The Henne argument...why does it exist?

Those that blindly trash him do it because he is not Marino and those who support him blindly hold onto the hope that he is the next Marino.

 

You'd be wise to start using detractors rather than haters. The internet magnifies all butthurt.

 

amen

 

Two season of being 7-6 and finishing 0-3 to miss the playoffs and have a losing record. Along with throwing more interceptions than TD passes and being the 26th ranked QB will result in some fans "objectively" thinking he sucks.

 

actually I support him b/c I don't feel he's done enough to warrant being considered a bust etc. Marino doesn't even enter my thought process.... and I refuse to count a guy out whom I know has talent and has been on the wrong end of the deal more times than not. I also don't count him out b/c I feel it's irrational to blame a young QB for not carrying a struggling team on his shoulders and playing like a veteran. There are far more reasons that indicate he deserves the benefit of the doubt (and hence another year) verses reasons indicating he's a has been.

 

If we dismissed every player who didn't play extremely well or wasn't capable of carrying his team during his first 2 years starting, then Canton would be a much smaller place.

 

Here we go.. Henne haters. You're trying to make a post about objectivity here but I don't see you calling out the people who go to great lengths to excuse Chad Henne of blame for his poor performance. A real hot topic around here is when people try to for instance marginalize the talent of a guy like Matt Ryan to make Chad Henne look better. So for every person we have criticizing every little move Henne makes we have another claiming Drew Brees couldn't even do that well on this team. This is just the nature of being a sports fan. We're not accuscore here, we have opinions on what we watch.

 

Whether there slips or not, JMO, I have noticed most folks who while analyzing are letting past failures at the position affect their objectivity and the patience required to properly assess the position ESPECIALLY considering certain variables.

They could very well be right about this particular player, however, imo, he deserves a part of this year to show a certain plane of progression that should come with a late 2nd round pick, and what he's accomplished in the process since 1 and 15..

You know something VT, there were 3 plays in that game friday night that we haven't see Henne do, as well as he did, in 1 quarter of action..

1}, the dodge of the blitz from an unimpeded defender, while keeping his eyes downfield, and throwing an accurate laser..

2} The step up in the pocket and being athletic enough and aware of enough, to know where the first down marker was {saw him look to the sideline}, get it with his feet,and slide..

3} A deep pass that was not only accurate and in stride, but had the right trajectory.

There also was the hot read with perfect accuracy to Thomas which enabled him to turn and take it upfield on a beautiful play from both ends. Ive seen him do that before though..

Looking closer at the game..Ryan started out 0 and 4 with 2 passes that were quite interceptable...one was to VD on the sideline, and the other was the breakup that Smith and Burnett had together when they collided, Burnett turned as the ball got close and interfered with Smith who had a pulse on the football..He was pissed..

The rest of Ryans passes came against backups, Tyron Clver and Nolan Carroll especially.

Don't wanna get off topic here, yet still trying to stick with the premise, check this out, our first team defense made their first team offense go 3 and out, however, when the very quick fasano fu%$ up happened, the defense was not set, the dline was caught in a shift, and atlanta gashed them with the run on the first play..Now you can say that they beat us strait up but I would disagree, that was simply 1st game preseason football at its finest, something that will not happen in the regular season..It was a mistake on our part interms of transition onto the field, but that's about as far as I'am going to look into it.

 

Very good point. I will not hide I have not been an avid supporter of Chad Henne, from the beginning. No, I am not pissed he is not Marino. This year I guess we have no choice, we have to back him because we have no one else. Last year there was the hope of Penny but that faded fast and quick.

Being objective and I as a lot of others simply bashed the kid. In truth I believe if he could just stay on an even keel, he could be a good QB. Not great but good. Thats what drives me nuts. Plays 3 or 4 or even 5 or 6 good series and then bam, the ball starts going into strange places. looking back at his entire time here I have to say the most frustrating thing is his consistency. Fridays pass to Hartline was one of beauty but how many has he thrown like that. His first interception should have been caught by Fasano, cannot deny that but you also cannot deny the ball was thrown behind Fasano. The great catch made by Bess to the sideline was another one. Bess caught it but again, it was thrown too much in front of Bess.

In another post someone said Henne had no time on any play Friday, complete utter BS. I watched the game again and yes Columbo let a guy get around him but every other single play, Chad Henne had plenty of time PLENTY of time. On his second interception there was no one around him, nobody and he still threw it right into the defenders hands. I am not buying the team company line there was a missed communications on that play, bull. Our reciever was already in a pattern and covered and the ball was thrown to another defender that was between Henne and the reciever. Looking at the play, there was no way on earth our receiver had a chance for that ball and it was quite clear in was in full stride when the ball was thrown. SImply put, Henne threw it to a poor location. Thats the frustrating part.

On the other hand, I still would lke to see how its going to look with both Marshal and Bush in there along with other targets, all at the same time. So, IMO, my problem with Henne is two fold.

1 consistency from game to game, heck, from quarter to quarter
2 Just as important as number 1, his accuracy. With Henne that goes hand in hand with his consistency because once he makes mistakes it seems its hard for him to recover. Now Friday was a bit different. I am glad they kept him in there and I am glad he connected with Hartline. It was a nice pass to a wide open reciever and Hartline did not have to reach for the ball, dive for it or go back 5 yards for it. There is the frustrating part, yeah he threw ONE like that but what I doubt is Henne can be consistent and throw 4 5 or even 6 passes with such accuracy in a game. Thats been killing us. Defenses give us the deep patterns, they really do because from watching Henne, they know he completes very few passes that far downfield. Thats my objective view of Chad Henne.Can he get it done ? Yes. Can he be consistent in getting the job done ? Up until this point in time, no, not at all.

 

I can tell you being called a homer, a rah rah yada yad a guy leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yes I am a henne supporter. Yes I believe he can be a good qb. Do i think he will? I dont know. Thats the point. Do i think I am completely objective? probably not. But I do try to be as objective as I can.

I do realize Henne has concerns. He has physical skills out the wazzoo, but can he mentally play this game? Did the last year ruin his confidence and he is unable to shake it enuff to allow him to just play and not overthink? I dont know.

I see all these comments well he is a 4 year vet, no he is a 3 yr vet entering his 4th year. He hasnt started for 3 years either, he hasnt even started the equivalent of 2 full seasons. Now "haters" will say that he has had enough time to show he is a qb or not and give a thousand reasons why. Are they right? I dont know. Could be. May not be.

I think alot of it has to do with tone of posts, people too often come accross as belittling or defiant. Even if that want the intent. we talk in absolutes as if there is no other option. To the individual there may not be, but we need to recognize that others may feel differently and respect should be given.

I think the key word is frustration, we see how things played out on the field and in the Front Office and then pick a side. The qb is a polarizing position and unless we know its filled, then its not filled. Some take it as Henne cant, some see potential and hold out hope. It is what it is, it is normal to disagree, but we need to take the emotion out of having our opinion disagreed with

 

I'm not sure if that's possible..... and here's why.

I didn't spend hours upon hours rewatching every game multiple times or watching every snap the other young QBs took to be "subjective". If I want to be a subjective Henne "lover", I'll do so w/o the invested time. I spent the extra time so that I could be as objective as possible w/o jumping to conclusions. But no, you get called an "excuse maker" etc #%$@#&% etc when you do that.


And the absolutely amusing & ironic part is------ I'm the one doing tons of research on the matter so that I may form an objective opinion, but some unprepared yahoo will come along and call me the irrational or bias one.


Not to sound like an a-hole, but further insult to injury-----> Some of these people have little to no history of making predictions or player assessments, yet they call me crazy despite a history of making more bold predictions that proved to be correct rather than wrong.

 

You have to understand. Many on the board wanted no part of Sparano, Daboll or Henne to start with. Every mistake no matter how insignificant will be magnified as proof of their incompetence. It’s called training camp for a reason. Until proven otherwise; Sparano is too conservative for today’s NFL, Daboll is a worse than Henning and Henne sucks. Obviously, they’re all valid points.

I think we got a nice little glimpse into what they’re trying to do on Friday night, but can they pull off such a drastic change in philosophy with the shortened preseason and the players they have? Those are the questions I have.

 

I believe in the next 6 to 8 weeks we will know if we really need to hate him or not. He is on a short leash its make it or break it right now.

 

Thats says it all right there.He will make or break his miami dolphin career in that span.The henne supporters will try to rub it in your face if he plays well and the henne haters will do likewise if he sucks.

 

There will be no objectivity with Henne on this board or any other fan board. Fans have staked their claims and are now emotionally invested in his level of play.

 

I tend to agree. But I also think the OP is a great one. I find myself trying to straddle that exact line

I'm looking at pure results (and they are bad by most any measure) vs. Seeing a guy that has apparent talent,

I try to balance the two.

I read posts before seeing the falcon game. My impression was that the first INT was clearly henne's fault. When I saw the play...no way is it henne's fault

The essential problem with henne, imo, is that he simply does not make enough positive plays to jusitfy his bad plays.

I think there is a chance. Part of me thinks that 6 years from now we will be mocking the doubters and not giving a talented guy a fair shake

But too many times, the bad plays add up and you think the guy is over his head and we need to move on

Henne will play a lot of games while his regime is not hiding the fact that they want to replace him

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

Well said. I fancy myself as someone who has always tried to remain in the middle ground when discussing QBs. It's ok and appropriate for us to support every Miami Dolphin especially our starting QB, but some objectivity must be maintained. As I said in my thread that was deemed "out of bounds" for some reason, it's his 4th year and it's time for the excuses to stop. Let's hope Henne plays well enough so no excuses are needed.

 

Let's get real here, he won't be good or poor enough to settle anything.

 

You're probably right, but there are other QBs who have had the light come on in their third year. It's not out of the realm of possibility. But if he doesn't play well enough then the writing will be on the wall and it will be time to move on whether fans like it or not. This regime or the next won't be foolish enough to stake their careers on a player who can't get it done after 4 years.

 

It's called Confirmation Bias

 

There are those who willfully ignore his shortcomings to praise him on faith and faith alone, and they hate when anybody else says anything else. At all.

Then there are those who believe he is awful, have made up their minds and nothing will change that. Ever.

And then there are those like me, who saw some brilliance in him in the beginning along with some correctable flaws, but saw him misused and abused by Sparano and his henchman Henning, and now believe that he could overcome that, but think it's unlikely given the nature of the human psyche, especially in a pro athlete for whom psyche permeates everything he does.

But EVERYONE seems to only want to read and side with either the first or the second groups, and totally ignore the ones like me, who are waiting to see what happens.

****ing clear enough?

 

Fourth. FOURTH YEAR.

He's had FOUR offseasons to learn, THREE full seasons to learn, almost TWO FULL SEASONS AS A STARTER, and THOSE ARE THE FACTS—you can't change that by stating otherwise.

 

Henne has two season which constitute a body of work. Sadly, it's doesn't reflect positively on him.

And again to address the body of work aspects, plays where there are turnovers aren't given the same value or importance as a completed pass because of their effect on the game. We all know winning the turnover battle is a key aspect of football. So I think it's completely valid for people to place more importance on those plays then others. I think it's completely logical and rational.

I believe I have been labeled a 'hater' because I have decided to push back on people who try to blame everyone in the organization but Henne for his poor play. I am not trying to absolve all these people of their share of their responsibility. I think they are to blame; I just feel like some want to dump all the blame on others and act as if Henne is the victim, this probably isn't the case so I am probably wrong on this matter, BUT the reason I feel that way, or at least an example of it, is how Henne was given a free pass on the 2nd INT of the Falcons game by some. Henne made a bad decision and people are trying to white wash it.

But to be more direct and to the point of your post, I feel like Henne is a devisive figure because the organization led the fans to believe that they were going to bring in a QB to push Henne and be a viable replacement ( aka one who could still win games and lead us to the playoffs) in case Henne did not improve this season. And they kind of feel lied to and it deminished their hope for the upcoming season.

I also agree that people are emotionally invested in the Henne battle, people have picked sides and dug in.

 

Simply put, because Chad Henne isn't very good. He's an average QB at best, and no one will accept that fact. People either find reasons to make him out to be worse than he is, or that find excuses for why he's better than he is.

 

The fact that Tony Sparano didn't discount the possibility of Brett Favre being looked at says it all. That says everything you need to know. I for one did not subscribe to the theory that a one game benching killed Chad Henne's mojo forever more but this is bad. To know your boss thinks a broken down 42 year old man might be a better option than you. Ironically Henne will have to be pretty good probably to save Sparano's job.

 

After that 2009 Jets MNF game I might have bought a Chad Henne jersey if somebody stuck it in front of me right then. It's been disappointing to see these struggles.

 

I'll say it again - I don't think Henne will ever completely eliminate the stupid mistakes.

My hope is that he can learn to be aggressive enough, and skilled enough, to outweigh those negatives with positive plays.

At this point, I've given up on him being a caretaker, Orton-type QB and would rather see him turn into a gunslinger. I don't think he can limit the mistakes enough to play conservative.

 

To piggy-back on my own post - are there any Michigan fans here that can say what Henne was like in college? Was he a check-down machine or more of a gunslinger?

I know he and Braylon had a lot of big plays - but was he aggressive beyond those?

 

I honestly believe that it's not his fault.

A rookie QB brings whatever he brings to the table; different guys each bring a different, unique confluence of assets. As he learns and the game slows down for him, he acquires other assets.

Henne actually LOST the good things he brought with him from day one; that doesn't just happen, it's beaten out of him by bad coaching. It really is that simple.

Now the question is...well, the TWO questions are: will Sparano keep his big meat head out of Henne's further development so that he can start regaining himself and get back on his learning curve—and can Henne even do that?

 

I supported Henne in the begining,got down on him last year when thing went badly but hope he can pick up his game this season,this is it for his chance to QB for the Dolphins.

 

Let's not forget the weight that Henne had tied to him for the last couple of years..........Dan Henning! Let's not forget that his playcalling had a lot to do with Henne's lack of success along with last year's O-line problems. Let's see how he does this year under Dabol.............Let's

 

Easy killer. I know it's his fourth year, and I've stated as much in other threads. I was counting years as starter, but you're right. The years he didn't start or play count.

 

What up vt? Solid post and I say that because I understand it's coming from a good place and looking for the response of more "objectivity".

I think there should just be some understanding of the nature of these things. And by these things I mean message boards.

I think we all need to agree that, whether you think he's the guy or not the guy, there is some favoritism being shown that. So, no matter the "side" you're on, because we're all fans, and because you're going to develop some sort of "drawn line in the sand" on a player, fans are going to be very vindictive and opinionated on the player. Whether you stand by him or want to replace him, it's aided by the feelings you've come about because you're a fan of the team.

That's why I'll generally put more stock into a knowledgeable scout, analyst, etc. that doesn't have ties to the organization. We all want the team to do well, so we're going to draw our own conclusion on the player based off of that first and foremost.

I think the differing of opinions exist because it's the nature of the position. I'm not comparing him to Anthony Fasano, but he's a guy that's a good football player, not great, not terrible. Yet, you're not going to see 55 threads talking about Fasano or people coming in and breaking down film/statistics to show what kind of player he is. That's because he's a TE. The QB position is the premier position in not just football, but all sports IMO. It will always be central by the media and the fans. Thus, it doesn't really allow people to be "on the fence" or indifferent about that player. Nor does it allow fans to be comfortable with average.

The media has done such a serious hype job of equating the QB and winning that every single fan (the lay fan) generalize QB's and their quality level of play to the amount of wins the team has. So, in our instance...we don't win, we don't have a QB. Is it fair? I don't think so. However, we need to remember fans own the football teams too. So, if they're not winning, they're listening to the analysts and they feel the same frustration.

Lastly, I think there has been some great debate on the topic. Too much debate, but solid discussion nonetheless. Here's where it gets testy. For some reason, and I can get into a habit myself, we feel the need to prove another person wrong. It's like we have to one up them, "own them", show them up. That's where it gets wrong. I think if we had more discussion where sarcasm, sniper comments and hidden attacks were left out, you'd see the same quality arguments there but without the emotion spewing out of it.

I mean you see it clearly here. There are posters that continually "thank" "fist pump" the same few posters comments. They have the same opinions they do. When I get testy, I call them the "circle jerkers". Because that's what it's really like. It lends itself to more one-sided views of things and it separates objective thinking. I mean it goes to the point because of past debate/emotional discussion that the person is then commenting more on the poster than the actual post. That's where you get the vitriol and lack of substance. Again, I've been guilty of doing it myself. However, without the grudge holding.

I disagree in that I think we've seen about as close to objective thinking, for fans of a team, you're going to see. I also think there is a negative connotation associated to fans that post their opinions based on watching the game. Those comments/opinions shouldn't be disregarded or taken with any less respect than someone considered a "guru" or someone that holds a positive opinion that many agree with.

I think there are a whole lot of quality people here that do a really good job backing their opinions up with their reasoning for the path to that position.

 

Not to "circle jerk", but great post.

 

People want to be right and they will fight to be right until they are tired of arguing or they pushed the other guy to that point. A message board is like debate and when do you ever sit back only to see someone say "well you're right and clearly I was wrong" at the very end? Never.

I believe at this moment, Chad Henne is an average starting quarterback. I think he's a less quarterback than say Matthew Stafford or Kyle Orton, but more of a quarterback than someone like Kevin Kolb or Jason Campbell.

There is a chance (25-30%, IMO) that Henne will develop into a good starting quarterback this year. However if he doesn't do it this year, then he is finished in Miami. I believe it could happen and I want it to him to take that next step. However I think it is only justice for Sparano's future to ride solely on the play of Chad Henne.

 

Well VT, some perspective is in order as to "why" Chad Henne is such a target:

2009, 7-6 heading to the final 3 games, we lost all 3, missed the playoffs, stumbling down the stretch with 3 losses
2010: deja vu, 7-6 heading into the final 3 games, only that yr, Henne meltsdown, 0-3 down the stretch, with devestating losses to the Lions and Bills, at home, with Henne having terrible games

2 yrs in a row, crunch time, and Henne folds, in 09 that was more on the Defense and it was Henne's first yr, in 10, the int's changed a lot of views on his game and his future in Miami, and on Sparano's.