If the speedier guy could run routes effectively, read defenses effectively, and required little in terms of resources, sure. But again, to get that type of receiver you describe will most likely require a large expenditure in terms of salary cap space or a high draft pick. And no, as a general rule, I'm not willing to sacrifice much in terms of route running etc. for someone who has more speed and "deep capability". I don't think designed deep passes are very efficient, unless you have a QB thats shown he can buy a lot of time in the pocket and has exceptional accuracy down the field. The New England Patriots made a concerted effort to move away from that type of offense in favor of one that relies on different concepts. The percentage is too low, and the opportunity cost is too high. Really the citing of Mike Wallace doesn't do your argument any good, because nobody is arguing that Brian Hartline is among the top-10 WRs in the NFL, which Wallace is. Not to mention he has a QB that can pretty much do almost anything he wants on the field in terms of accuracy and buying time in the pocket.
Who said it was easy? Being a good QB in this league is by no means easy. And yes, there are plenty of people who could hit a cut with their driver and drop it in a small area. Those people are called "the best golfers in the world".
Their fans do, I believe. I don't know anything about NE wanting a guy who can make plays down field. They already have two on their roster that they are developing.
"could" being the operative word. There's a lot of stuff they "could" do. If you're referring to consistently doing it (on a golf course, not a driving range), then I would beg to differ.
They cut Randy Moss and signed Deion Branch. If you look at their offense from last year compared to the year before you can see how they changed their offense.
I don't disagree that it didn't change b/c you're right- it was obvious.......... but then it also stalled in the playoffs b/c they couldn't stretch the field. They've since worked out Torrey Smith & Edmund Gates.
I don't know if this was more a conscious decision to shift their philosophy because dammit it was something they wanted to do! Or more a decision foisted upon them by Moss spiraling out of control. They still tried to keep a deep field option open using Hernandez and the fast WR, Tate I think he is. They are also trying to develop Taylor Price. I would not say they are making a determined decision to abandon a more vertical passing game, rather they realized Moss was starting to become a detriment to the team and that they didn't have anyone who could immediately fulfill the void that cutting him left.
Here's a CBS Sports article yesterday that's related to what we've been discussing: Gheesh, more idiot babble, right String & Disgus?
Any time you play Quarters, you're seeing bracket coverage everywhere. Its the only coverage of the four common ones discussed that provides that. Now whether you are seeing pattern read and combos and all of that fun stuff is a whole different thing IMO.
Playing Quarters is also an excellent way to defend the run. It allows an extra man in the box(9) if both safeties are reading run. If the Ginn TD was indeed quarters the coverage was still man because the box was stacked with 9 and that shows me they expected run.
Taylor price is a secret weapon for them and a give away as to why I dont think they will go receiver early at all.....That kid imo, is gonna be a player...they know it, some of us know it, but most media pundits dont have a clue.
Yes sir. No ifs though, their primary read is run. The Ginn touchdown was Quarters with a 2 check to the nub side.
I'm no expert or anything close to it, but you don't have to be an expert to understand that our offense lacks explosiveness and that we need more speed if we're going to be aggressive consistently. IMO the skinny post is a good route against Quarters, so is the dig. The dig-post combo can be effective, and anything with play action and throwing behind the safeties. If all else fails, check downs, screens and shallow crosses can force teams out of it, provided you have targets who can do damage after the catch. I think the Chargers do an excellent job of forcing teams to play Quarters and then attacking it anyway w/ their verticals plus Gates (option routes) and/or Sproles (screens/checkdowns)available to attack the LBs underneath. It's element I'd like to see us add, but we're missing 1 vertical WR, a more athletic TE and a scatback. I like quarters, but not when we have guys like Girbril Wilson and Y Bell at safety like we did in 09. Those guys, Wilson especially were getting roasted all year long. Giving quarters a bad name if you ask me. If W Allen is healthy this year and Carroll steps up, we can continue to move Sean Smith to S and have Bell underneath in passing situations. I'm more comfortable w/ that than I am with Bell back there. An even better option would be if Reshad Jones proves he can handle it, then we can leave Sean at CB and still have Bell in the underneath/robber/blitzer role.
I agree with you that we lack explosiveness but I don't necessarily agree that its a must at WR. I think what you need on this team is a tight end. You need a satellite player; we already have a guy who can do some stuff inline. If you want another guy who can do stuff as a closed tight end AND get a guy as an open tight end, I'm fine with that. I have no issues selecting a player like Julius Thomas. If you want a pure vertical guy, Virgil Green III is fine but he doesn't thrill me. If you can run the ball well enough and work the play action, you can get a lot of openings in Quarters despite the bracket coverage. I realize you can say that about every coverage but that is a primary run read coverage and the safeties are taught to be aggressive downhill. Regarding check downs and screens, we suck at that. We really do. Henne missed quite a few check downs into the flats last season, so did Thigpen in that Chicago game. As for screens, not much to say about that. They flat out blow at that because our offensive lineman are about mobile as a flagpole. Miami saw some Cover 2, Cover 2 Buc, Man-Free, Loaded Zone, 2 Man, 2 Read, and Quarters last season from what I saw. From our division opponents, we saw 2 Man, 2 Buc, Man-Free, 2 Read and Loaded Zone the most.
I agree w/ you on the TE and I'm sure we're looking into the DJ Williams-Virgil Green types. The issue w/ that is those are #2 TE's who will likely see a limited number of snaps. I'm more in favor of adding a WR because it doesn't restrict the offense formation wise. If we can find a guy who returns kick/punts also, that'd be awesome. Ideally, we'll be able to add both. Agree on both. If we get a LG who can move, we should at least be able to use screen left. IIRC we had 3-4 screens that worked and only one was to a RB, to Ronnie vs Cleveland. The others were throwbacks to Fasano. Add that to the list of things that Daboll has to find a way to fix. Do you have overhead views of the games, or are you that good? B/c I have a hard time deciphering the coverages from the TV angles. If you can tell from the TV looks, I'd love to know how so that I can go back and re-watch the games (again).
I disagree. Regardless of everything, we still need a #4 WR. Since all we have are possession guys, then that receiver HAS to be someone to compliment the group. Hence, this team needs an explosive WR, especially if Sparano wants the passing game to be more "vertical". We can't enter next year in the same predicament as last where if we lose a starting receiver we're in trouble (definitely if it's Marshall or Hartline and Bess is forced to play X or Z). We have a QB with a cannon for an arm, so I'm not sure why you don't want to do everything possible to help him succeed. If this were Pennington, I'd agree about not needing an explosive WR because he wouldn't have the arm to take advantage of the guy. If you guys think Henne isn't accurate on his deep balls, then fix it---- get a guy in here with speed (or downfield playmaking ability) who can improve the margin of error. For all the talk that some people put into us getting a great QB, we sure as heck don't seem to want to help maximize the ability of the one we currently have. I just don't understand that. One of the reasons I like Virgil Green is he's proven the ability to catch screamers from Kaepernick's gun.
I can decipher some. I tend to rewind and watch games. But I also have the below. http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...Philosophy-amp-The-Quarterback-Position/page3
Another thing to add is that a lot of coaches consider quarters defense a variation of the Cover 2 defense....
Yes, for the most part. Mel Kiper isn't in any sense qualified to run an NFL franchise. He's done a great job promoting the draft, does a good job predicting which players will be drafted where, but that's not the same thing. And it's quite possible the Dolphins will spend significant resources on the position. They absolutely shouldn't, but it's within the realm of possibility Al Davis disease is an actual, communicable pathogen and could become problematic. It's just not all that likely they spend a significant pick on that position.
This once again prompts the question of what kind of snap count do you think an #4 receiver in the NFL is actually going to play? If Henne is not good enough, no amount of throwing resources down the well to make up for his deficiencies is actually going to result in a workable situation. At this point, all signs point to him not being good enough and not being perceived as good enough.
The 4th WR is inexpensive though for a reason. Improving Henne's situation doesn't change the issue at 15. It's very likely a quarterback or a pass rusher. Chances are it's a QB. I honestly think it's Mallet, but we'll see.
Disgustipate and Stringer, I'm curious about your opinion of Matt Bowen's National Football Post blog "Why speed sells at the WR position". (For those who don't know, Bowen was a safety in the NFL for 7 years). http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Why-speed-sells-at-the-wide-receiver-position.html (side note: does Davone Bess get the same results from similar plays? How many passes can he turn for huge gains out of the slot? Does that not limit the potential of our offense in regards to trying to make big plays?)
why are you assuming that the WR would only be the #4? Why can he not challenge Hart at flanker or Bess in the slot? Why can Hart, Bess, and the new receiver not share snaps since neither of them are complete receivers (IE: they have limitations to their game)? If Henne isn't good enough, then a new QB will be here, and he WILL need the resources. You can't be an NFL team who uses 3 WR sets and not have a quality #4 receiver. That's simply unacceptable on many levels. What happened when Marshall caught and ran for like 50 yards near the end of the first Jets game and he needed a breather? We had roughly 30 seconds on the clock and NEEDED to score. How do you suggest we effectively do that and send it to OT when our best receiver is on the sideline gasping for air only to be replaced by a player who should be on the practice squad? Need I remind you that we subsequently failed to score and lost the game? How is our passing game maximized if one of our two outside receivers are injured and Bess is forced to play X or Z where he's limited in ability? Not only is the X or Z position hindered, but the slot position is, too, if our W receiver is moved outside. How about if we're trailing a game or are in our 2 minute offense and want to run a legitimate 4 wr set? What if we're trailing by a few scores and need receivers who can pick up chunk yards or excel in the vertical game?
Haha, why's that? You can get the calls on TV at times. If you go through and count the tackle box, it'll tell you how much is left in the defensive backfield. Then from there, you can determine how many safeties you have high. Then at the snap, you can watch the LB's and they will sometimes help you figure it out by watching their responsibilities. The cornerback at the top of the screen will also be shown and you can see if he's in man or zone. You can figure things out by the offensive personnel; i.e. a nub side, etc. And then, sometimes, you can catch it as the ball is in the air. But like I said, I go through and re-watch the plays multiple times because I am weird. I can't sit and watch it and cheer. I have to figure out what happened.
I wouldn't say that. I think thats a bit disrespectful to members here, personally. There are a lot of bright minds here and while some don't spend their time watching the games over and over, they get it and maybe they don't need to re-watch it because they understood it the first time. Just my two cents though. We can't all agree on everything.
To be fair, there are a lot of fans (even in here) who don't go back and rewatch plays in order to break it down and understand it. I think you really have to enjoy that to do it, and a lot of people might find it too tedious or uninteresting of a task. I think the person needs a little OCD'ishness to them, too, which not all of us have.
