on the negative after a loss (myself included).

    I have recently looked at Henne's college clips and I think that he has tremendous talents and skills, and he is improving in the NFL. Unfortunately our current QB coach is trying to make him one dimensional and his natural abilities conflict that.

    Here's hoping that Henne continues to develop and improve and that he has a different QB coach next year. If this were my team David Lee would be out the door five minutes after the last game ends. I think that Chad deserves better. We all do.
     
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  9. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    I have a far bigger problem with the regression of our running game than with Henne.
     
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  10. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Padre, Pro Football Reference also lists league averages in various categories. Here are the year-by-year figures for passing.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

    Context helps because passing proficiency in the NFL keeps going up. By modern standards all QB stats from the 70s look pretty lousy. Henne's completion percentage would have regularly led the league in Bob Griese's time; this year, it's just 14th.

    In context, Kelly's numbers are better than they look. Average rating in 1987 was 72-something; now it's about 10 points higher. Kelly was the 11th rated QB in football in 1987; in 2010 the same numbers would put him 20th. Henne's rating this year would put him in the top half of the NFL in 1987; in 2010 he's 25th.

    You've compared 2010 Henne to 2005 Frerotte, but passing proficiency in the NFL has gone up even in the last five years. In 2005 Frerotte was the 28th-rated QB in football, which is bad enough, but in 2010 he'd be 30th with the same numbers.

    None of this means Henne is hopeless. Statistics can never prove that. (In 1970 Terry Bradshaw was the lowest-rated quarterback in football.) But what they can show that Henne as a passer now is not even on the same planet as second-year Jim Kelly.
     
  11. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Hello Football Ana-lyst

    Merry F*%kin' Christmas!

    Chad Henne can suck my balls

    And give some to the MISS-Esss...
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No offense meant Bro, but that sort of down to the minutae Stat sifting does not serve the discussion well as then there are all sorts of factors that then play into the discussion, surrounding players, weather, competition, injuries, schedules.

    As for Griese's time in the NFL, if one thinks about it, passing attacks in that era were more designed to go down the field on long passes rather than the pass being a substitute on running plays, the screen pass being the modern equivalent of the toss sweep for example.

    Henne is in a interesting place stats wise, he could go either way, Edwards or Kelly, and I included Kelly simply because he was never a graceful Qb, he was a very tough Qb which would seem to be one of Henne's attributes unlike Edwards, who had a high completion percentage, and a solid YPA average, but lacked that toughness to become more than a good backup in the NFL.
     
  13. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    If people are going by Hennes completion percentage to make a point on how accurate he is
    One only has to watch a game and view Henne in action.

    Henne's completed passes are all over the place,Henne's touch passes are all over the place,
    How many times have you seen Henne hit someone in stride for a 20-40 yard plus pass?

    Stats might say one thing but your eyes say another watching him play
     
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  14. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Chad Henne has became for lack of a better term a pu--y. I attribute it too poor coaching methods and the lack of mental toughness.

    One example of this is in this video while working out of the SHOTGUN most of the game, look at the difference in body language and the complete confidence he shows when throwing the football.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFIAoIPSKek

    And I watched him play alot in 4 years he had that same confidence as a freshman...

    Will he ever get his "mojo" back? That is the question, he has became a mini Penny imo and thats not who he is. I can blame the coaches for stressing No mistakes....no mistakes...be smart....if its not there blah blah blah, on the other hand i blame Henne for letting himself be programmed into an ultra conservative coward.

    Coaching changes are on the way so Im not against Henne playing QB for us one more year, but he and whoever is the new OC need to spend the offseason re-evaluating who Chad Henne is.

    And gee he sure didnt look to bad in the shotgun formation in college.
     
  15. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Putting numbers in the context of a player's time just makes the numbers meaningful. In 1987, Jim Kelly was a pretty good passer, top third in the league; in 2010 Chad Henne is in the bottom fifth, more or less. That was my point.

    You have a point, but the difference is less than you might think -- less than I thought, anyway. In 1972, the average completion was 13.2 yards. This year, it's 11.5 yards.


    Anyway, thanks for trying to post a positive Henne thread. I'm not helping, I guess. Merry Christmas anyway.
     
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  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's all good..:lol:

    It's only a discussion not Mortal Combat..:D
     
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  17. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the thread, and being one of the best posters around.
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thanks man, with the season being "over" how the players react and play especially coming off of Christmas at home, will say a lot about Sparano and Henning.
     
  19. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    We've got alot of talent on offense, the schemes are the problem, Henne being a rookie on top of it just makes him destined to fail unless we make some changes. For the most part it comes down to Henning and Sparano. Sparano is a good guy but he's not a brilliant football mind by any stretch of the imagination and the only way he will succeed is to surround himself with brilliant minds. He's done it for the defense by hiring Nolan now he needs to do it for the offense...who are we gonna get?

    Henne's stats will just be an abberation until he has a solid foundation to work with, same can be said for pretty much any player on this offense. It's pretty much the blind leading the blind, they are in need of a brilliant offensive mind to show them the way.

    Hate to say it but look at the Pats bunch of no-names that were destined to fail at the start of this season but now they have the best record in the league this year and before everyone jumps in saying it's because of Brady, the Pats didn't miss a beat when Brady got hurt and had to be replaced by Cassell. Yea they didn't make the Super Bowl but they were still a damn good team and it's all because of the coaching. Players come and go every year over there in Patsy land and it doesn't seem to make the slightest bit of difference.

    Point is the best players in the league aren't going to succeed without the proper coaching and you just might never know how good your players are until you see them play for a team that is coached properly. Would hate to lose Henne and see him go somewhere else and light it up which is entirely possible at this point. Only time and proper coaching will tell.

    Merry Christmas Everyone!
     
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  20. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I know what you're getting at, but I was thinking more along the lines of major, fatal flaws that won't get overcome no matter what system he plays in. Besides, I think all of those guys (Parcells, Henning, Lee, etc.) have been around long enough to at least realize the possibility that he may not be an ideal fit in the system they're running. I believe the question then becomes one of them either being unyielding in their belief of their offensive system, or one of mistrust that Henne has some basic flaws that wouldn't allow him to succeed even if the offense was opened up some more to supposedly fit his strengths.
     
  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Basically what this cat said, although I'm still a little stuck on the avatar dude. Peace!! :up:::hammertime:
     
  22. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Henne could survive a 3 WR and 4 WR in only two ways. The offensive line must be excellent which it can be with the improvement of the interior offensive line. The running game must be heavily emphasized to the point that it's a 50/50 ratio despite being in a spread. I think a complete back that has quickness, power, and a decisive running style can run extremely well in this type of system. It's made for a guy like Mark Ingram despite his playing in a different offense at Alabama, he's got that quick move, the power to not be tackled by defensive backs, and just an almost auto-pilot like running style that's different from Ronnie Brown's patient approach. Ingram's just a RB period.

    Henne needs superior talent around him to win, but so do most quarterbacks. We don't have a Tom Brady, Manning that's for sure, but it doesn't mean we don't have a guy that can succeed.
     
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  23. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I hear where you`re coming from Pod,and I agree.


    - On a totally unrelated subject,do you realize you have almost 60,000 posts?? thats 60,000, Holy keyboard Batman :batman:
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Any chance Miami could execute a no-huddle?
     
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  25. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I`d be happy if they could execute a decent drive.

    Actually that sounds interesting. A no -huddle WITHOUT a wildcat play to ruin it.
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Matt Ryan was down in every category except TDs after his 2nd year. His QB rating was down 7 points to 80. INTs up by 3 (in 2 less games). Ave per pass was down by 1.4 yards. He also had 3 games with QB ratings in the 60s, 1 in the 50s, and 1 in the 40s, while throwing 11 INTs over a 6 game span.

    Henne's game is improved across the board with a much tougher schedule than he faced last year, a run game that is much worse than last year, and a receiver position that's had key injuries with no depth behind them. In a position where sophomore slumps are commonplace, I'm not sure why we can be so harsh on Chad considering technically he didn't actually regress.

    Did Atlanta draft a QB in round 1 to compete with Ryan after his angering soph slump?

    Year 3 is when it's time to become critical when you have a young QB who has flashed some talent and potential. If he's a John Beck, then you worry.
     
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  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Said it a million times bro.:up: I don't get it. We've waste time, killed momentum and let the D regain there composure by not doing so many, many a time. Pisses me off!:tantrum:
     

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