http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/08/extra-blockers/ As many have pointed out in the Phins OL #3 thread, the Dolphins go to max protect a lot. PFF has them as 3rd worst in the NFL, having an average of 5.85 blockers per pass play with Detroit in the top spot at 5.3. They also say that was too much, that it hurt the team by not having additional receivers going out, and, by design or QB decision, it has been going on for two years. Well done Forum. To be fair, they do state that the Phins OL is one of the best in protection. IMO, keeping in an average of an extra half a blocker on every pass play does not seem like a lot. However, when you think about it, that's that's a whole lot of plays where a receiver could have made a play and possibly a game changing difference.
Even when Henning was younger, like as the Skins' OC, I recall lots of times only Clark, Monk and Sanders out on routes. Their run game was so good though, that they could go play action while sending out 3 and it would be against a D with 8 in the box, so the 3 had room to get open .
Regardless of Dan Henning reportedly saying the number of extra blockers kept in EVERY pass play was all up to Henne, I ain't buying it. Considering how little flexibility the QB gets in other aspects, like the actual play call, it seems like a stretch to believe Old Dan when he said Henne always got to decide how many extra pass blockers on each play. At least for me anyway. YMMV.
Yep, and that was why the redskins Te's rarely caught the ball. Do think it is clear the Offense was very cautious in 2010.
To me, I really don't care who made the decision, just that we fix it, same as mixing up Henne's dropbacks, same as being able to run so play action matters, and so on, and so on. So far, Dabol and Sparano did say the dropbacks will be mixed, we did draft Thomas and Pouncey, while waiting for a FA, to run, and Gates will be taking the place of an extra blocker on a number of those pass plays if not a total bust, with Clay as a wild card. These are all steps in the right direction.
Didn't Sparano call for the protection every time he pulled out his maxi pad? or was that just so he could show his ***? Don't hate, girfriend...
I notice Pro Football Focus said the max protect "trend" for the Dolphins has been going on for TWO years...and not THREE years. Hmm. What could possibly be different about this team, from 2008 to 2009-2010? Dan Henning was still the offensive coordinator. Tony Sparano was still the head coach. Racking my brain here...
I'd like to think (well, hope) that it's somewhere in between. The coaches probably preached to protect the football and if Henne thought the rush was coming he should protect himself. Also, Henne might have taken it a bit too much to heart and called protections when they just weren't necessary. Wasn't he actually really effective passing against the blitz though?
Good against the blitz, bad under pressure. Which really just goes along with what we're discussing here. Teams that blitzed Henne let him off the hook for his protection calls. Eventually teams picked up on it though.
Nope. PFF Article from April 2010 http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/04/11/2009-offensive-line-rankings-%E2%80%94-12-1/ We were 3rd in pass protectors/ pass play in 2010 w/ Henne. We were 1st in 2008 w/ Pennington.
You're assuming the QB was responsible for the max pro calls, which would be a mistake. Or a convenient excuse to bash Henne.
Ive always worried about Henne's lack of athleticism and inability to shuffle and reset while eyes are downfield, Ive stated many times {since he was drafted} that if he failed in this league, it would be because of it..I did see some slight improvements but not enough to make me 100 percent confident in his overall skillset.. I know this team can play better football with Henne just by balancing out the team and giving him some players that can create on their own. but my worry is when the tempo increases in the playoffs, can a QB function strictly from the pocket without making some improvisational plays with his feet, even if there just in the pocket, and still win playoff football.. Thats my only concern about Henne..
Honestly? two reasons: -avoid negative plays no matter what, toss the ball away, go max protect, whatever it takes do not suffer turnovers or sacks -no running game, when our PA fakes are as in effective as they have been for 3 yrs, there is little a statue such as Henne can do to slow down the rush the usual "cures" -PA passes -Draw plays -Screens -Statue of Liberty Have not worked in Miami since the days of Marino, a draw play to pat cobbs is not going to scare any defense, a screen pass has not been effective consistently in Miami in 25 yrs etc which is another reason why "Chad Henne is a really easy Qb to defend". Add in he is not running anywhere on his own and we have what we had.
You're assuming that the calls were made at the LOS. Another mistake. Depending on the play call, RBs and TEs may be assigned to run routes, pass block, or check blitz then release. Henne may have had the option of keeping extra guys in to protect, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he had the option of sending extra guys out. Marshall complained that Henne refused to change the called routes at the line and that Thigpen was willing to do so, I think you have the quote in your sig. Thigpen got his *** chewed for changing the calls, even though one of them resulted in a TD. If changing a WRs route caused an immediate *** chewing, and Marshall is complaining about a lack of audibles then I'm not sure how any objective person could assume that Henne had some carte blanche authority to cancel blocking assignments and send as many receivers into the pattern as he wanted. In 2008 Chad Pennington led the league w/ a 66% completion rate vs the blitz (Football Outsiders) while Miami led the league in pass protectors per pass play. It would appear as though we attempted to have the same type of success w/ Henne, but I cant say for sure. There are so many factors to consider that trying to pin it on this or that it's impossible, for a lesser mind like my own at least.
Great link. This was a philosophy, folks. Sure, I think they amped it up when they gave the team over to a young QB. And I'm sure Henne made some calls that helped contribute to the stats. But this is not a Chad Henne issue. This was a Dan Henning/Tony Sparano issue.
If you're a stat person, this validates what many of us have been saying...that our OL was putrid for the most part last season...Thanks Southbeach...
Yes. But also really not very effective when passing on non-blitz defenses. He "bought" increased production against the blitz with decreased production against non-blitzing defenses. What I found was in his 13 games where Henne was the sole QB playing the game, he wasted 4.2 extra protectors for every extra (5th or more) pass rusher. But in the 3 games where he either didn't play (Chicago) or only played partially (Tennessee, New England), our offense wasted only 2.3 extra protectors for every extra pass rusher. The problem SEEMED to be focused on Chad Henne. And I have to reiterate that when I did that number for other teams in this league I didn't find a single one bigger than I think 2.1 or maybe it was 2.2 extra blockers per extra rusher. Chad Pennington in 2008 used only 2.0 extra blockers per extra rusher. That's the amount Peyton and Brady used. Other guys, particularly the younger players use LESS blockers. They get the opposite problem, keeping everyone on their routes and not anticipating the blitz, using their physical ability to make the play even in the face of a blitz. I think Mark Sanchez used only 1.3 extra blockers per extra rusher, for example. League average seemed to be around 1.7 or so. Which makes that 4.2 figure even more obscene.
They picked up on it for most all of 2010. It was 2009 when they hadn't quite picked up on it. The worst was this year the New England game. That game, the Patriots actually rushed less than 4 men per pass snap. My tally of "extra" rushers was actually at -9. And yet during the game, Chad Henne used 34 backs and tight ends to stay in and protect for him. What I'd love to do is just get a real smoking gun. If I had access to the snap data on PFF, I could tally straight up...how many times Chad Henne sent 3 men out on routes against 7 men in coverage, how many times he sent 3 men against 8 men in coverage, etc. That's where the rubber meets the road.
Have you tallied it? Blockers per pass play was at 5.6 with Chad Pennington in 2008, and 5.8 with Chad Henne in 2009, and 5.9 with Henne in 2010. And regardless, if everyone is blitzing you, you're justified for keeping people in to help with that. We faced a lot of blitzing defenses in 2008 with Pennington, because he's not known for being very mobile and he has a pea shooter for an arm. That's why even with his 5.6 blockers per pass snap in 2008, he only used 2.0 extra blockers for every extra pass rusher, which is within norm.
Huh. So I guess when Gruden does all those QB camps with his incoming rookies and tells them they're going to have to make all these protection calls in the NFL, I guess he's lying. I guess in the NFL QBs are not responsible for making the protection calls. And I guess Dan Henning flat out lied later in the year when he said that the quarterback makes those protection calls. You want to talk about making arguments out of "convenience"...I'd say accusing a man (not to his face) of straight up lying, and making light of it, is an argument of convenience.
What??? The play is always going to assign routes or blocking responsibilities to RBs and TEs. Its the QBs responsibility to make adjustments based upon his pre-snap read. Dan Henning has stated so himself without any qualification. There is no evidence that Chad Henne operated outside of the NFL norm. If you're suggesting that Chad Henne was not tasked with making protection calls at the LOS, something every QB is required to do, then that is as big of an indictment against Chad Henne as you will find.
The numbers I posted were from PFF and Football Outsiders: So if we were 3rd in 2010 as PFF claimed, that would be a drop from 1st in both 08 and 09. Of course I don't subscribe to the theory that the QB is the chief decider of how many receivers go into patterns on a strategic level. QBs set protections (identify the Mike LB), identify hot receivers, etc. But, O lineman also call protections, the Center primarily, but the guards and tackles make calls also. I haven't seen any evidence that Henne ever had the authority to cancel a blocking assignment and send a back or TE into a pattern. I'm not sure which protection schemes our OL used, man, zone/slide, combo, etc, but IMO that has more to do w/ whether/when our backs and TEs are releasing than Henne coming to the line and telling Ronnie or Ricky to "stay in and block b/c I'm scared of the blitz". A quick look at the top success rates (completion percentage) for QB's when blitzed. 1. Brees 3. Rodgers 4. Rivers 5. Schaub Coming in at #2? Chad Henne. 63.7%. I've heard your argument that he "bought" success by using extra blockers, maybe-maybe not. But seeing as how we led the league in max pro in 08-09, I think it's possible that teams stopped blitzing us and that our offense (not just our QB) failed to adjust. You may want to put it all on Henne, which isn't surprising given the tone of your posts in general. But football is a team sport and explanations which involve blaming 1 person are wrong 90% of the time. Teams also stopped using 8 men in the box as frequently as they did in 08-09, probably a response to our inability to run the ball. They also adjusted to our almost exclusive use of 5 and 7 step drops, and our frequent play action calls in obvious passing situations. The offense was stale and predictable, period. But you can't put that all on the QB, IMO.
Correct, the PLAY CALL, from the OC, has built in routes and protection calls. The backs & TEs are either running routes, blocking, or checking blitz and then releasing. Obviously the QB sets the protection, identifies hot WRs, and can call for extra protection. I can agree that there were too many guys being left in to block, but the assumption you're making is that Henning was calling all these exotic 4-5 man routes and that Henne was calling for extra protection unnecessarily. I haven't seen anything that suggest that to be the case, nor any evidence that Henne had the authority to overrule Henning and send additional receivers into the pattern. I'd need a playbook and access to the play calls themselves to determine who was responsible for the pass pro strategy, but if you want to talk NFL norm then it's the OCs job to make those decisions, especially when he has a young QB to bring along. Mark Sanchez was given a red-yellow-green light system to help keep him from turning the ball over. If Henne has some serious weakness calling protections, then Henning should've been working to fix it, not going on camera to cry Uncle.
Mark Sanchez had a red-yellow-green light system installed for him, not for wasting protectors, for wasting possessions. Feel better?
We have the words that came out of the coach's mouths. We also have data on our offense with Dan Henning before he had Chad Henne as his QB. There was a significant increase in blockers per rusher when Chad Henne took over. Again, we are talking about pre-snap reads. These decisions are made when the defense lines up, and the QB identifies his keys. Unless you are suggesting the OC is giving the QB his reads as he stands at the line. That is the norm for the NFL. Mark Sanchez is an awful QB, and by no means the norm.
Again, we're talking about a similar number of pass protectors vs. a decreased number of pass rushers. Not some drastic rise in the number of pass protectors being kept in. We were 1st in max pro w/ both Henne and Penny. There are several factors that could've led to our opponents blitzing less. The arrival or Marshall, the departure of the running game, scouting reports which indicate we overuse max pro, or that Henne is better vs. man than zone. Perhaps another factor I haven't thought of. I'm suggesting that Henne is the not the only one in charge of the protections, all OL make protection calls, WRs identify secondary blitzers, RB must read LBs and DE's to decide whether or not to release. It's a TEAM thing. Certain protection types make it difficult for backs and TEs to release, and some play calls straight up call for them to block. It's possible (probable IMO) that the coaching and/or design of the offense is responsible, yet you're talking as if it was 100% Henne's decision. And you have no way of knowing that. In a B.O.B. protection the LBs must be accounted for by the backs and TEs, in a slide protection, the a RB must defend the edge opposite the slide, in a gap control (zone) blocking scheme, backs typically have the edges. It's up to the play caller to decide which schemes to use, and whether to emphasize attacking the secondary vs. protecting the QB. Clearly, our offense erred on the side of caution. I doubt that was Henne's decision though.
So what your saying is that the egregiously high increase in blockers in relation to rushers from 08-09-10 was the fault of everyone else but Chad Henne. What other positions got worse aside from QB???
5.6 to 5.8 is egregious? Wow. In PoFo, that's called spin. The number didn't jump to 7 or something. The rushers went down while the blockers were slightly higher. 5.6 to 5.8 or so is statistically insignificant. As for your final question, the running backs. The Special Teams. The overall Tight End position, The offensive line (injury city).
Well, SB that is not so, Henne did not regress by any statisitical measure, he was the SAME Qb in 09 that he was in 2010, the only real difference was a slight increase in YPG passing, the real decline in 2010's offence was found in the running game's production from #4 to #22 and in terms of a huge reduction in TD's scored via running the ball. Matt Williamson compared Dan Thomas to Steven Jackson..we can only hope as that will cure all manner of ills in terms of offensive output.
Again, for those who didn't get it the first time.... When Chad Pennington was QB, we had 2.0 extra blockers per extra pass rusher. Chad Henne had 4.2 last year. By all appearances, that is an egregious number. GMJ said this was not just a function of Chad Henne's protection calls, but a function of every player on the field. I then asked which players aside from Henne were responsible for this embarrassingly bad increase from 2 to 4.2.
