Pro - Good player Con - KB21 would flood the message board with constant complaints for as long as Cam is a Miami Dolphin
last nights game did nothing to change my mind. a bigger, perhaps slightly more accurate version of Vince Young. i see him struggling in the NFL.
Pros- Great potential Cons- Wouldn't Suprise anyone if he's a bust. Forecast.... fine at 15 joke if traded up for.
I think he plays right away. Maybe only part time at first, but I definitely think he plays immediately.
I agree. There are certainly packages you could use him in right away, much like Denver did with Tebow. And if you needed him for a stretch I think he could be credible from the get go.
Pros: Big time upside, would energize the fan base Cons: Bust potential Ultimately I'd rather Blaine Gabbert, but I think it's come to the point for the Dolphins where they need to take a big risk for a potential big payoff at QB. The Dolphins have gone the safe route at QB making moves for veterans and second tier QBs in the draft. That hasn't worked out for them. They can keep going along that path and hope to eventually get lucky or they can make a bold move and invest in a big time prospect. Newton has his warts as does Mallett and there is certainly the potential that these guys bust out and set the franchise back yet again. But this team has been worried about taking a risk like that for about a decade now and they still sit in mediocrity without a QB. There is certainly a risk there, but if this move pays off you have a big time QB for the next decade and will probably be in the playoff mix and potentially the Super Bowl mix with the right moves made around it. I just think the time is here to be bold at QB and swing from your heels. If you strike out at least you go down swinging. But there's also that chance you hit a big time homerun.
Pros: Good athlete. Cons: Poor mechanics. I'm with Ricky'sBong on this one. I watch Cam Newton and I see Vince Young. Perhaps a specialty player at the next level but as a QB...... Bust.
That just isn't true. He doesn't have poor mechanics. At times he can stray from them like the short pass on the goal line, but he actually has pretty good mechanics IMO and I'm pretty sure the draft gurus feel the same way. Vince Young was never like that. People see a big mobile QB and see Vince Young, but people don't see the fact that Newton is a far superior thrower of the football and potentially even a better runner.
It's more than just seeing one big athletic QB and thinking its VY 2.0. Once again we have a spread offense allowing Cam Newton to use his athletic ability and keep his reads to a minimum. I mean look at that offense. How many bubble screens does he throw a game? I think talking about Cam Newton in the top 5 is just wrong, but thats just me. I see a one year spread offense aided wonder, with the hype train in full blast. I think he struggles in the NFL. Time will tell I suppose.
Vince young might not be great or even good, however teams win more often than they lose when he is QB. Cam newton is like a HUGE vince young
I agree that is the big issue here. Gus Malzahn's offense allows him to capitalize on his strengths and he will have to learn to read the field and do more from an NFL QB standpoint in the pros. But because he hasn't done it before doesn't mean he won't be able to in the NFL. IMO, there is enough to like with him as a thrower to spend a 1st round pick on him and potentially move up to do so. I have been saying all along I see Newton in the NFL as more Big Ben than Vince Young. I see a guy that can use his size and athleticism to buy time rather than take off and run at the first sign of trouble. This is going to take coaching and a lot of preparation on Newton's part, but I think it can be done. It's definitely a move that would come with enormous risk, but like I've said before, I think it's time for the Dolphins to go out and take a risk.
Well, let’s be fair. He did eventually shut up for a while about Brandon Marshall. You know, after he accused Marshall of being Darrent Williams’ killer. Anyway, back on topic. Pro: Good passer and getting better all the time; very athletic; sky-high ceiling. Con: Not ready to plug and play at the NFL level; will probably have a rocky beginning; not the 2011 franchise savior.
Pro: He Just Won The Heisman and Won the Championship Game. Con: He Might have his Heisman revoked for receiving illegal benefits and have to give up the championship. I think the pros somewhat outweigh the cons, but his character and those around him are to be in question. I can't wait til Ireland asks him if his Dad is a Glorified Pimp and he a common thief.
Pros: Great potential in a specific system Cons: Limited to one system and may never be even a good NFL passer I know many don't agree, but I don't see him as a better prospect than Vince Young was when he came out. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that I think the odds of Tebow developing into a good starter are better than Newton's. People were all over Tebow's mechanics, but it was really just a loop in his throwing motion. That's not as difficult to fix as when you have to change a release point. I think that Tebow's footwork and balance is superior. I saw Tebow throw into tighter windows than Newton has had to. I saw Tebow throw on time. Now I watched more Florida games than Auburn games so maybe Newton has also been asked to and succeeded in throwing in rhythm, but I haven't noticed it in the 3 or 4 games of his I watched. I also have no questions about Tebow's character and work ethic. I can't say Newton's are bad, but it would be naive to ignore the red flags.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-extra-0112-20110111,0,4018250.story Tony Sparano on the necessity of QB mobility in terms of creating big plays. Excellent article if you want to have some informed speculation on what the new offense will look like. Long story short, it's going to look an awful lot like one that can be quarterbacked by Cam Newton
I actually saw a comparison video that had Leftwich opposite Tebow both with a timer. They really weren't that close, Tebow's release was much faster. I'm trying to remember the QB whose release time they compared it to, but it was a QB that had been much more successful than Leftwich. Tebow's release would never be considered quick, but it won't be something that prevents him from succeeding.
That is interesting. IMO you could add Big Ben to that group as well in most years. Romo was also good at that in the years when Dallas looked like a SB contender. That was one of the areas where I thought Sanchez was superior to Henne. Henne's lack of athleticism and poor long accuracy are the primary reasons why I see his ceiling as limited. I think he could learn to do everything else and with a better OC and a receiving TE I think his INTs would be cut in half. But I don't think Henne will ever be the guy that can give you a ton of TDs or save too many plays when things break down.
I didn't say it was identical to Leftwich's, I said it was Leftwich-like. In other words, it was a long wind-up.
Berardino is kidding himself if he thinks a. that a running quarterback is the only kind of mobile quarterback, and b. that Vince Young and Cam Newton are the only options for improving quarterback mobility for the Dolphins. Henne is basically Drew Bledsoe. Berardino’s overreaction is to go out and get Vince Young. Why not a happy medium like an Aaron Rodgers or a Philip Rivers? That’s the kind of QB we should target.
Pros: NONE Negatives: Not a drop back passer; can't read a defense; doesn't go through progressions; passing offense is based around quick throws and pre determined reads; no pocket presence; can't feel pressure; too quick to break out of the pocket and run; thinks run before anything else Conclusion: A tight end playing quarterback. Some team is going to fall for the athletic ability, but the GM and coach that takes him will be out of a job within the next 3 years.
Yeah I personally regarded Tebow's release as over-picked on, too much emphasis placed on it. What was a lot more damning to me is the fact that he didn't have a QB's eyes for finding people open on the field, and totally lacked timing or the ability to throw with anticipation. I didn't think he had great eye discipline either. You put all that together with a slower release, it's a bad package IMO. But he's such a good character, a ridiculously hard worker, wouldn't surprise me if he overcame that stuff, or died trying.
My point was that it wasn't nearly as slow as Leftwich's. From what I read, Tebow's release, while at UF, was on average 70 milliseconds slower than Bradford's, who is considered to have a very quick release. Sports science did a before and after on Tebow and with the more compact release he was now 60 milliseconds faster. Basically an insignificant difference when compared to Bradford's. Now Bradford's motion is still more compact so that probably means that Tebow's arm speed is faster, but the point is that Tebow's release was never slow like Leftwich's.
IMO Tebow's passing issues were mostly related to timing and anticipation. I would also agree that he never exhibited any eye discipline. But in my experience those are things that largely depend on practice. The release, while I wouldn't call it quick, was never in the Leftwich range. His release speed was below average, but only slightly so. And I also think his accuracy is good enough. He'll never be Brees, but IMO he has better accuracy than guys like Henne and Sanchez. What Tebow does have is the ability to extend a play similar to what Big Ben provides. He's not quite as big (maybe he's as strong), but he also has more shiftiness and speed than Ben. I expect that in Tebow's first year starting, defenses will play him like they did Vince Young. That will mean bigger passing windows and simpler defenses. Tebow has enough talent to win in that environment (although his surrounding team isn't as good). Then it will be on him to continue to develop as a passer.
Sometimes you DO have to take a risk but it's still important to take a calculated risk. When your chip count is getting low in Poker you sometimes have to go all in but you might still wait a few hands and do it at a time that maximizes your chance of success, not just randomly on the next hand. In my opinion we DO need to take a risk but I would take that risk by trading back this year multiple times to gain extra picks next year and then go all in on a Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley. If we're going to gamble the franchise (and i think it's time we do, not much to lose at this point) then I would rather do it sensibly on a QB with a higher probability of success.
In my opinion that's even riskier. That's over a year from now. We don't know what's going to happen with Luck or Barkley next year. Jake Locker was once a consensus top pick and now I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Not saying that's likely with Luck, but you just never know. There is no guarantee either of those QBs will have a higher probability of success come next year. It also might be much harder to move up next year with a rookie wage scale. Most teams won't be so eager to move down when they're not having to pay through the nose for top picks. And I'm not advocating going all in blind here to continue with your poker analogy. The Dolphins FO would obviously have to really like one of these guys. But IMO there is a lot to like.
There's no certainty now. People keep saying "have a conviction and get that guy", but what if you don't have a conviction about any of the early QBs? Outside of Gabbert, I like Yates better than the other options. And I don't mean I like him better due to or at their relative costs. I mean I like him better irrespective of the cost.
selecting a qb in the 1st isnt gambling the franchise IMO. look at all the 2nd rounders we have tossed away. if you miss,and you may, you swing again until you hit. simple as that.
Obviously Miami has to have a conviction. If they don't they are setting themselves up for future failure , again. No one knows if they do , and to be honest they probably don't as of yet , too early in the process. Like you , I feel Miami did no favours to Henne , however I can't say I expect him to be what I hoped he would . I like Newton , as of now , Miami needs to do all they need to do to see if they do indeed feel he is "the" guy. Picking 15 sets up the possibility get him , who knows if next year they are in a better position or not. Yet another year removed , and I think less chance to hit on the right QB if we do the hope to get lucky thing again in round 2 or 3 or ... So , I guess , bottom line , IF Miami has a conviction , then for me they have to act on it.
Am I the only one that thinks comparisons to Vince Young's playing ability isn't the worst thing in the world? I would gladly take in a Vince Young if he didn't have the baggage, aka suicidal tendencies and no desire. A quarterback with this kind of arm and mobility can absolutely become a weapon. The bigger problem would of course be the gimmicky offense, but I don't see a purer physical talent at quarterback in this draft. Yes we all love Gabbert, but what are the chances that the likely number one quarterback in the draft falls to the point where we have any chance at obtaining him? The perceived baggage that would come along with Cam Newton is really more similar to the issues that Reggie Bush had, and he's been a non distraction for the Saints. Also winning games should never be undervalued when it comes to assessing quarterbacks, case in point Sam Bradford v. Jimmy Clausen.