Ireland Must Be The Best "Player" In FA

John Clayton has a fascinating, and probably accurate, theory on how this will work.

Agents will do 2 for 1 negotiations, for example Santonio Holmes shares an agent with Randy Moss, with such a small window, making a deal for both at the same time is more efficient.

Young signed on with Tom Condon in 2010, Condon was also the agent for...Jake Long and Chad Pennington, whose release from the Jets parallels a bit Young's impending release from the Titans, but Penny did take a under market deal to come to Miami so it will be interesting to see if Young is willing to do the same or if Condon wants the big dollars for Young.

 

I'm beginning to suspect the same thing, the only problem is, if Clayton's theory is correct I'm not sure who else he'd rep that we would want to sign>? I cannot seem to find a list of who is represented by whom, for example "if" Condon represented Pouncey then such a deal would make tremendous sense, however Pouncey is represented by Joel Segal.

Other issue is, UDFA's, when the Gold Rush starts I'd bet Gaine will handle the UDFA's within a set budget, and Irish handles the big money signings.

 

Well stated. I agree this is a real test for Jeff. I've disagreed with some of what seem to be his core philosophies, but he's a good talent evaluator generally speaking, and so we'll see.

But on the other hand...can we honestly say that free agency/veteran acquisition has been a strength of Jeff Ireland's regime?

Anthony Fasano, Cameron Wake, Tony McDaniel, Randy Starks and Karlos Dansby seem like the veteran acquisitions they can really hang their hats on. They had some success with players that the coaches already knew and endorsed, guys like Anthony Fasano, Nate Jones, Akin Ayodele, Jason Ferguson, Joe Berger, Chad Pennington, Lousaka Polite. But if you look at it, most (if not all) of those guys on the balance of things were mediocre at best. Pennington gave us a solid season and then tore the sh-t out of his shoulder as everyone predicted he would. None but Fasano gave us more than one solid season, some only half a solid season.

I like Brandon Marshall but his acquisition (thus far) has been a failure, and already there's talk (albeit crazy talk) that the Dolphins should dump him as soon as the new league year begins, before they're on the hook for a lot more money with him. I like the man but I have to admit he's been up and down. He walked in as a top 5 or top 8 receiver at worst, and now he's mostly being noted for his shortcomings ("no deep speed", "headcase", etc). The domestic violence issues (which were always two-sided, from the start) that the Dolphins surely hoped were behind him now that he'd gotten married...have resurfaced. I'm not blaming him, I'm just saying surely the Dolphins hoped that was all behind him and obviously it's not.

And in the mean time you have tons of free agent acquisitions that were failures. If Justin Smiley isn't a total failure, he's mostly one. He collected like $12 million to play 24 games here, probably only half of them well. Jake Grove and Gibril Wilson were abject failures. Don't argue about whether they were failures because of talent or injury or whatever, a General Manager is accountable to ALL those aspects of evaluation in a player acquisition, be it attitude, injury history, talent, the whole thing. Reggie Torbor was a dud, as were Ernest Wilford and Eric Green. David Kircus and Josh McCown were duds. Joe Berger looked like a good acquisition but he was so bad in 2010 that they replaced him with a 1st round pick. Kevin Curtis came in and did nothing. Ikaika Alama-Francis was a dud. Tyler Thigpen was a dud. Re-acquiring Jason Taylor was a failure. Charlie Anderson was a dud. Remember when Boomer Grigsby was supposed to be our starting fullback and a special teams maven? Tim Dobbins was only "ok", not quite what I was hoping for, I suppose I should give him a chance to see what he can do in his second year in the system. I'm not sure I'd give Richie Incognito even the same grade as Dobbins. Benny Sapp was mediocre, at best. Al Harris hardy gave us anything before predictably getting hurt. Did they bring in Chris Crocker? Or did we already have him? He was a dud.

This has been one of the biggest criticisms I have had of this front office. They've shown serious deficiencies in the ability to sit down and look at other teams' free agents, evaluate them, figure out how much to pay them, and then pull the trigger. We've had guys get away from us under suspicious circumstances (Ryan Clark), we've had talented (and overpaid) guys come onto the club as injury risks and leave shortly thereafter as cripples, we've acquired guys that were character risks and continued to be character problems, we've booted guys that have gone on to be more successful elsewhere than their replacements here in Miami (Erik Walden, Matt Roth, Samson Satele). And then some of the guys we have been successful in acquiring, there are circumstances to be considered. Like Chad Pennington, yeah a successful addition (for one year) but Dan Henning had coached him before, and the reason we grabbed him was because we went to camp with Josh McCown, Chad Henne and John Beck, and that was so depressing the rest of the players were practically on suicide watch. When the Jets cut him late in the process and he fell in their laps, that was an awful easy decision to make. Anthony Fasano was a guy they'd already coached before, they knew far more about him than you typically know about veterans you're trying to acquire year-to-year. Karlos Dansby was one of the biggest free agent names out there and you can call him a successful addition but the man is making $8 million a year and last I checked in 2010 I don't know just how much of a difference maker he was, relative to his salary. The ones I'll give credit for up and down all day long would be Cam Wake and Randy Starks. But considering how many whacks of the bat they've taken with veteran acquisitions, having taken over a team that they went on to almost completely turn over in the proceeding two years...it's not that surprising they did manage to uncover two diamonds in the rough.

This year IMO is going to be where Jeff Ireland can make his mark in free agency and start to erase what I think is a pretty dreadful past with respect to veteran acquisition, as opposed to college evaluation. Like you said, there should be opportunities aplenty. We'll see how it goes.

 

Aside from Carson Palmer whose availability to us is questionable at best, the more you scour the availabilities the more you realize Vince Young is the only guy with a lick of real talent at the position. And that's sad. A testimony to how much they've screwed themselves at the position.

 

Suck for Luck!

 

Won't happen. We'll win in the 6-9 games range again. Then the patience brigade will be out in full force for the second off season in a row.

 

What a terrible position. We either have to settle for the crap that's out there/will be out there (Young) or trade an arm and a leg for someone with a little bit better promise (Palmer, Orton) or even trade even more for someone who is unproven(Kolb, Flynn). I so much rather be going into camp with Henne and Mallet. Oh well one step closer to someone in my sig.

 

Same here Irish runs a tight ship financially speaking meaning whomever he brings in will offer a good value.

 

I disagree. Over-complicating things. You sign a guy to a multi-year deal, he should be good. If he's not, you got a bad deal. Pretty simple.

Anyhow I'm not sure I agree with the premise that I see popularized out there that this free agent class is going to get low-balled.

That COULD be true at the very top, the names you'd typically see overpaid. However, I think the MIDDLE CLASS of free agents will benefit the most. There are 450 names, and 32 teams with a lot of money to spend, and very little time. To me, that's not a recipe for low-balling. That's a recipe for fast and loose money. Normally in free agency you have a small wave of guys that go right away and get the huge money and then as the days go by the prices that players and agents have in mind drop and drop and drop. That can't happen because you've taken out the time factor. If a team goes after a guy and doesn't get him they have to make a snap decision right away to offer the next guy. I see a lot of potential two-step easy negotiations. A team makes offers to three guys at the same position, different offers based on talent, the agents respond with their counter-offers, and the team picks the counter-offer they like best.

Like I said, I see a lot of potentially fast and loose money. Have to remember that this cash floor is looking to rise to about 95% of the cap. Teams will always be answerable to that.

 

More or less, with the Cap coming back I'd expect him to be a bit cautious as well, do like how he groups new signings with releasing Vets who underperformed or injury prone.

I know some do not want to hear it, but I'm looking at Vern Carey, if he had microfracture surgery and is slow in coming back it would not surprise me.

 

This would set the franchise back to 2007 levels, and we would be looking at another gutting and rebuild.

 

Well, we shall see, suspect they want to give Henne the first Qtr of the season to see what he has, if he fails then we see Young or Bulger or whomever.

Reason why I'm stuck on Young is Daboll had success with Colt McCoy who started the season as the 3rd stringer and had few reps, so if Young is signed then it would not be illogical to believe the same could be done with him.

 

If it happens, it happens.

The #1 pick in the Draft isn't always 1-15 or 2-14, though.

What I find interesting about this regime is how quickly they turned a 1-15 franchise into an 11-5 franchise, with much of the same exact talent that had been here during the 1-15 season. In fact, the more they got away from the 2007 roster, the worse they seem to do.

Let's say it does happen....3-13 with Andrew Luck on the horizon. If I'm Bill Cowher and I'm coming in, I'm thinking that this is a team that has some talent and they have a work ethic but they need to be shown ways to win that go beyond simply working hard. And they need a quarterback, they need stability. I don't know that I'd blow it up. I'd blow up what needs to be blown up.

 

Going 3-13 would mean we didn't have work ethic. It would mean we didn't work hard.

But I was mainly referring to the "suck for Luck" thing. Any time that losing is rationalized, you are destroying the locker room. Cam Cameron's "fail forward fast" was the absolute dumbest thing anyone could have said. You have 53 men that are putting their lives on the line, with essentially a small window of opportunity to make a career and living for themselves. To give them the impression that their sacrifice is being taken for granted, or that hard work won't be rewarded, or is for nothing, is poisoning the well.

Now in 2008, we were able to turn things around with a lot of the talent. But those were guys like Joey Porter that were able to be turned around. Those are guys that have already been paid. We have too many young players IMO that would have their development derailed if that were to happen now.

 

I also want to point out that the hiring of Dawn Aponte is going to be tremendous in this entire process.

 

If we're diving into debates about whether a team should suck for Luck or not, we're diving into useless banter. No team in the NFL has "Suck For Luck" posted on their bulletin boards, or as motivational posters on their wall. No team in the NFL carries "Suck For Luck" banners into the stadium on game day. And if the league ever caught even a hint of a whisper of a team trying to throw games for Draft position, that team could expect a rather embarrassing investigation and even potentially to have that Andrew Luck pick taken away from them depending on who in their organization knew of the strategy and how quickly Goodell might get them to confess.

Debating that is useless. That's why I said if it happens, it happens.

As for how devastating a 3-13 season would be if we ended up with the #1 pick in the Draft and the ability to draft Andrew Luck, that's certainly up for debate. I would argue that we'd be closer to a championship with a 2011 record of 3-13 than we would be with a 2011 record of 8-8.

 

Didn't she suffer some embarrassing fiasco within months of being hired? Something where they tried to cut a player (think it was Joey Porter) and even sent the transaction in to the league, only to have it rejected by the league because it would have resulted in bonus acceleration that put us over the salary cap? I seem to recall that.

Just because we hired somebody doesn't mean we hired a good somebody.

 

That is true, but I recall her doing good work in Cleveland. But the biggest thing to me is his history in labor relations, which is primarily why I think we brought her aboard. She probably has as good of an idea as anyone how the new rules will look, even before an agreement is reached.

 

One would hope. But if evaluating assistant coach hires is already palmisty at best, then what is evaluating caps and contract person hires? Pin the tail on the donkey?

 

I think assistant coach hires, in the case of someone like Daboll, is somewhat palmistry. But mainly because he is young, has little experience, and was in a situation last year that was less than desirable for an OC. We don't have much to work with. If we went out and hired someone like Cam Cameron, or Norv Turner, or anyone that has had history in the league, I think we could make a decent evaluation. When I look more at their job history, its usually not in terms of performance, but in terms of who hired them, were they promoted and how fast, etc. I look at it no differently than I look at someone's resume when I'm hiring for my company. Thats really why I didn't mind the Daboll hire.

But in terms of Dawn Aponte, what I like was the fact that she was hired as VP of labor finance for the NFL Management Council. This was after she spent 15 years with the Jets, which tells me that she was regarded highly there.

 

I will disagree with one comment about sucking for Luck there is a really Good qb by the name of Brandon Weeden that not many folks know about and this kid has the "it " facture in that this guy is very accurate and has a good arm and has a quick release so i would sugest that we get QB Brandon Weeden if we dont draft early enough . I think the safest bet against a disaster is to take Vince Young and because Thigpen isnt the answer and we only have 2 qbs onthe roster.I just dont see how fin fans can want Orton when all the other fan bases are praying that they dont get him Orton Makes Culpepper look like a all pro so I hope to hell we dont bring in Orton because I 've had it with the 50 retreads at qb .

 

Preaching to the choir on Weeden. If you want to take 23 minutes out of your life, feel free to check out the video I did of him over 6 months ago, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkLIET5uvA

Problem is he's already 28 years old I believe, will be 29 years old by the time he could suit up for an NFL team, and that would be as a rookie. Quarterbacks tend to peak sometime down the road like their 4th thru 8th years...for Weeden that'll be while he's 32 thru 36 years old.

Aside from that my two other biggest problem would be how much he wants it, his injury history. Should have come out this year. He went back to school even though he was a graduate, even though he has the age thing working against him, even though Dana Holgorsen left and Kendall Hunter was graduating. He makes the decision to come back, and immediately starts talking about how excited he is to be joining the golf team at OSU in addition to playing football. Considering his background as a baseball guy that didn't make it, that became a 3rd string QB on the Oklahoma State team kinda just because he could, and seemed content being the 3rd string QB and only ever got his break because Zac Robinson was hurt and the 2nd string guy led the team to an embarrassing first half on national television...considering all that, scouts aren't going to want to see you making baffling decisions to go back to school and starting to talk about how excited you are to join the golf team. Faux pas. The other thing that's probably even more major than the age and the desire thing...is injury history. There's bad pitching shoulder injuries in his history, can't pitch a baseball without having pain. Chances are, he has pain throwing a football too.

Damn shame though. Wonderful natural talent for a quarterback. The Roy Hobbs of football.

 

Can we say that he has had a big say in that? I think you have to point the finger for the majority of the blame toward the pro personnel department. They are the ones who inform the GM on what players fit and what kind of players there are available based off of their big board. Its based off of scheme, which they know very well at that point, so they have big say obviously.

 

If you want the big office then you need to take the heat that comes along with it. Every FA or draft failure is Jeff Ireland's problem. If he wants the credit, then he takes the heat

 

While I certainly agree, Jeff Ireland is the bottom line guy, and furthermore he's the guy that set up that pro personnel department. In fact, he just gave Brian Gaine a big promotion if I'm not mistaken.

 

When did he say he wanted credit for that? You go down as a team, sure, but there are specific jobs in the front office for a reason.

 

True, he did set it up, but its not all on him as implied by some. Majority goes to that department IMO.

 

Do you really believe that 3rd paragraph or is that you just trying to take a shot?..funny statement if you ask me.

 

I don't believe for one second that a first time GM inheriting the worst team in football, with Parcells at the top had much say in free agents the first year..There were no room for mistakes and I'll bet money that Parcells made the call on the bigger signings..Grove Smiley and wilford perhaps...Those were big contracts, Thats on Parcells imo.

 

Getting mired in semantics. The people are all still there. South beach brought up a good point about THIS particular free agency being difficult, the kind that separates the good front offices from bad, and a chance for Ireland to show that he's the man. That's all fine and good, but my point was to bring question to how we should expect THIS front office to do in this particular task, given what they've done in the past. Whether it's Ireland or whoever, it doesn't really matter.

 

100% agree.

 

Yeah I can already hear the excuses....."We didn't get a real offseason this year, so they need more time", "so they made a little mistake with Henne, let them try one more time to get a QB - doesn't everyone deserve a 2nd chance?. On and on and it goes......excuse after excuse, meanwhile other teams get stronger & better and we still wallow in mediocrity.

 

Lol, what about that guy who plays for the Destroyers? The UFL MVP. Ike Taylor's buddy.

PS. Totally agree a 6-9 win season is way more of a waste than a 0-5 win one(especially with a new rookie scale you may see the top 4 qbs go 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th overall).