Moves To Make?

I keep hearing Slaton is available. Why not? The guy produced even with Foster getting the bulk last season. Gotta be more upside there than Larry Johnson.

 

Don't see much being done that would solve any problems at this point. Anyone who is available is most likely not worth very much, and anyone who is worth much would cost resources that would likely would create a new issue for us. At this point you have to roll with what you have. Every team has weaknesses and holes.

 

Nothing matters at this point at skill positions until the o-line is fixed. If that is improved, everything improves.

 

To me, I give Brian Waters a call, and seriously consider Nate Garner for RT.

 

I think Waters and O'Hara are both better right now than our RG and RT ... quite a bit actually. Ireland can't start the year with Columbo and Carey as side by side starters can he? Maybe even Leonard Davis , seriously I have no confidence either Carey or Columbo can be the right answer for this team . I may be wrong , but I would not bet on them being that if I were Ireland , and if Tony needs to be told he has had another epiphany I'll tell him if Ireland won't.

 

Have to agree, and K Sims was right when he ripped the oline during the game they played like crap.

We may have a solution in Garner, maybe not, but there should be some agent's phones ringing this week.

 

Garner has looked serviceable at RT before. Columbo is looking just like we were all scared he would. Carey doesn't seem to be able to get it done at either spot anymore.

 

It wasn't just that Sims ripped them , he destroyed them pretty much and deservedly so. This is from someone familiar with the team , a home guy , pro bowl Olineman who told it like it was.

That was a performance that warrants immediate action imo. Easy action is O'Hara , he is there waiting and wanting and would make this line better right now.

I will be surprised if there isn't at least one major move within a couple days.

 

Thank You.

Me and a few other guys have been CRYING for an upgrade at OL since the middle of last year. While using our 1st on a Center MAY have been a step in the right direction I feel like it was still not nearly enough. Sadly its looking like im right.

People loved bashing R&R all last season but its starting to become obvious that unless Barry Sanders comes out of retirement we wont be able to run the ball for SH-T.

Getting Long back will be huge and our left side of the line will be fine imo....but the right side looks like a train wreck. Cmon Tony this is your Forte no? Get it fixed or your fist pumping *** will be out of work real soon.

 

I agree that JT addressed the pass rusher need and that LJ is probably all we'll do at RB. I don't see much out there at second TE. I am concerned about the OL and I could see an upgrade coming in there. The only other move that I would like is bringing in Tebow. I don't want to sidetrack this thread into another pro/con Tebow debate since I think that most people's opinions are well established and represented in the Tebow thread. But in a thread where people are listing the moves they see as possibly or at least desirably being made I see OL and 3rd QB upgrades as possible moves.

 

To me, I've always wanted Richie I at RG, so why not bring in Waters to play LG, kick RI to RG, and give Vern C a second go round at RT?

Waters was a all pro in 2010, I know that does not mean "still great player" but it does mean the cat is not completely washed up.

 

The NFL is full of bad offensive lineman. But Waters and O'Hara are both without a job. I don't have much confidence in Carey or Colombo, but I wouldn't have any more confidence in Waters or O'Hara.

 

Ditto. Sometimes the best move is to just let the OL grow together rather than adding players who aren't any better and have even less time to develop chemistry. I don't know whether Waters and O'Hara are better or not, but it seems that the constant churning on the OL has hurt us more than helped us during this regime.

 

I get your point , however I would simply because the proof of how bad C & C are / were is out on the field. I also think they had better years than them last year.

IMO , a semi major move gets done in the next few days.

 

I agree, but they wouldn't have to play right away. You've got to admit there are plenty of guys we could risk letting go; like Berger, Jerry and Feinga. I say roll the dice and bring in O'hare, Davis and Watters. We've got the cap room and at least they might represent an upgrade later on.

 

Moves:

- 1. I think you have to look at the potential needs of the team. Miami is going to be playing plenty of 3-4s this year (I think it's 12-13 games or so). We need our C to be able to hold up against a NT. The only guy I've seen capable of doing that so far is Richie Incognito. He was solid at C last year when he had the snaps given to him and he should not be out there pulling.

- 2. Mike Pouncey in the past has looked like a real impressive RG, able to get out there and pull and I'm fairly sure he can play the position in the NFL. He might not be a mauler, but he gives you a second pulling guard on the right side who can pass protect.

- 3. Miami is throwing the ball quite a bit this pre-season and I expect that to continue. We need an excellent pass protector, that can pull and run over some of these nickel and dime formations we're facing. That guy is Brian Waters, who is a free agent fortunately. I think you can plug him in and Henne won't have to worry much with Long-Waters protecting his backside (sounds wrong a bit though).

- 4. Nate Garner is probably Miami's best RT especially if he settled down and was given that spot. He is a functional solid run-blocker especially against defensive ends and he's also a solid pass protector from what I've seen. He's nothing amazing, but perhaps he could be on the level of a Todd Wade of 2002 (more pass oriented though).

LT- Long
LG- Waters
C- Incognito
RG- Pouncey
RT- Garner

This line is solid for taking on a 3-4 in the run game with the mobility at the guard spots, strong physically at C with Incognito, and most importantly it can pass protect.

As far as the backups I think Jerry could become a decent tackle. He looks like a right tackle and that's where he can use his size to create room for the run game. He looked ok at LT yesterday and as the ninth linemen he could have some upside.

Also it looks like Andre Gurode might be available soon. He's a longtime C that's always been a good bet against larger NTs. I could see an offensive line with him at C, Pouncey at LG, and Incognito at RG or Incognito-Pouncey the other way around (no one says you have to pull right).

 

I hate to get into the woulda coulda shoulda game but I can't help it. I see what Antwan Barnes is doing over in San Diego and can't help but wonder why they didn't give him a call. He signed for really cheap, he's worth double what he signed for and I'd be more comfortable with him picking up the slack in pass rush than I am Jason Taylor.

The problem with the Dolphins' depth at tight end is that they don't even have specialists. They don't even have guys that for instance are blockers but don't do much catching passes. One place I would look for help would be the Arizona Cardinals. Ken Whisenhunt is a former Tight Ends coach. Horrible Kevin Kolb trade decision aside, the guy has looked like a pretty good coach, one would assume he knows what he's about especially in his area of expertise. Looking at the Tight End play over there, they have some good ones. They drafted Rob Housler and so naturally he's going to make the roster. They signed Todd Heap and he's doing well over there so far. Behind those two they have guys like Jim Dray, Stephen Spach, Stephen Skelton and Jeff King. I assume King isn't long for that roster. At the very least he'd be a veteran presence but I would look toward Spach and Dray. Watching them play, they seem well coached and they're both good blockers. We don't even have that right now, so there's nothing wrong with adding some of what we don't have. Nobody is confusing either Spach or Dray for great athletes. Spach ran a 4.90 coming out of school and Dray ran a 4.82. I'd say that Spach is a little quicker of the two, where Dray is more of a guy that gets going at a higher speed once he's got going a little.

Another guy that caught my eye a little bit is Cody Slate in St. Louis. He's more of the pass catching type. He came out of Marshall and was injured I believe in his final year there. But on the touchdown he caught this weekend, he flat out beat on an out-and-up route a linebacker Jabara Williams that ran a 4.57 at his pro day. So you know the guy can be a mismatch problem in man coverage, and he looked pretty smooth. I think Scott Pioli values the TE position a lot, so he doesn't neglect it (unlike some front offices), and therefore it wouldn't surprise me if they put together a position that just held too many guys. They just signed Anthony Becht. They have Tony Moeaki as their starter. Leonard Pope is there too. Then there's Jake O'Connell and Charlie Gantt on top of all that. Cody could get caught in the numbers game and I'd happily add him to be more of a pass catching/mismatch specialist. Some graded him as a FB coming out of Marshall, so he's your typical H-Back type. But like I said, being able to flat out-match guys with true 4.60 speed, that shows you something. He's also strong, did 27 bench reps coming out of college. Before he got hurt in his senior year 2009, he'd caught 50 balls for 607 yards and 4 TDs. The year before 2008, he caught 40 balls for 510 yards and 8 TDs in 2008 for the Marshall Thundering Herd. And the year before that 2007, he'd caught 66 balls for 818 yards and 5 TDs. And the year before that 2006, he caught 43 balls for 684 yards and 6 TDs. That's 199 catches for 2619 yards and 23 TDs in 4 seasons. He led the team in touchdown catches all four seasons, and led them in catches and yards in two of the four seasons. The guy is a player. If the Chiefs make the mistake of cutting him, I would be all over him.

There are several running backs that have caught my attention. Probably none should be regarded more highly than DuJuan Harris who is with the Jaguars...but I don't think they're letting him go. He's the guy Miami should have signed over Nic Grigsby. I like Grigsby but I think he's practice squad material. If the Jags let DuJuan go it'll be because of rookie fumblitis. He got caught trying to do too much in Week 2, executing a lot of spins and stuff while in the midst of a crowd, someone poked the ball out. You have to know when to just pick up what you can pick up. And this week, he "fumbled" again, using the term loosely because the ground caused the fumble and it should have been ruled that way but the refs didn't feel they had the camera angle to overturn the call on the field. What DuJuan gives you is a really FAST guy that knows a little bit how to run behind his blockers. He sinks real low in his cuts and can explode out of them, and he does a surprising amount after contact. He's got true 4.40 type speed, and he shows it when he runs routes and makes getting open look easy. He caught a touchdown from Blaine Gabbert and then they turned around and went for a 2-point conversion and caught that one for a successful try, basically two touchdown catches on back to back plays.

Aside from him I thought Anthony Elzy up in Buffalo showed some nice things to where he might be worth paying attention to. Again, versatility. He blocked well, he caught the ball well, and he was an OK one-cut type runner. Jeremiah Johnson might be worth looking at as well. Perhaps Joique Bell, or Richard Medlin.

 

CK can you think of a team that's used a double H-Back set before? Perhaps Slate and Clay on the field at the same time?

 

Gurode is in trouble in Dallas even with Costa going down, Jerruh wants to meet with him and his agent.

THAT would solve some headaches.

 

Honestly I'm all about taking a Slate and having him compete. If that means Clay sits the bench so be it.

 

I hope it is. I haven't watched him play. But he has a history of playing Guard.

 

Elzy was just cut by the bills

I think we are going to sniff around the Broncos and Cowboys rosters, because atm, if Fasano goes down we are in deep trouble.

 

We could resign K. Sims, but he sucked at run blocking when he was here too.

 

I suspect he has one of those "take a pay cut or get cut" offers awaiting him.

 

As far as Slate goes I would be pretty frightened to face a formation with Clay on the left of Henne and Slate on his right. Based on match-ups Henne would be able to move the two H-Backs who will without a doubt cause mismatches.

CK Gurode is not a good guard. He's a very good C though if you ask him to take on large linemen. Why are these guys so opposed to Pouncey as a guard? Why is it impossible to put Carey back at RT or start Garner?

 

CK, Why is Brian Waters still available? It seems to me we could cut both Columbo and Carey, sign Waters and go with Garner at RT. That has to be a better combination than what we've got now. And before anyone gets all mushy about Carey the is not what he was a couple of years ago and he's stinkin' up the joint along with Columbo.

 

I'm taking a look at Gurode's game last week against the Chargers.

First thing is first, this is a pretty big dude. And he seems like he still moves pretty well for being big, in terms of short area quickness and explosion. He's got some energy. I watch him block and immediately I'm not worried about his anchor ability at all. He's not lost that.

But right away as well when you see him have to get on the hoof, you can tell why Dallas is starting to sour on him. He labors when he runs.

But when you get right down to it, he moves people. He gets his hands on them, he's strong, and he can move people. He seems pretty aware in zone protections and he's comfortable switching off. He packs a strong punch. His hands are very good and strong, he locks on and steers. He's got some of that old lineman's nastiness and improvisational ability, to make up for things that his body doesn't want to do anymore like cut blocking. His hands let him stay engaged with defenders longer than they want to, they want to shed and go for the ball but he's able to stop them from doing that.

But the bottom line is he seems to be operating on flat tires. There's no spring in his feet anymore. He gets flat footed. Using him at Center would be a step in the wrong direction and putting him at Right Guard, you worry that he might look like what we already have there at Right Guard. The benefit of putting Gurode at Center would be taking back control of our short yardage offense. So there would be short term benefits...but in the long run Pouncey's here to do things that Gurode can't. I'd rather not interrupt Pouncey's learning curve at Center.

He would probably be an upgrade over Carey at Right Guard. The question I'm wrestling with is, would he be an upgrade over Nate Garner at Right Guard as well? Garner definitely has more spring in his step and the ability to get out and create space.

I don't see Andre Gurode being the answer. The Dolphins need to find a Right Tackle that can actually play football and they need to put Nate Garner in at Right Guard. Either that or have Garner play Left Guard and Incognito move to Right Guard, while again finding someone to play Right Tackle that is actually good at football.

 

I'd expect some movement this week. Ireland mentioned the the possibility of trades after the third preseason game.

Obviously Merling is trade bait, perhaps the Jones v Culver loser will be as well. If Spencer Havner has indeed been cut in Green Bay, then I think the second tight end position is solved already.

 

I'm still not seeing what the benefit of having Pouncey at C over Incognito is though. That I just can't see. Switch those two that might help with the short yardage problem.

 

Pouncey is here to play Center long term. They want him to learn that position. I can't blame them for that because I think he could make a pretty good Center long term. They don't want to interrupt his learning curve there and that's smart. Why get into a situation where you keep moving a guy back and forth as if you don't know what he really is, he never gets comfortable at one position, and before you know it everyone are calling him a bust? Not a good situation to bring about. Keep him at Center. He won't be as good this year as he will be eventually, and no I really don't think he's outright all that much an upgrade on Joe Berger even as a rookie, but it's still best for him longer term.

Besides, moving him to Guard wouldn't help the offensive line. His problem is strength. He doesn't move people very well off the ball and every now and then anchoring becomes an issue. Those things will only become MAGNIFIED if he moves to a Guard position. You have to be able to punch and have it rock someone if you're a Guard. You have to be able to move someone off the ball straight ahead, because you can't rely on double teams like you do at Center. Yeah, sometimes you'll be pulling, but not all that often. The ability to move people is still more important.

I don't know that anyone would be "scared" of the combination of a 6th round pick and a former undrafted free agent that is on his second team in as many years. I'm just saying he's an option. The Dolphins have done a good job in the past at times of picking up two guys to compete instead of counting on just the one. Put a Cody Slate here to compete with Charles Clay and if Clay doesn't pan out maybe Cody does, and if Cody doesn't pan out maybe Clay does. It's hedging your bets as best you can. Getting way ahead of yourself if you think having two undersized H-Backs with such low pedigree on the field is going to frighten defenses.

 

I wish I knew, but it's probably much the same as with Colombo being let go, Gurode now facing the ax, Leonard Davis getting axed, Carey being forced to take a pay cut...if you're old, you can look like you're trying to play on two flat tires and that doesn't work very well in the NFL. It's worse if you're letting yourself go physically, on top of the age. Linemen don't block with their names.

 

I'm not sure Spencer Havner interests me that much truth be told. I guess I can take a look tho.

 

If that's the case with Pouncey it'll take a couple of camps for him to get to the level of center he has to. On the other hand they've got major problems with the tackles as previously mentioned. Somewhere something has to click. If it's an issue of getting Garner in at one guard spot I think it would have been done already. I'm not sure what they do but it's almost guaranteed that something will happen at this rate.

 

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Not sure what else is out there, but I'm guessing it would cost a trade. Havner is relatively new to the position, so I would imagine 'upside' still figures in to any evaluation

 

That's assuming they know what they're doing on the offensive line, though. If they did, we wouldn't really be having this conversation to begin with. If you're going to assume they know what they're doing on the offensive line then you might as well just hold the opinion that there's nothing wrong with the personnel there and all they need is time to gel as a unit.