Pretty please Irish..

It all depends on how much you can get him for. The fact is, there isn't much value-added from someone that is overpaid.

 

We got good play for a late round pick, so we did get something. But again, what happens with him going forward all depends on price.

 

I like McD quite a bit. But, if we could use him as part of a trade (+4th rd pick) to get someone like Orton, I'd feel WAY better than just trading a 2nd rounder for Orton. I know it hurts our depth, but our front office has done a nice job restocking our defensive line, hopefully they can get another bargain on the FA market this summer.

 

McD is a free agent

 

I would love to sign him. Having in the rotation will help keep Miami's d-line awesome.

 

If you keep Merling and cut ties with McDaniel, that just ain't right.

Langford, Soliai, Starks, McDaniel, Odrick. Sounds damn straight to me..

 

But would the value-added be greater than if the money were spent on a TE? Or QB? Or RB? Is the difference in production between Odrick and McDaniel be worth $30M? Would that difference be greater than the difference between Mickey Shuler and Zach Miller, for example?

How much would you say the added-value of a 3rd defensive end worth?

 

How much is keeping 2 #1 picks on the bench to give McD work worth?

Love McD's game, DT/DE/NT, Merling and Odie are not here for their health though.

 

Doesn't count anything against the salary cap.

They aren't, but not even counting them as starters, you have two other options at DE that aren't requiring new contracts.

 

I just can't see Jeff Ireland shelling out big money for Tony McDaniel. Personally, I don't think he's anything outstanding. He's certainly not better than Randy Starks or Kendall Langford, that much is for sure.

And, again, I bring up the fact that Jared Odrick beat him out for a starting spot going into the season when Randy Starks was at NT. When Odrick went down, did McDaniel get that starting spot? No, they bumped Randy Starks back and plugged in Paul Soliai at NT. Obviously that decision paid off with regard to Soliai. Considering that, I don't think the coaching staff or Jeff Ireland would be compelled to pay Tony McDaniel what he's going to want.

If Tony McDaniel wants to start, it's not going to be in Miami.

 

Well sure, he could make as much of an impact as any defensive FA, but does that say much? Is there really anyone at a defensive position of need we will be going after in FA? I'm not sure.

What I am sure of, is that we just gave Dansby a big contract. We're going to have to give Cameron Wake a big contract. We're going to have to re-sign Kendall Langford. We're going to have to pay Soliai. The salary cap is going to be back, and this team is going to have to be selective in terms of giving out money. Personally, I like McDaniel, but at the same time you need to place a value on him. I don't think what the Dolphins will value of him as will be as much as some teams with less talent at that position.

 

I wouldn't do that, because you'd still be paying McD more money than you would be paying Langford next year. I also think it'd be hard to get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Langford. And to be quite honest, I'm not even sure I'd take McD over Odrick, as Odrick is a better passrusher IMO, which brings a lot of value to that position.

I understand your desire not to let McD walk without getting anything in return. But thats the way the NFL works. Bad teams end up getting good players, all in the name of parity.

 

Agree 100%. I can see a team like the Redskins being much more willing to give McD starter money, which I'm sure he's looking for. And the 4-6 million we'd have to pay to keep him is better spent elsewhere. For me, it's RB or LG. But DE is arguably the strongest position on the team, no need to splurge there IMO.

 

Mcdaniel will start for another 3-4 team. Even though I like him a lot, I'd rather use the cash to maybe lock up Soliai, Wake, and Langford or get a better offensive guard or running back.

 

I agree with your thinking but, would still sign McD. Starks is getting $3.6M and $3.7M before becoming a 29 year old FA. Merling is at $700K and a FA next year. Odrick, after his guaranteed money, is only at $405, $568, $700, and $765K. Langford and Soliai will get big bucks, and we really need them.

We very well could loose Merling next year, Starks the year after, and we don't know what we have in Odrick. Add in the chance of injury and our strength could quickly become very thin.

I'm not comfortable with only 5 guys on the DL who can play.

 

I think a lot of you are underestimating his value to this defense. If I'm not mistaken, he plays the pass rush NT on passing downs/3rd downs in our 3-4 scheme. I can't really see anyone else on our defense (other than maybe Starks, but I would like to keep Starks at DE permanently) that can slide in and out at DE and NT as well as MCD.

Plus, his dreads fit perfectly with our dread headed defense.

Bring him back and we have hands down the deepest defensive line in the league.

 

Sign , keep and start MCD ,then make the best trade you can with one of the other DE's ... makes best use of your talent and depth , and as I have said many times , and sure people are tired of hearing , I think MCD is a burgeoning , big time , bonafide moster and if it is my choice, he starts and plays for Miami , and we deal someone and get better overall.

 

Well, towards the end of the season on 3rd downs, the Dolphins went more with a 4-man line consisting of Cam Wake and Quentin Moses playing as DEs and Kendall Langford and Phillip Merling on the inside. I think McDaniel got phased out of that role more and more as the season wore on, and certainly Jared Odrik will eat some of the snaps in that formation as he's most experienced playing inside in an alignment like that. McDaniel played more and more exclusively in the base 3-4 pacakge as part of the rotation.

I think when you look at his production, 36 tackles and 2.5 sacks, whose to say Jared Odrick or Phillip Merling couldn't do that? And I think if you're going to throw money at a free agent, someone like Cliff Avril (8.5 sacks last year) can probably go above and beyond McDaniel's sack production while you get guys like Odrick and Merling who can provide the same production in the base 3-4 with their snaps.

Again, I point to the fact that the coaches moved Randy Starks back to DE when Odrick went down rather than bumping McDaniel up. They trusted Paul Soliai to handle the nose more than they trusted McDaniel to handle a starter's share of the snaps - I think that's quite telling.

 

This here.

There's only so many snaps to go around. Our 3-4 DEs got 2269 snaps last season(Including passing down DT, NT, 4-man line DE, etc). Our starters both got 750 last year. How are you going to cut up the remaining part of the pie? You've got about a starting workload worth of snaps left there. Splitting those remaining snaps would give McDaniels a lesser workload than he had in 2010, and give Odrick less than the coaching staff seemed committed to giving him in 2010 when he earned a starting job, and virtually no snaps for Merling or any developmental prospects.

Let McDaniels walk, give Odrick the bulk of the remaining snaps. All of them, if he earns it. Merling is under contract, it's not a crime if he gets 200-300 snaps.

 

I'd be a little more willing to accept losing McD if I wasn't so dam concerned about Odie's leg recovery.

 

Difference is Merling is already signed cheap for 2011. McD is a UFA. I want him back too, but wonder how high the FO will go to retain him. He repeats several times how much he wants to be a starter and with the 3 guys in front of him, that ain't likely in Miami. I see no dropoff when he is in the game and if he did start ahead of Starks or Langford, we'd be just as effective IMO. No matter who rotated in vs who was out there for the first defensive series or 2. We may have to outbid a team who would assure him of starting, but then again he may come back to Miami in the same role for equal money.

 

Good point about McD not just moving into the starting job when Odrick was injured or not beating him out in camp in the first place.
The McD of 2011 may well be better than the one from last camp and we don't know what we got in Odrick from the standpoint of staying healthy. McD has proven to be durable and dependable for us. Odrick goes out and gets hurt in his first real game.
If...McD and Odrick competed for a starting job this camp, if we have one, I'd not bet against McD winning the job. It's a moot point since our 2 starters are well entrenched, but for my point of view, I'd feel much better, from what we know today, having McD as the 3rd DE.

 

I'm trying to look at the short, mid, and long term advantages of signing McD, as things now stand. This could be the worst FA class ever. We're not going to sign a high priced LB who will take snaps from Misi or a TE after re-signing Fasano, although we will look for a pass rush and TE backups. Hopefully the money goes to RB, QB, and maybe an OG.

IF we re-sign McD, we buy time and options. Time in camp, pre-season, and into the season to see if Odrick is healthy, how good Merling looks, and if we have any injuries. Options in covering an injury, being able to get some value before the trade deadline, covering the potential loss of Merling next year and/or the same of Starks in two years.

We could end up overpaying McD this year but, that money may buy a pick or player, not having a hole to fill next season and/or the year after. I'm also considering Starks salary being applied to McD after the second year. We also can't be sure what will happen with Langford. It does make sense to me for this team, at this time.

 

I would just say that as a counterpoint to that, as Disgustipate mentioned, bringing back McDaniel takes away snaps from Odrick and Merling, guys who are both under contract. It's unlikely that McDaniel would unseat Kendall Langford or Randy Starks; Odrick probably has a better chance to do so than McDaniel.

And, if you're going to bring McDaniel back, you're going to have to pay the man. And giving money to him now probably means you can't go after DeAngelo Williams and a Cliff Avril type of guy. You're probably going to have to settle for an Ahmad Bradshaw and someone no better than Quentin Moses. And you're willing to make that trade off for a guy who's going to get very limited snaps?

No thanks.

 

I don't disagree, but for me it all boils down to whether we should give starter money to a backup DE, when we already have 1st and 2nd round picks playing backup DE. Starks-Langford-Odrick-Merling are a solid group, now take a look at RB. We don't have a proven guy anywhere on the roster & yet we're supposed to be this smash mouth running team. I'd much rather sign a DeAngelo Williams, who could give us 600-700 snaps and play at a Pro-Bowl level than pay McDaniel, who'd be giving us maybe a third of those snaps while not playing at a Pro Bowl level. I know Williams will cost more than McD, but IMO we'd be getting more value with the RB.

 

The snap count is a fair point. Starks and Langford each had 750, with 31 of Stark's at NT.. McD had 500, with 80 inside. Dotson had 43, and Merling 117 in 5 games. When Merling came back, the avg snaps for Starks and Langford (47) dropped around 8 combined while McD (33) stayed around the same, with some inside. Also, Langford had 170 fewer snaps in 09 while being better in the pass rush. Merling had 376, McD 315. Bottom line, there are plenty of snaps to keep a 4 man rotation happy and rested.

The odd man out will be gone by contract, trade, play, or injury within a year. Who knows, we could lose Merling and Langford both, and no one is sure on Odrick. I'm not breaking the bank but do want McD back.

I can't see any way McD affects any RB. R&R were like $9M (09 number) which is much more than enough to sign any RB. I would be a whole lot less worried about McD taking snaps from Merling and Odrick than Avril, who will cost much more, taking them from Misi.

 

If Tony McDaniel's serious about his wanting to get paid, he'll cost more than Cliff Avril will, and that's assuming Avirl makes it out of Detroit. He turned it on down the stretch for them last year. I'm just not willing to give a role player like McDaniel, whose production - let's face it could be equalized or bettered by Odrick and/or Merling - big money when he's going to get so few snaps. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere rather than a 3rd, probably 4th DE in a rotation. That's my main argument with McDaniel. He wants to be a starter and get paid - that's not going to happen in Miami, and throwing him the cash he wants to be a rotational player who is probably going to lose more snaps than gain them with Odrick and Merling both back at 100%, just doesn't seem smart to me.

 

There's a lot of financial "stuff" going on. No one has a clue on if there will even be a cap this year, let alone how much it will be, or which FA (including Williams) will be available. When a deal gets done, we need to quickly get a RB, QB, and likely a few other FAs while bring in undrafted guys as well. Meanwhile we have to sort out the Soliai deal, Wake, and test the waters on 2012 FAs like Langford, Henne, Merling, etc. All this while putting in a new O and trying to get the team ready to play.

The only thing I know is who is coming off the books from last year, and roughly how much we are saving to be able to spend. I have to use 09 numbers, missing escalating contracts, some bonus info, and dead money. It should still be close.

Between Penny, Grove, J Allen, Ferg, Ronnie, Ricky, Smiley, and Cam, there is over $31M (09 salaries) gone. Add in pro rated and accelerated cap hits, dead money, and the numbers go up. I just don't know how much. Regardless, money should not be any kind of issue to sign who we want.

Penny's money could negate a FA QB. R&R far exceed any RB & Thomas. Ferg takes a big chunk out of Soliai. That still leaves ove $13M+ to fill other needs without getting creative.

 

How could McD cost more? Avril is 25 and had 9 sacks (#15 in NFL) in 13 games after 5.5 in 09. He's also a RFA with a 1st and 3rd round tender on him. Not only will he cost a lot more but a pick on top of it. He was also a 4-3 LDE last season, a bit similar to Wake in 09, but playing full time at LDE.

IF Odrick was completely healthy and proven something last year, and if Merling was not going to be a FA, and if Langford was not going to be a FA, I would likely think differently. Not the case. As I mentioned, I'm not breaking the bank for him but, do want to keep him.