Vernon Carey not at practice tonight, reportedly

If Henne plays poorly many people will say , why did Miami not properly address the QB position , yet again .

They will have a more than legitmate reason to ask that question and to receive an answer.

 

I certainly don't want to put words in ToddsPhins mouth at all. However, I don't think he believes Dan Henning was the entire problem. Nor do most Dolphins fans.

However, I will agree that most Dolphins fans, IF, the offense continues to sputter will agree with that thought process.

I do agree with your prediction that the offense will sputter and many of the problems that hindered this team during Dan Henning's time, will bite them in the butt this year also.

 

So we restructuring or cutting vernon to bring in orton?

 

ouch, man something is happening with him and i don´t know given his replacement....i like it

 

Or to be in a position where we can act immediately should a situation arise that we need salary cap room for an unexpected or expected player that frees up ...

I don't see this as a bad thing per se , time to be proactive and build up the elite playmaking talent on this team.

 

Post CBA contracts should be higher, no? More money for vets and less for rookies.

 

Question:? I know Carey wasn't a great LT when he filled in there, but he was adequate. If Long goes down who would be a capable LT on the Dolphins?
If their expecting Columbo to be a replacement for Carey that seems like a risky move they are staking their careers on. And what is the status of OHara?

 

My questions is Marc Colombo a better value at his contract than Vernon Carey at his contract? If that answer is no, then I don't understand the motivation for the move.

Anybody have Colombo's numbers? If he isn't dirt cheap, then why make this play?

If they wanted Vernon Carey to restructure, why not say hey we're attempting to land Kyle Orton or Ahmad Bradshaw or Santanio Holmes. I think him re-structuring at that point would have been more plausible and possible.

I believe Miami gets worse all the way around on this one. You cut Vernon Carey for a guy who's much worse. You cut a guy who has strong ties in Miami. You cut the longest tenured Miami (JT going back and forth doesn't count). You cut a veteran and captain. I just don't get it.

Making a move like this would be much easier to handle with no lockout or a shortened one. At some point, you've just got to understand the position you're in due to the circumstances and role with the best talent and level of comfortability that you can.

 

Wow..ominous, suspect he is leaving Miami.

FWIW/YMMV:

We could use a RG, Garner or Colombo can play RT, though the moves also do cast a bit of pale on Nate Garner's health, wonder if he to is in roster trouble?

 

This year you mean or for the years post 13?

I totally agree , no need to pay lip service to a problem , however I don't agree that there were no solutions available , perhaps not easy ones , that I concur with.

I also feel we should not make a lateral type of move to appease a rightfully angry and anxious fan base , if we build the surrounding positions and really have one major need to address next season ( QB obviously ) and have shown we have added playmakers , depth and talent AND we do address QB next year then I can live with it. However the patchwork fix hasn't and isn't and won't work , imo.

 

This I agree with, and see it as how we win in 2011, not with outstanding Qb play, but with every unit chipping in at need, O/D/ST, my bone of contention this offseason is it did not have to be that way, we could have upgraded the Qb position and simply chose to go with Henne.

I said last season, if Sparano hitches his job to Chad Henne, then he probably deserves to be fired.

And I love the job Tony Sparano has done in Miami, however if he is that myopic and has that much misplaced loyalty then NFL Darwinism is a force, like Gravity or Flow, and no reasoned argument about the value of draft picks over winning can change it.

 

I thought Nate Garner wasn't practicing because he isn't allowed to until August 4th. Since he was an exclusive rights or RFA, whichever one, he couldn't practice until that time. Is he still hurt?

 

Personally, if they are looking to hold Carey's feet to the fire, or to actually cut him, to me the most likely replacement for him on the outside could be Nate Garner. It could be that Garner takes Carey's place, and that Columbo is nothing more than a backup bridge to get to next year or until someone better comes along.

If as expected, we see an increase in the amount of zone blocking in the run game, it would play to his strengths. Garner doesn't anchor very well, or at least he didn't the last time we saw him. He is however, better when he is on the move. He gets to the second level quickly and can track down targets well enough. But as noted he isn't what I'd call a road grader in the run game. I question his ability to consistently handle a bull rush or any defender that is physical, but I think he's athletic enough to handle the job. His technique will have to improve, but I think he can do it. In an ideal world Garner would have gotten stronger in his time away, but I don't know if that has happened. If he has, that would certainly be beneficial, but I don't think its going to happen.

Penciling in Columbo as the replacement for Carey may not be the way to go. I for one would like to at least see Garner at that spot.

 

Could be, or they are using this time between Garner having to be on the practice field to see what guys like Colombo or Feinga have to offer, Garner comes back and the Churn the Roster Machine kicks on.

 

If Henne doesn't play poorly, people will say, "why the heck did Miami not get rid of Henning sooner or attempt to properly build the offense around Chad a few years ago?"

 

So much for John Jerry being able to play RT as well?

 

I hope he does play well , truly.

If he does , then that highlights the concerns regarding this coaching staff imo , to be honest Miami has not put him in the best position to succeed , at least imo.

 

Looking to Carey to take a pay cut is a good move. The guy was born, raised, and has played his entire high school, college, and professional career here. He was a Dolphins fan growing up, and is raising his kids here. You would think of anyone would take a home town discount, it's Carey.

I don't really relish the idea of Carey calling their bluff, though. Nate Garner, and even circa 2009 Marc Colombo are likely adequate starting right tackles, but Carey has been dominant.

 

I think it would be pretty crappy if I did a favor for my boss in taking less money in the present, and push it off in the future. Then when the future becomes the present, the boss asks me to take a pay cut.

 

Home town discount? No such thing... This is his profession and livelihood. In the NFL the motto is get what you can while you can. I hope he stays but I wouldn't be upset with him if he did right by himself.

 

Correct, I don't believe he was the entire problem. IMO it was a mass collective effort, and the only excusable people were our Dline, Wake, Dansby, and Mike Nolan..... and that's not enough to carry a season. Everyone else goes into the pot.

I don't expect any team to be successful when they're built around the ground game but can not run, have running backs who have completely lost any explosiveness, and an Oline that is severely injury plagued, constantly shuffled around, and can't block the last 6 games.



IMO it seems like an excessively large portion of our fan base believes a team is supposed to succeed when it fails in too many key aspects of the game.

1. Turnovers. Defense couldn't create any. WRs & TEs allowed too many by falling down or having passes bounce off them into defenders hands.

2. Big play TDs. Defense allowed too many. Even with Henne missing a couple deep balls, we still lacked the ability to create them (and we also dropped a few of them, too).

3. Field position. Field position helps win games; unfortunately ours was piss poor all year. very few short field opportunities, and when we had them, we typically settled for FGs.

4. Ground game. Running teams MUST BE ABLE TO RUN THE BALL. 3.7 YPC and little to no success on 1st down is unacceptable. 8 rushing TDs is unacceptable, especially considering how many times we ditched the pass (after a long Henne drive) in order to run or sub in the WC. 5 20+ yard runs is unacceptable. Ranking near bottom of the NFL in 10+ yard runs is unacceptable. Our ground game (since we're a running team) is supposed to carry our young QB, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

5. It's statistically proven that offense's have a likelihood of a failure if they do NOT gain 4+ yards on 1st down. Our ground game routinely left us in 2nd & 8-11. ROUTINELY. There's also a likelihood of failure if an offense can't get into 3rd & 4 or less. When we ran on 2nd down, our ground game ROUTINELY left us in 3 & 5+ (and too frequently in 3rd & 8+). First Pats game was a prime example of both.

6. Special Teams. Enough said.

7. Coaching. It's obvious we were out-coached on more than a few occasions. It's obvious that Henning's playcalling and offensive design were predictable. We know this b/c players reminded us on a weekly basis. If anyone argues that a constant 5 step drop & its related routes aren't predictable, then maybe you should talk to a few NFL coordinators and see what they think. Special teams coach fired. OC fired in a very polite way.

8. Experience & cohesiveness. This is the NFL. Some of these guys know what they're doing and have been doing it for a while. A group of 10-12 practice squad, 2nd string, 3rd string, and out of the league players do NOT help you gel as an offense, build cohesiveness, proper timing, nor do they help you beat opponents with more experience or greater talent. The argument about Henne having so much talent around him last year is RIDICULOUS. Talent means NOTHING if it's injured, on the sidelines, out of shape, or playing out of position. (Added: if a sprained knee can affect Carson Palmer's play, it can affect Henne's too).

9. Strength of Schedule. The better the teams you play, the tougher the time you have of winning. The 3rd toughest SOS doesn't do any favors. If we saw first hand how the easiest defensive schedule could allow us to do well and overachieve in 2008, why does the opposite not hold true for 2009 & 10?


I seem to recall coaches saying in pre-game speeches that keys to winning are: winning field position (we finished near bottom of NFL), winning the turnover battle (we did not), preventing the big play (we did not), good special teams play (we did not), and effectively running the ball (we did not).

When we succeeded in the above areas AS A TEAM (mostly during the first half of the season before injuries struck & before Henning's predictability caught up with him), Henne was an effective game manager (which is all I want out of a 2nd year starter who's still developing). Chad's not a player capable of carry a team (at least not on a weekly basis), but that could change with experience. What I see in Henne is---- a guy who will play well, minimize mistakes, and help us win games when we're playing well, will win us a few games on his own, but will start falling apart if asked to do too much at this point in his career. I feel the same way about Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, and Sanchez.


Anyone who thinks 1 though 9 above is less significant than QB play (or thinks that a QB can overcome these deficiencies) needs........ needs....... I don't know what they need but they need something.

 

agree. there better be a damn good reason or else it's a poor move.

 

I see you're trying to make some things that are eminently arguable into things that you say are unarguable.

For instance, why will Henne be an improved QB? He wasn't much, it at all better in his third year as he was his second year. His last 5 games were worse than his first 5 games.

I think there's a strong possibility that after everything he has been through, he's actually a worse quarterback. He went through some real outlook changing experiences last year and this off season as the team tried pretty hard (and publicly) to replace him only to have it fall through. There's this natural assumption out there, I don't even think people realize that it's an assumption, that these experiences will only make him better, rather than worse. But, that's an assumption. There's no reason to make that assumption. He was worse after the benching and the Chicago experience than before it.

People think oh well a Chad Henne that isn't wound up so tight, a Chad Henne that "cuts loose" will be a better quarterback. How do we know that? How do we know that, given his talent level and limitations, his conservative tendencies haven't HELPED him be as mediocre as he is, as opposed to being just plain awful? We're talking about a guy that doesn't see the field well or quickly. If he's conservative, that would tend to mask that weakness. If he doesn't care, if he's "cutting loose"...but he's still not seeing the field any better, how do we assume that's a good thing? He was 106 of 185 (57%) for 1161 yards (6.3 YPA), 6 TDs and 8 INTs after the Chicago experience, which he himself has pointed to as being an outlook-changing experience. And you know what? Only 1.5 of those 6 defenses was really any good. He only played a half against the Patriots, and then the game against the Jets. The rest of the defenses were the Raiders, Browns, Lions and Bills...defenses that other quarterbacks and other passing offenses regularly cut up to pieces. And yet, he was worse against them than he was against good defenses just a few months back.

So why do we know that Henne is an improved player? In the mean time one thing is certain, and that is more teams will be watching those games against the Patriots and Ravens, seeing how to put pressure on Henne without the blitz, and they'll start copying it.

Elsewhere on the team, I don't know that we've improved the OL. We will certainly have to see what this Vernon Carey deal is. Call me old fashioned but I always find rookies to be woefully overrated by the fanbase, and that goes for Mike Pouncey. How much difference-making do you really think he'll do compared with Joe Berger a year ago? Long term, great. But short term?

You say the RB unit has been upgrade. I think the RB unit has been downgraded solidly, especially in the short term. Reggie Bush is a nice pass catching weapon. But that's all he is. He's not a good tailback, and he's often treated by defenses like a wide receiver that is lining up in the backfield. Some defenses will not adjust correctly for him, and that will be a boon for the offense. But most will adjust correctly, and that will keep him from being a difference-maker. When he carries the ball I don't expect more than 4.0 yards per carry from him, in fact I'd be happy if he got even that much because I think he could get much worse, and 4.0 yards per carry is about what Ricky & Ronnie combined for consistently in 2010. Not an upgrade there. As for Daniel Thomas, he's a rookie 3rd rounder. That really should say it all, but I understand typical fan optimism tends to lose that kind of objectivity. He's raw. He's only spent the last two years at tailback after being a JUCO QB. It disturbed me in college that he would have the look of a power back, but not really show much power. He often got stoned by mediocre linebackers, and defensive backs often tackled him surely and with very few yard after contact. His pad level has been a problem, and though I do believe the Dolphins will try and work on that, Troy Stradford pointed out to me just the other day that pad level is one of those things that's just not going to change in a back. Does that mean he'll always suck? No. I think he could end up an Arian Foster type, in the right system like Foster has. Does Miami run that system? And if they did, would the OLs gel within that system right away? And even if all that was going right, was Arian Foster even Arian Foster in his rookie year? Answers should be "no", across the board.

I believe the WRs unit is in for a solid upgrade. Brandon Marshall's head is in a better place, he's more comfortable in the team setting, he's lost some weight, I think those will factor in. Brian Hartline is in for the typical 2nd to 3rd year jump that you see in young WRs, which is a pretty big jump IMO. I always liked Clyde Gates, so he might even add a little something to the mix.

On the other hand, not sure what to expect out of the TEs. Anthony Fasano has never been better than he was in 2010. But, he was very good in 2008 and then took a solid step backward in 2009. That wasn't just a statistical step backward, if anyone remembers watching him as I do he actually just played like crap during a lot of games, dropping balls, etc. Could that happen again? Yes, it could. What does ROOKIE 6th rounder Charles Clay really add to the mix? Remember, people tend to overrate rookies. As Anthony Fasano goes, so goes this unit IMO. If he's having a down year, this unit will be a downgrade from 2010.

Defensive line should be a solid upgrade. Paul Soliai is fit, trim, motivated. That's HUGE news, as he could have done a lot of backsliding during the lockout, with a $12.5 million guaranteed contract in his back pocket. Randy Starks IMO got off to a slow start in 2010 because he trained all of camp and preseason at NT and then suddenly it's Week 2 and they're asking him to play RE again full time. That disrupts you. As the season wore on he started to play like himself. I expect him to play like that for all of 2011, without a slow start. Tony McDaniel on the other hand I expect a backslide from. He was so fiercely focused on free agency, and so he had your typical contract year performance. Now that he's got a two year deal to remain with the team, I think he'll take a step back. Hard to really know what Jared Odrick will bring to the table. I hope, but he's not got the injury prone tag next to his name. I expect Phil Merling to be cut.

I see a solid downgrade in the linebackers unit. They downgraded their football IQ when they cut Channing Crowder for Kevin Burnett. I would have been OK with this if it were Nick Barnett, a very smart player that has played at elite levels in the past. Burnett has not done that. Stephen Cooper was the brains of the San Diego linebacker outfit, that's just a fact. The games I watched of Burnett's, he often had to be told by Cooper where to line up and then was often scolded by him after the play if he didn't execute his assignment properly. It's no wonder Ron Rivera called Cooper the smartest player he's ever coached. He didn't say that about Burnett. Kevin is a lengthy, explosive and athletic player that can make plays in the passing game, but is inconsistent in the briar patch and doesn't necessarily have the above-norm football IQ to recognize plays and call them out for the rest of the defense, getting everyone lined up, etc. The problem is, the Dolphins already have one of those in Karlos Dansby. I felt like Dansby and Crowder were a good mix of brains and braun. I advocated doing better than Crowder at that position, for sure...but never at the cost of football IQ. But, that's what the Dolphins did...and I don't think the linebackers unit will be better off for it.

The other aspect of the linebackers unit is the outside guys, the pass rushers. This is a problem for me. Cam Wake had a breakout career year at that spot. You OFTEN see guys that have that kind of year take a step backward the next year, not because they're fat and happy, but because teams put a target on their chest. He rushes over right tackle too, so it's a little easier to send extra help his direction. Meanwhile, I don't think Koa Misi will be up to the task of making teams pay for sending help at Cam Wake. It will still boil down to whether Koa Misi can beat NFL left tackles in isolation. He can do that some, with his hustle and athletic ability, but not with consistency IMO. The pressure that Cam Wake put on QBs in 2010 was absolutely a key to the defense's effectiveness. If that gets dialed down, without Koa Misi dialing up his pressure in answer, that could hurt the defense. My answer to this dilemma would have been to grab an Antwan Barnes whom you KNOW could beat left tackles in isolation with his speed rush and athleticism. Using him situationally would have covered for his stamina deficiencies as well as his lack of versatility. Their answer was Jason Taylor. Their answer is a poor one, IMO.

And what about the secondary? The corners will be better. I expect Sean Smith to catch some of those balls he dropped. Vontae Davis could also take another step forward. I have a VERY good feeling about Nolan Carroll.

But, IMO, there's been a problem festering at the safety position and I'm not sure they've really addressed it well enough to prevent a possible implosion. Yeremiah Bell is old, and has a history of injuries. He's also fading, you can see it in his game. Chris Clemons is young, took a big step forward last year, but now I wonder if he'll take a step back. I wonder if the coaches aren't convinced that he got away with some things in 2010, and that's why they've been in contact with FS Dashon Goldson during the off season. Meanwhile, what to make of Reshad Jones? According to team sources, he made some plays when he was freelancing, but when the coaches reined him in and had him play within the defense, he played tight and didn't play very well. He's only a 5th or 6th round pick, remember.

Overall from a TEAM standpoint, I think their level of buy-in will be the lowest it's been since Parcells took over in 2008. Two losing records with December fades takes its toll, and you could SEE that on the field in Week 17. Having a quarterback they don't really believe in takes a toll. Having the front office show that they also don't have much faith in him, by carrying on serious discussions with Kyle Orton, takes a toll. Bill Parcells has officially left the team, I think that could take some toll. Having the owner declare publicly through the Harbaugh fiasco that he doesn't have faith in Tony Sparano takes a toll. Changing offensive schemes and not having much time to install it, takes a toll. All these intangible things take their toll.

And so overall, I see a team that is worse in 2011 than it was in 2010. I don't know why that should be such a shock. Every year there are a dozen or more teams that are worse than the year before. And every single one of those teams had a fanbase that was, prior to the season, SURE that they were at the very least the same as the year before, and probably better.

 

Exactly. I think people will accept that he was a problem, but that he wasn't the only problem, and that in reality every offensive coordinator brings good things and bad things to the table, and maybe people start to realize that all this assuming everyone's done that ANYONE would be better than Henning was just a bad assumption.

 

It's not the coach, it's the QB.

When you have a top QB, it makes it alot easier to coach. Chad Pennington seemingly had no problem excelling within Dan Henning's system despite being pulled for the Wildcat, etc. He was 2nd in MVP voting. Chad Henne has been horrible under similar circumstances.

 

Pennington didn't do as well as he could have due to Henning. Pennington's stats in the clutch of the game (say behind 1-8 points, arguably the toughest situation to pass against) were phenomenal. Just like with Henne, Henning's play calling with the team ahead shot Pennington's stats in the foot. Other teams capitalize when they're ahead.

If Henne had say a 87-88 QB rating with a decent play caller the calls for his head would be less and his confidence would likely go up.

 

Henne is not as good as a healthy Pennington, but then again neither is Orton or any other QB we could have acquired this off-season. And the truth is that Pennington had more complementary weapons than Henne did, so even that comparison of situations is inaccurate. There are maybe 6 QBs in the league who could have done well in last year's system. I'm not even sure about that number though. When I saw Peyton go through his slump I felt it was due to injuries that limited their offense to almost a carbon copy of what Henne had all year. If Peyton struggled with that, I don't know how anybody could be surprised that a lesser QB like Henne also struggled.

 

I'm not going to copy the whole thing, Chris, but it was really really good. I've started to type something similar with those same feelings about those positions. Yet, I couldn't put it into the context you did. Very fine job.

 

i dont know what the loss of crowder is doing to the football IQ of the defense to be honest, when he is such a clever dude, he would have been able to make more impact plays because he was anticipating better, dansby will take over the calls i assume and we will be fine, a lot of teams that sucked a year before, where also able to be good the very next year, just see us as example in 2008, regardless of chad henne, we still have this defense and i will not believe that we will be worse than last year until i actually see it, which will not happen

 

Penny was playing Ted Ginn, a rookie Davone Bess and not much else. Not sure how you could say he had more weapons

 

Anticipating what better?

 

He was playing with balanced threats though. The 2008-2009 RBs were much better than 2010, David Martin stretched the field at TE, Ginn was the deep threat, Camarillo the intermediate, and Bess the short. In 2010 you had better players at WR but they were used ineffectively, the RBs sucked, and the TEs lacked any speed.

 

The Vikings just cut Bryant McKinney.

 

Anybody been following him over the years, how's he playing?

 

You're correct on one point, it's usually the players that make a difference...Your statement that the circumstances were similar is incorrect. The running game was much more reliable for Penny. The WC created a passing offense that was not available to Henne because the WC was not successful after that season... Penny was a better, more experienced QB than Henne was in his 2nd and 3rd year, no doubt, but is that a fair comparison at this point in Henne's career ?? I don't think so...there's so much more to success or failure than one player...

 

Kinda weird actually, in 09 he made the pro bowl, then was ejected from the team for missing meetings due to heavy drinking, his career has sort of spun down since that happened.

 

How did the WC create a passing offense?

 

We could not get anything for Carey. Did you watch the last few games he played? He was worse then crowder and that says alot.