Cold Hard Football Facts: The Case for Vince Young

He leads the league (among active players) in alleged suicide attempts.

 

Mort said that the team discussed Young, and decided against it.

 

With so many teams needing QBs, don't see it that way. There is some speculation Young could end up in Philly, as a backup.

 

Vince Young would work, as long as its on the cheap.

 

I'm mixed. The dude is clearly off his rocker, and I really want to believe that Henne can be the guy. In all honesty, I have zero confidence in either one of them. At least Young would make the season more interesting.

 

Career team winning percentage of 63.8. Young doesn't play in a vacuum. As of late, he's been a loser more than a winner.

Who? "All World Pro" Kerry Collins? Rookie phenom Rusty Smith? His coach would rather start an old beat up Kerry Collins or a terrible rookie Rusty Smith than Young. You're pretending like the other QB's were particularly good. Winning isn't everything, Young has a bad attitude about him.

Good rating with a Top 2 RB in the league, solid option in Bo Scaife, and a young beast of a WR who plays good regardless of QB. Kenny Britt is just incredible. He's also had a great defense. Tennesee's PPG on offense (ranking) from 2010 going back to 2008 is 17, 16, and 14. Highest PPG being 23.4. 2009 was their worst year of defense. In 2008 they were ranked number 2 in scoring defense (Kerry Collins played most of this year), and 2010 they were 15th in scoring defense giving up less than they scored.

NFL's second best running QB....okay. Quick! Last running QB to win a SB? For all the running he did, how far did Vick get? And Young is no Mike Vick. He's light years behind Vick.

Two time Pro-Bowler. I'm pretty sure 2009 he got in because Peyton dropped out. But let's look at his stats those years (2006 & 2009):



Hardly Pro-Bowl worthy. It's a popularity contest. The fact that Vince Young and London Fletcher have the same amount of Pro-Bowls is a joke. Btw, his career rating is 75.7. Henne's is 75.3.

ORoY is not a current accomplishment.

Nope, Facts are facts.

 

Hm. It’s interesting that you’ll cite CHFF in this instance, since they disagree with your positions on football in general, especially your emphasis on rushing attempts as a means to victory.

 

Vince Young is awful. No thanks.

 

"Lately a loser more than winner"?? 8-2 then 4-4. what kind of math is that?

You're right, Vince hasn't played in a vacuum--he's played on BAD teams--his first year, the team was 0-3, he came in as a rookie and went 8-5. Year 2 he played the whole year (10-6, playoffs). Year 3 (CJs rookie year), he didn't play. Year 4, team starts 0-6, after a 59-0 loss to NE, when Collins went 2-12 for -7 (yes, NEGATIVE 7) yards, the owner STILL had to force vy in, Vince comes in and goes 8-2. Year 5, he goes 4-4 as starter, although a couple losses were very winnable when he got injured/taken out (esp. Redskins game). Team goes 2-6 without him. How can you refute those cold hard facts? The teams were the same, and he blatantly improved them in every instance. Since 06, Young is 30-17 as starter. Collins is 15-17...

On his teammates--Bo Scaife sucks. Vince has had CJ for only 2 half-seasons (collins played 08). Britt was good THIS year (and will get better, but he's not B-marsh good YET), but not so much his rookie year in 09. And Before CJ?..he had studs like Lendale White, Brandon Jones (who?) and Roydell Williams leading the attack. The Tenn offensive scoring was #1 this year before Vince went down, (and Collins is also responsible for all of 08, and the first 6 games of 09) so please don't cite misleading stats like that.

And you're right, ROY is old news, but so are the passer ratings that bring down his career one. if you wanna use "current" info, why use a young QBs career rating, why not use the most recent ratings--83, 98...(Henne's are both 75)

 

Team winning % or record is not a case for any QB unless that player also plays defense and kicks. Even then he better be really good in all three phases of the game in order to justify putting a win or loss on him.

 

Obviously he's a huge risk because he's a headcase but I don't think there's much question that he's a better QB than Chad Henne. One of Henne's problems IMO has been his lack of athleticism. Something VY has in spades.

 

If Miami ends up signing Vince Young, unless it's to be a Running Back, I think I'll puke....

 

His trend is clearly up. QBR is obvious. YPA (one of my favorites) is also way up--8 ypa this year..very good. TD-INT trend is much better (10-3 this year). He's reading the defenses better, making all the throws and check downs, looking like a really good passer. Pretty much any passing stat is getting better..

Interestingly, his running stats seem to be trending down, although he still shows the same speed as before. The difference is that a) he is running less and b) Even when he does run, he is somewhat hesitant and has become more likely to slide or get out of bounds instead of juking guys. Unfortunately, I think the coaches/media have gotten into his head a little TOO well when it comes to being a "pocket passer" and protecting himself from injury. I think his next coach would do very well to loosen the reigns a little and encourage him to use his talent some more.

Injuries--none in '09 that i remember. This year, he had a few minor injuries (i think leg), but played in every game until the thumb. Touch to say how bad they were--he left the JAX game early, but it was already a blowout win so there was no need to come back in. And then the MIA game, he didn't start but wanted to, and when he came in he looked fast/healthy as ever (which is part of what built up his frustration leading up to the blowup). Then there was the thumb--this was sort of flukish--He threw a deep bomb, and on his follow-through hit the thumb on a helmet. And again it's tough to say how bad it was (he thought he could play through it fine, but wasn't allowed to)

 

Another thing people forget about Vince Young...the guy is CLUTCH.

7 4th quarter comebacks and 12 game winning drives in his short 5 year (really closer to 3 bc of '08+benchings/injuries) career. Some have been spectacular.. coming back from 21-down in the 4th against the Giants (i think they won the SB that year), a 99-yd 2-minute drill with a TD on 4th and clock at 0 against the Cards in '09, a 40 yd TD run in OT against his hometown Texans in his rookie year...

We all know he had this rep in college, but it has stayed strong in TN.

source is profootballreference .com ---great site for those interested

 

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6569714

 

It's been repeated, but Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are not athletic. Joe Flacco is not athletic and Dolphin fans love him.

 

Padre you know I respect you right? But PLEASE GET OFF THE TEASE THAT IS VINCE YOUNG!!!!!!!

Stas smats, Vince Young is a major risk, that risk is so high of bust that the reward is not worth it. He is a 1 read qb, he is a headcase. Yes qbs can tuyrn it around, but many want to condemn a youg qb after 25 starts but try to revive a major bust after how many starts? the 25 starts from Henne are enough to write him off but VY is a reclamation project after 5 or 6 years? Pads man it dont make sense to me. VY was givin numerous chances, if henne had beengiven as many as VY I would be just as fed up and we would be done with him. VY is not a good risk, he is a pipe dream, a fantasy of what was envisioned at some point in the past. Yes he could turn it around, but again the place where he is most likely to do that is going to a team that isnt looking for a franchise guy, a team that will start him as a clear backup, a team that wont have expectations for him, where he can breathe and commit himself under the radar. We aint it

 

He is a bust he won games yes but alot or most with his legs, or threat of. When it counted and when it was time to play or go home. Tenn went home. He has not shown any ability as a leader, he has never shown teh ability to pick the team up on his shoulders and carry them when it counts. A Hall of Fame coach left his job because of a lack of confidence in teh guy, and that team that took VY side is letting him walk for nothing. Winning qbs with upside arent cut, period, thats the truth

I was a VY guy coming out of college and thought in teh right environment he could become a good passer. He mentally has not shown a desire to become great, he doesnt care. I dont see that as changing

 

Ok so all we care about is some regular season wins and not champ? When has VY stepped up when it counted? When has shown heart? when has his passing abililties shown that he cares about it?

Yes Vick was cut, as should have been. When Philli signed him did they throw him into teh fire? did they do it with the expectations he was thee guy? or did they have a guy OR 2 already they liked?

 

You can never have enough young QBs on a team. Especially experienced, cheap and winning ones.

[/ARGUMENT]

 

Kind of funny that as much baggage as VY carries with him. I'd be more excited to see him than Henne. Ugh.

And I usually cradle and nurture our draft picks. But I can't do it with Henne. I still had hope for Ginny and Jason Allen!

 

I think the chance of Ireland or fist pumper taking any chances with VY is slim to none and slim left town. I don't think it's much of a risk as VY won't require a draft pick to get a hold of.

 

Unfortunately Padre, I think we're fighting a pointless battle here. As is the case with plenty of athletes and especially VY, there are people that will always base their arguments off of what ESPN told them his 3 years ago, despite having not watched a recent game of his, and will never open their minds to the possibility that he has improved and that ESPN doesn't give you the full picture. If these people would open their minds and look at the evidence or had watched his FULL games, then this argument would be unnecessary.

The truth is that Vince is NO LONGER a 1 read passer or an inaccurate thrower. His "mental problems" are not permanent--they are a result of a one-time situation. (BTW JMH you got it backwards, Fisher left/was forced out after Vince was gone...the Titans rightfully got rid of both independently).
I truly don't understand how people can call VY a "pipe dream" when he had a 98 QB rating (and the eye-test to go with it) THIS SEASON, and when he is one of the winningest active QBs in the NFL (and by far the winningest in Titans/Oilers history). Vince is now plenty capable of making multiple reads, and can make any throw on the field. He proved it over and over these last 2 years, to the surprise of many. Maybe he couldn't in his rookie or 2nd year, but those times are in the past. In the draft, everyone knew Vince would need some adjustment time to the NFL, but that got thrown out the window when they started 0-3 that year. Anyone who sticks with the "Can't read the D, can't throw accurate" argument is stuck in 2007.

As for performance in big moments, just see my post at the top of the page. (At one point IIRC he set some kind of record for most 4th quarter comebacks at a certain age or something.) He has led his team to the playoffs once, and every other year he has played, he has either inherited a terrible team (0-3 as a rookie, 0-6 in '09--yet he got 1 game away from the playoffs in both instances), or been hurt midway through the year (this year). So how the heck can you put that on him? Do you realize that the '09 team set all sorts of NFL records for biggest turnarounds after such a bad start? This year they were either in the division lead or within one game back (can't remember), when he got pulled out of the tied Redskins game (eventual loss on his record) and out for the year. So yes, he lost his one playoff game, but you can hardly blame him for not getting any more chances (the Titans also lost their one playoff game in '08 as the 1 seed with Collins).
And say what you want, but the AFCS has actually been a tough division. We all know what the Colts have done. And the division is actually pretty deep. Houston has emerged as a top offensive team, the Jags have had their moments, and there is never a truly awful team. In '07 for instance (Vince's playoff year), 3 AFCS teams made the playoffs, with Houston in last at 8-8. Not bad.

And JMH, while I disagree that he has a "high chance of bust" given his performance in Tenn and the weapons we have, with that aside, what is the risk? A small, 2-4 year incentive-laden contract? No draft picks, less money than Orton or Palmer, and at the very least, you have a dynamic backup who can come in and completely change the offensive look if Henne is struggling. I would say that, in fact, Vince presents the least risk of any of the bigtime FAs and even a high draft pick next year..

Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in the rumors that "experts" are putting out there, especially now with the lockout and all (teams don't want to tip their hands and can't talk to players anyways). These guys are wrong all the time, and the fact that they are directly contradicting each other just proves that. Every once-in-a-while these guys get something right (the Kolb to AZN thing seems to pretty legit--good for us), but when they say they "think" it's dismissed, or something vague like that, I take no stock in it. So in short, I wouldn't take Clayton or Mort too seriously, we'll see what happens when the lockout is over.

 

Or maybe they've seen him play since college and are not impressed! Do you think that might be possible?

 

More like most overrated coach of the past 20 years. Has any coach ever accomplished less with such an extended tenure with one team? I doubt it. 6 seasons over .500 in 17 years. I'm sure Dolphins fans would be crying for his head on a platter. Tony has done better over his first three seasons than Fisher did in his first 3 full seasons.

 

Peyton and Tom can move around the pocket though. They are pocket aware. Chad Henne is not athletic nor knows what to do when he panics. There are different levels of Non-athleticism, and Henne's just seems to be really bad because he doesn't know where to move.