Mockery of a mock

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Desides, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I don’t normally post a mock, but Hawks-Magic is so boring that I need something else to do. :lol:

    1. Carolina Panthers - QB Cam Newton, Auburn
    The best quarterback prospect in the draft and a potentially elite player at the position, which automatically makes him the best candidate for going first. Marty Hurney is the only person in the Panthers organization who believes in Jimmy Clausen.
    Alt: QB Blaine Gabbert

    2. Denver Broncos - DT Marcell Dareus, Alabama
    A safe pick for a franchise that could use one. Dareus is not quite on the level of Ndamukong Suh, but he can play any spot in a 3-4 or 4-3 front.
    Alt: CB Patrick Peterson

    3. Buffalo Bills - DE Robert Quinn, North Carolina
    I struggled with this pick. Buffalo switched back to the 4-3 mid-season, and they appear to be sticking with that. They need a pass rusher of some sort regardless of what scheme they run, and Quinn’s silver lining is an ability to play both 4-3 rush end and convert to 3-4 rush linebacker if they decide to switch back.
    Alt: OLB Von Miller

    4. Cincinnati Bengals - WR A.J. Green, Georgia
    The Bengals approach the draft by predetermining which position they’ll draft at each pick, then selecting the best player at that position on draft day. They’re going WR in the first round, which means A.J. Smith is their man.
    Alt: WR Julio Jones

    5. Arizona Cardinals - OLB Von Miller, Texas A&M
    Yeah, that Joey Porter thing didn’t work out too well.
    Alt: QB Blaine Gabbert

    6. Cleveland Browns - WR Julio Jones, Alabama
    Another tough pick. What they do here depends on Buffalo. If Buffalo is sticking with the 3-4, then Robert Quinn should still be here, and they’d select him instead. But assuming Buffalo goes back to the 4-3, Quinn is gone, which means they could either reach for a tackle (Fairley) or reach for a receiver. Teams tend to reach for receivers, so Jones goes off the board here if Cleveland can’t trade down.
    Alt: DE Robert Quinn

    7. San Francisco 49ers - CB Patrick Peterson, LSU
    San Fran goes BPA here. Peterson is rumored heavily to be at the top of their draft board. While, granted, he’s probably at the top of most teams’ boards, teams rarely go pure BPA. The Niners will here.
    Alt: QB Blaine Gabbert

    8. Tennessee Titans - QB Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
    Fourth time’s the charm for Blaine. The Titans need a franchise QB with Vince Young gone and Kerry Collins likely in the last year of his career.
    Alt: DT Nick Fairley

    9. Dallas Cowboys - CB Prince Amukamara, Nebraska
    The Boys have been smokescreening interesting Tyron Smith lately. While that’s the sort of pick Jerry Jones would normally make, he knows full well how deficient the secondary really is. Amukamara will go a long way to fixing that.
    Alt: OT Tyron Smith

    10. Washington Redskins - DE Cameron Jordan, Cal
    So, this whole “draft” thing usually doesn’t go very well for the Redskins. The players they’d really like—Gabbert, Quinn, Jones—are all gone in this mock. Cameron Jordan is not exactly a bad consolation prize.
    Alt: DE/OLB Aldon Smith

    11. Houston Texans - DE/OLB Aldon Smith, Missouri
    Something of a luxury pick, since Mario Williams will be converting to OLB as well, but both top corners are off the board, and Houston needs some way to improve their pass defense. Might as well knock Peyton Manning on his *** a few more times per game.
    Alt: CB Jimmy Smith

    12. Minnesota Vikings - QB Jake Locker, Washington
    While true that Rick Spielman prefers veteran QBs, Leslie Frazier let the cat out of the bag early in the process by signaling interest in adding a new QB. Locker is probably more of a WCO guy, which the Vikings appear to be moving away from, but since when does Spielman make a correct move at quarterback?
    Alt: QB Ryan Mallett

    13. Detroit Lions - CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado
    Detroit will dwell in the cellar as long as they continue to field historically terrible pass defenses. In a division with Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler, Chris Houston and Nathan Vasher won’t get it done.
    Alt: OT Tyron Smith

    14. St. Louis Rams - DT Nick Fairley, Auburn
    Concerns swirl about Fairley’s inconsistent effort in practice and even games, but when he wants to play, he’s a force. At #14, the risk is worth the reward.
    Alt: DT Corey Liuget

    15. Miami Dolphins - OG Mike Pouncey, Florida
    Jeff Ireland is 1 for 2 in exciting me with 1st round picks, his only hit being Vontae Davis in 2009. The pessimist in me says he’ll go 1 for 3.
    Alt: RB Mark Ingram

    16. Jacksonville Jaguars - DE Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
    Fills a huge hole at DE. Aaron Kampman keeps getting hurt, and previous defensive line busts must be swept into the memory hole.
    Alt: QB Christian Ponder

    17. New England Patriots - DE J.J. Watt, Wisconsin
    Arguably the BPA at this point, Watt is a strong, blue-collar type of player who’ll fit in well next to Vince Wilfork.
    Alt: RB Mark Ingram

    18. San Diego Chargers - OT Tyron Smith, USC
    The Chargers need help at DE, but not so much that they can pass up on the value presented by Smith. Can plug in immediately at RT, and eventually take over for Marcus McNeill on the left side.
    Alt: DE Cameron Heyward

    19. New York Giants - OT Anthony Castonzo, Boston College
    San Diego kick-starts a small run on tackles, and the Giants are happy to participate. Castonzo is a better player than Smith, in my view, and can be considered a few notches down from the likes of Jake Long and Joe Thomas.
    Alt: OLB Akeem Ayers

    20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - DE Justin Houston, Georgia
    Value meets need. The Bucs need defensive ends badly, and Houston can become a premium pass rusher to boot.
    Alt: DE Adrian Clayborn

    21. Kansas City Chiefs - OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin
    Carimi can take over immediately at right tackle, and can potentially be a left tackle of the future if Branden Albert continues to struggle. A perfect fit for the Chiefs.
    Alt: DT Phil Taylor

    22. Indianapolis Colts - OT Nate Solder, Colorado
    Ryan Diem is coming off the worst season in his career, and he’s on the wrong side of 30. Protecting Peyton Manning should be priority #1 for the Colts, whose Super Bowl window is beginning to slowly close.
    Alt: OT Derek Sherrod

    23. Philadelphia Eagles - OG/T Danny Watkins, Baylor
    Philly woud probably love to get Jimmy Smith somehow, but he’s long gone in this mock. Alternatively, they’d prefer to trade up to get Smith, but no trades in a mock. Their second-biggest weakness is along the OL, so here you are, Coach Reid.
    Alt: CB Brandon Harris

    24. New Orleans Saints - DE Da’Quan Bowers, Clemson
    Huge value here. Bowers will be a monster opposite Will Smith, assuming the knee checks out. Then again, the Saints don’t have a problem trusting talent over medical reports. Reference Brees, Drew.
    Alt: DT Muhammad Wilkerson

    25. Seattle Seahawks - DT Muhammad Wilkerson, Temple
    Yet another tough pick. The Seahawks would probably love Jake Locker, who by now is being fitted for a purple jersey. Wilkerson’s versatility presents huge value for the Seahawks’ D, so he’s not a bad consolation prize.
    Alt: QB Christian Ponder

    26. Baltimore Ravens - DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio State
    Big steal here for Ozzie Newsome. Heyward lets Haloti Ngata kick inside to replace NT Kelly Gregg, or even act as the DE instead of Terrell Suggs in 4 man fronts.
    Alt: OT Derek Sherrod

    27. Atlanta Falcons - DE Brooks Reed, Arizona
    A bit of a reach, but necessary. John Abraham is on his last legs, and Reed fits the Falcons’ pass rusher profile very nicely. He can also drop into coverage, a bonus.
    Alt: TE Kyle Rudolph

    28. New England Patriots - QB Christian Ponder, Florida State
    I’m not actually mocking Ponder to the Pats, but rather Ponder as the 28th overall pick. New England has been trying to trade this pick for a while, and you have to believe they’ll find a taker. They always do. Ponder has first round talent and is very pro-ready. Whoever snags him will be very happy.
    Alt: RB Mark Ingram

    29. Chicago Bears - DT Corey Liuget, Illinois
    The Bears need help at OL, but the earlier run on tackles puts a damper on that. They’ll look to the defensive line, where Tommie Harris is ready to be phased out.
    Alt: RB Mark Ingram

    30. New York Jets - DT Phil Taylor, Baylor
    The Jets got on fine without Kris Jenkins for two seasons in a row, but they originally signed him for a reason. Taylor will play immediately at the nose.
    Alt: OLB Akeem Ayers

    31. Pittsburgh Steelers - CB/FS Aaron Williams, Texas
    Pittsburgh always drafts for value, so it’s very tempting to place Mark Ingram here, but they seem content to run Rashard Mendenhall into the ground. So, looking at the best fit instead of the absolute best player, going cornerback seems the best bet.
    Alt: OT/G Benjamin Ijalana

    32. Green Bay Packers - OT/G Benjamin Ijalana, Villanova
    The Packers did two things in 2010: get injured, and win anyway. They won because Aaron Rodgers stayed relatively healthy, though he has a small history of concussions. Priority #1 should be to protect Rodgers going forward. Ijalana isn’t ideal value here, and the Packers would probably prefer Danny Watkins, but Ijalana presents similar versatility.
    Alt: CB Brandon Harris



    As a last note, I mocked several positions against some knowledge and statements floating around out there. For example, Adam Schefter’s informed statement that Andy Dalton and Christian Ponder will be first round picks, or the word that Colin Kaepernick is slowly creeping into the bottom of the 1st round. These may very well be true statements, but it seems like the only way those picks will happen is through trades, and there are several teams in this mock who would love to trade down: the Eagles at 23, Seattle at 25, and New England at 28. That would neatly fit the scenario of Dalton, Ponder, and Kaepernick all being drafted in the first round.

    And Hawks-Magic is still boring as hell. :lol:
     
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    Orygun
    I applaud your efforts, and the only thing I would question much is Detroit. The Lions absolutely positively need to draft the best pass blocking left tackle they can. They should have taken Michael Oher two years ago instead of Pettigrew, or they should have taken Rodger Saffold last year instead of Best. Unless they just for some reason like seeing Stafford get pummeled year after year.
     
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  3. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Just because they should doesn’t mean they will.

    Also, Detroit’s need to improve their pass D is arguably a bigger need than offensive line. Their historically bad pass defense is the main reason they went 0-16 a couple of years ago, and they aren’t much better now.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    Orygun
    As much as they need to improve their pass defense, if they don't keep Stafford healthy, they got no chance IMO. I agree though, just because they should does not mean that they will make a OLT a priority. They won't get a chance to draft Peterson at 13, maybe Prince, but if he is gone too, I hope they take whomever they consider the best pass blocking OLT. It seems to me they can get a good corner in the 2nd because after the top two the quality IMO drops a good deal, but then levels off with the next 5-6.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    We’ll see. Detroit may be outthinking themselves, believing they can get offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

    Or they may draft another freaking tight end. :lol:
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    I guess we can ask ourselves would the Lions be better off to take Prince at 13 and then say James Carpenter in the 2nd, or Castonzo at 13 and one of Williams, Harris, Dowling or House in the 2nd. I'm not a fan of Tyron Smith. If he can't play OLT in college, how can an NFL team expect he will for them. Winston Justice the 2nd it seems to me.
     
  7. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I don’t like Tyron Smith at all either, but he’s the consensus #1 LT. I don’t know how, but he is. I greatly prefer Castonzo and even Carimi to him.

    That status as consensus #1 is why I describe him as a value pick for the Chargers, BTW. If you get a guy in the first round 10 slots later than where most believe he’s going to go, then it qualifies.
     
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  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    Me too man. Not only Carimi, but if keeping Stafford intact in pass pro was my main concern, I'd rather Nate Solder, even though he won't be a lot of help in the run game right away.
     
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  9. MDHQ

    MDHQ New Member

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    He's actually the #1 RT, he's only played RT all his career but is projected to switch as a pro.
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Smith just has a higher cieling than Carimi or Costanzo. Then again it was potential that got Andre Smith drafted in the top 10.

    Its fickle, its all so fickle.

    Im digging the mock overall though, ofcourse their are a few picks I disagree with but thats inevitable. I dont see Mallett in that mock wich means you think he wont be a first rounder wich I disagree with. Like the Buffalo curveball because its going against everyone else's thinking of Von Miller.

    You should have wrote this during Knicks/Celtics that way it could have had your 100% complete FULL attention.
     
    Desides likes this.
  11. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    He’s considered the #1 LT. I think it’s Carimi considered the #1 RT. Charlie Casserly, for example, is all over Tyron Smith as the only really decent LT in this class.

    I don’t see how a player who’s never played the position before can be considered to have a higher ceiling. To me, that’s like saying Jake Locker is a potential All-Pro cornerback.

    There are a few spots he can go in the early 1st, but I limited myself to just one alternate per team. He could go anywhere from 8 to 15. If he lasts past us, he’s probably going to be a 2nd rounder. I also think he’s in play at #15, but I was intentionally pessimistic about that pick. Unless Cam Newton miraculously falls, Mallett is probably the best pick there, but I have a nagging feeling Ireland pulls a Jared Odrick again.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I really like Gabe Carimi's game, he reminds me a bit of a poor man's Big Jake and imho someone will get a 10 yr player when they take him but as much as I like his game is as much as I don't care for Cameron Jordan's game.
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That Locker comparison was a tad STUPID.

    Smith has the strength and quickness to be a fine LT, he had some weight issues that checked in well at the combine. I concede he has higher bust potential than Gabe or Costanzo but also has the skillset to be much better.

    If by saying Ireland pulls an Odrick you mean another DL, I will stop being a fan of this team before Jacksonville gets their pick in. DL is by far not a need position it is where we are the deepest imo.
     
  14. Fin-Omenal

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    Jordan has so much versatility i think he goes before some of the other DL right or wrong. He will be the Tyson Aluala, Tyson Jackson of this draft....DL who gained some momentum late in the draft who ended up overdrafted.
     
  15. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    My point is that it’s tough to say a guy has a high ceiling at a position he’s never played. Put him there, see how he plays, then grade him based on how he’s projected to improve with more experience and coaching. I have Smith’s ceiling lower than Castonzo’s and even Carimi’s, because I don’t think he’d be as good at LT as they would.

    By “pulling an Odrick”, I mean making a not-obvious selection that requires some mental gymnastics (and possibly roster reconfiguration) to understand, and is questionable whether or not the move addresses any serious need. Taking Gabe Carimi to play RT, for example, would be pulling an Odrick. Drafting Jimmy Smith would be pulling an Odrick. Julio Jones, if he falls, would also be pulling an Odrick.
     
  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I wont be "Odrick'd" with any OL position personally because it was the reason our whole offense was crap last season. A Carimi, Pouncey pick and Im happy.

    Jimmy Smith is a player I dont care for, and imo it isnt a position of huge need so yes I would be very pissed with that selection. I also think we are better than people think at WR but if Jones fell to #15 I guess I could live with it.
     
  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. Quarterback play is the reason why our offense was crap, and the best way to improve QB play is to improve the QB, not the OL.

    The bigger point is that Carimi would play the same position as a guy with a $42 million contract. So you either move Carimi out of position or you move the guy with the $42 million contract out of position. It won’t end well either way.

    Both picks would be nothing more than Ireland skirting around the glaring problems on the roster.

    #15 must be a quarterback. I’m pessimistic about that happening, though.
     
  18. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Danny Watkins is a darkhorse in Miami. I am positive he is.
     
  19. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    If we trade down and come away with Watkins and Ponder, I’ll take back every bad thing I’ve ever said about Jared Odrick.
     
  20. Fin-Omenal

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    Carimi is projected as a RT in the NFL even if he CAN handle the left side.

    And your missing the point when it comes to an offense thriving. Yes, Henne was mediocre Im not a Henne lover. But the guy didnt have much to work with. You need balance to succeed offensively unless you are lucky enough to have 3-4 QB's in this league who are good enough to overcome that.

    If your an average QB trying to develop you need...

    A running game, a dangerous running game keeps the defense nervous about what you do next. Why didnt we have a solid running game? Ill say 70% OL play and 30% R&R. Our offense was constantly is 2nd and 10 and 3rd and longs and with no real threat of speed on the outside it was very easy for defenses to stop Miami. And WHY were we in 2nd and 3rd and longs? Lack of yardage from the running game.

    Football is a chess match more than a im coming stop me league these days and our offense didnt provide the balance needed to execute much, I mean it was so obvious to me what was going to happen in most situations nearly every drive.

    Henne sucked no question but also lacked the surroundings so IMO we cant just plug another young guy in there unless we upgrade the OL, Running game via FA and/or the draft. You put Mallett in the surroundings you had Henne in last season? Oh yea...he's ****ed too.
     
  21. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I’m not missing the point, I just disagree with it. Quarterbacks win games. Running backs don’t.

    I disagree again. We’re in an era where rookies are increasingly contributing immediately, even rookie QBs. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Sam Bradford, Tom Brady, Josh Freeman all come to mind. I would expect any QB we take to compete in camp immediately for a starting spot, and with the way Henne’s playing, likely win. This year’s crop of QBs has at least 3 immediate starters: Cam Newton (by virtue of position as the likely #1 overall pick), Christian Ponder (by virtue of pro readiness and intelligence), and Ryan Mallett (by virtue of succeeding in a pro style offense in college).

    The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds this year all have quality, starting-caliber interior offensive linemen and running backs. They don’t have starting-caliber quarterbacks.
     
  22. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    And I said Im okay with us taking a QB at 15 as long as we upgrade the OL, and RB position one way or the other.

    Gabbert, Mallett you put them in Henne's shoes last season you will get much of the same results. Unless their is a special once in a lifetime QB here those odds are too much to overcome.

    Qb's do win games and are more important than running backs we DONT disagree on that front, where we disagree is what we think makes a QB succeed.

    I think 90% of Quarterbacks need the right surroundings to be succesfull, I think you think getting a good QB will solve the problem of our offense and it just wont imo.

    Give me a solid OL, solid running game and you can get good qb play out of an average QB. Give me a bad OL with no running game you can make a good QB become very average.
     
  23. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    We can do that in the middle rounds this year. The likely OL scenario going into 2011 is John Jerry starting at RG, competition between Incognito and Berger at C, and a rookie LG. We can get that rookie LG outside of the first round. Same thing with RBs, we can snag guys in the middle rounds. I like Shane Vereen, maybe paired up with Dion Lewis.

    What really worries me is Ireland’s statement that he’s assuming no FAs will come back and he has to fill needs in the draft. I hope it’s BS, because there WILL be free agency somehow.
     
  24. Fin-Omenal

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    Im all for Mallett and have been for a long time, my point is you better shore up a few other things or Mallett is not going to give you anymore than Henne did.

    My best case scenario?

    Draft Mallett at 15, draft a Rodney Hudson in the 3rd, get a Jacob Bell in FA, double up on RB's in the 4th and 5th range make a STRONG puch for D.Williams and all of a sudden you have an offense that can thrive.
     
  25. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    We’re not in disagreement, though I admit Mallett is my last ditch QB.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think that is the way you have to draft because when free agency does happen, you do not know what will happen. Counting on a certain player coming back, and then they do not, leaves a big hole on the team.
     
  27. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Too late, we already have big holes.
     
  28. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Que?
     
  29. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, my mistake. I misremembered that Brady came off the bench in 2001, not 2000.

    Still, point stands.
     

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