I will support our coach on this decision, but...

Philbin knows way more about Flynn than you or I do, if we sign him then you may as well trust his judgment.

1. I disagree with that notion... most of those players are system players, IMO.

2. I think the game mattered to Detroit... they had a chance to secure the 5th seed which meant facing the NFC East champion and not the New Orleans Saints... at that time, I'd much rather would have wanted to face Eli Manning than Drew Brees...

3. It's an unknown that you can't really prove or disprove.

4. Not enough tape to base this claim off of but he made plenty of throws in the Detroit game.

5. I disagree... he's 6'2" and 225 pounds... same size as Aaron Rodgers.

6. I am fine with going into the season with Moore as the starter but if Philbin feels Flynn has the upside to be a franchise-caliber quarterback... pull the trigger.

7. To each their own... I won't be upset if we go that route but I'll trust Philbin's judgment.

 

1. I disagree with Jennings as a top 5 receiver, Driver as a top 5 receiver that is third on the depth chart for his respective team, and Finley as a top 5 tight end.

2. I disagree with this, as well. The New England and Detroit games did matter. Detroit had a playoff spot locked up, but as GIK stated, winning the game meant facing Eli instead of Brees.

3. I agree that he had excellent coaching. Fortunately, we have the coach responsible for coming up with the offensive game plan's for GB.

4. No offence, but aren't you a fan of Andy Dalton? If arm strength wasn't an issue for you in evaluating Dalton, why is it an issue for Flynn?

5. Like GIK stated, he size really is not an issue. At least, in my opinion it isn't. He sees the field well at 6'2.

6. Not sure about Matt Moore vs Matt Flynn. That's a tough call for me. I have to watch more of both.

7. I can understand this statement. This will be a make or break signing for Ireland and Philbin.

At this point, I have to say I'm on the Flynn bandwagon. My ideal off season would be to sign Flynn and one of Mario Williams/Robert Mathis/John Abraham. I believe we have the cap to accomplish this.

 

I watched every single game of Matt flynns senior year at lsu and I can say that Flynn has something to offer in the NFL...just not for this team. You know who needs a guy like flynn? The ravens. Flynn is a smart qb who will on occasion wow you with a nice play but almost never screws up. He won't win you many games but he won't lose any either. I too doubt his ability to attack a defense and I'm not sure he will succeed without a fantastic running game and a smart hc.

And truly, he's not an upgrade over Moore. Theyre pretty similar really, except one isn't going to cost us anything and the other will cost us everything.

 

I don't know how good or bad Matt Flynn is BUT Coach Philbin does and if he can coach Flynn to produce 6 TD's against the #9 ranked defense, per FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS - #5 against the pass BTW, which he did his arm is good enought imvho.

 

i'd go with tannehill or weeden at this point...end the peyton project and the loser of the RG3 sweepstakes will get flynn...yes philbin knows him, but that doesn't mean jack...if team x can offer him more cash and guarantee him the starter spot, he's going there..he'll have to compete with Moore, like it or not...and there's NO guaranetee he can even beat Moore out for the starting job

 

1. greg jennings didn't even play in this game.
2.teams with momentum usually win in the nfc playoffs so yea the game mattered to ther lions.
3.We have the coaches and his per pass attempt against the lions was 10.57 I wouldn't call that checkdown chad numbers.
4.See #3
5. drew brees does?
6.Never good enough to get you too the playoffs.
7.we will find out because I trust in philbin.

 

LOL....just saying....LTFOL

 

Philbin obviously knows Flynn, in that system. But what I dont understand is why we all trust in Philbin. We all agree that Flynn has very little starting QB exp, so its hard to say how he will do. Philbin has 0 head coaching exp so I dont feel all that comfortable "trusting" whole-heartedly in him. We have had a myriad of different QBs since Marino, but we also can say the same about coaches since Shula!

 

if the detroit game was hogwash why did they start all of their starting players, when green bay started their backup QB? why didnt they have simple playcalling to just play the game out?
Matt stafford threw the ball 59 times.... 520 yards 5 touchdowns and 2 picks..
Calvin johnson had 11 catches for 211 yards...

Matt flynn started as a backup to Aaron rodgers..
Greg jennings also sat out that game...

you sure that that game meant nothing to detroit?

 

I have no idea if Flynn is an upgrade over Moore or not. I wasn't high on Flynn coming out of LSU and neither were most NFL teams, since he wasn't drafted until the seventh round. I will leave it up to Philbin to determine if he thinks Flynn would be an upgrade or not. Especially since Flynn would be the designated starter the moment he signs his contract and if it is with the Dolphins, Philbin will basically be putting his job on the line if Flynn ends up a bust in Miami.

As far as Moore not costing anything. I bet to differ, because Moore is costing the Dolphins two million dollars in salary next year. While two millions dollars may be cheap for an NFL QB, it certainly isn't nothing , as you imply it is.

 

Two Million Dollars for a Back-Up QB who can take over and lead the team to a 6-3 streak to close a season is not to be sneezed at, but it sure is more valuable when used to assure the presence of that person than a complete unknown, or worse, a known who can barely lead the team out of the huddle.

 

That may be true, but that's not the argument you were making... your statement was that he does not have prototypical size, and he's the same size as Rodgers...I'll take that as being prototypical...although, ideally you may want a couple of inches more in height... You could say Rodgers is lacking in prototypical size but then you'd also have to say that size aside, Rodgers is ideal as a QB...

At any rate....

I agree with you that there just isn't enough experience to go on, but the point that Philbin has been his coach for 4 yrs and probably knows his strengths and weaknesses better than any other team out there looking for a QB makes his opinion that much more relevant. So like you, I'd default to Philbin is they go after him.

My biggest concern is that they will look at that draft and where we pick at and feel that they HAVE to go after Flynn, even if Tannehill or possibly Weeden are better prospects because getting either in the draft is a crap shoot... If they don't have a FA qb signed by draft time, it will literally leave our fly open to any other team that also covets one of these guys.

The conspiracy theorist in me says they will go after Flynn to be 'safe'...It's in Ireland's DNA to be 'safe'... If Irish doesn't have a Flynn type FA qb on the roster and comes out of the draft with someone other than one of the top 4 QBs or none of the above, then he can kiss his comfy position with Ross goodbye...

It's also in Ross' mind to make a splash and a Flynn acquisition fits that bill as well. I don't think they will chance getting Manning, the cost and risk are too high, even for Ross.

On April 30th if MMoore is our QB and there isn't another name on the roster besides Flynn, Manning, Tannehill, RG3, Luck or even Weeden....they have not achieved what Ross promised they'd do...now, it may be that whoever is on the roster at that time, even if one of those names, we may still not have a 'franchise' guy here, but that's a debate for another thread...

 

I think you're grasping at straws here to rationalize your points.

Yes, the Lions would play hard to better their seeding, and they would certainly play hard against their division rival, one that they want to beat to not only avenge an earlier loss, but to prove to GB that they're a team that needs to be taken seriously.

 

Whats hogwash is this thread, sorry dj but ur being completely clueless when it comes to what Detroits motives were, they werent just happy to be in the playoffs that's hogwash, they wanted to playing for the better matchup. They even stated so. I am not saying Flynn is a HOFer of even a franchise QB. But i am just as qualified to judge QBs as you are and i saw more in that game than i saw from alot of other backups that signed for huge contracts and played on more games prior to that. And i watched that game a few times with local packer fans who are better qualified than i am.

I think its funny you would prefer a QB who is projected as a project and never played a down of NFL ball for a guy who won a NC and performed excellent in the two games he played in and has four years of learning in the pros under him. Sounds like an agenda of ripping one guy to make the other sound like a better option.

 

Sorry DJ, I find most of this thread to be very inaccurate and the rest I just don't agree with.

1} I think one thru three at receiver, and starting tight end, green bay is top 5 at each position..Jennings is top 5 for me, Jordy is a top 5 2nd receiver, easy, Donald driver is a top 5 3rd receiver, and Finley is a top 5 talent at his position.. If you actually look at who played, the talent wasn't much better than what you find in Miami. I actually could care less even if it was. I think you can get more out of an evaluation in even a preseason game than you can by trying to discount stats by accounting for a supporting cast.

2} I don't believe the games he played in mattered to the opponent.. I think anybody who watched the games would dispute that. Those opponents were clearly trying to win.

3} I believe he has had superior coaching and had a gameplan that was catered to his checkdown and short zone strengths during those two games. And that is the same superior coaching and gameplanning he should have here.

4} I don't believe his arm can threaten every inch of a football field...I feel once the games get more intense, the defenses get better, the more constricted he will become from the pocket. I disagree. Most people, even his detractors, concede that he can make every throw.

5] he does not have prototype size, he does not have prototype arm strength. He is 6'2" 225. IMO 6'2" - 6'5" and 210 - 240 is prototype size.

6} we have Matt Moore on our roster, and I believe he can spin the ball better..same age...same height..more experience.. None of that is as relevant a whether he can create when the play breaks down. That's what separates the passable starters from the potentially elite guys. Flynn has shown greater ability in that regard.

7] I don't want to sign a player with limited talent to a franchise type contract, I'd rather have the combination of Moore, a rookie with very high upside, and spend that 30 to 40 mill on our many other holes...His talent just doesn't make me want to go all in on.. I like Tannehill and Weedon so I wouldn't complain about those either, but there are classes of franchise contracts. The proven elite get that +$12 - $14 mil/ per contract. Guys like Flynn are going to get that $8 - $9 mill/per contract. That's what any starter will end up at. Moore is only cheap at the $2 mill/per rate b/c so few believed in him. Realistically a good back-up is going to get at least $5 mill/per.

 

1.I left out Nelson because I agree.

2. Completely disagree. Watch the game. They gave complete and total effort. They did not rest anyone. In fact, GB was the team missing a player not Detroit. Greg Jennings didn't play.

4. I just don't see how not having elite arm strength is a knock on Flynn but not Dalton

 

You are basing his skill set and everything else on TWO games that he has started in his career? I remember watching how bad John Elway was in his first couple games here in Colorado....it takes time to prepare yourself for the NFL. I think Flynn gives us the best shot at success as he would be able to play right away in Philbin's system. You can go out and draft all the college QB's you want, but they are not going to be ready for several years, other than maybe Andrew Luck. If P. Manning isn't physically able to play than I hope we sign Matt Flynn.

 

In the New England game in 2010, he played without Jermichael Finley, Ryan Grant or James Starks. In the Detroit game in 2011, he threw 6 TDs without the help of Greg Jennings, who sat out the game, or James Starks. As for Jordy Nelson, he had him in both games, but it SHOULD be noted that in 2010 Nelson had not broken out yet and therefore only played on 22 of the 48 pass snaps. He was hardly a "top 5 2nd receiver" back in 2010.

How in the world did the NE game not matter to the opponent? You really think that? On what basis? I can't even begin to even see what you MIGHT be talking about on that one. As for the Week 17 Detroit game we'll just have to agree to disagree. I watched that game live and I've seen it on replay. The Lions were playing HARD in that game, and they wanted to win, because they didn't want to have to face New Orleans in the playoffs. If they won that game, their seeding would have been different and they would have played against Atlanta rather than New Orleans. Trust me, that's what they wanted. They played hard and there was a reason it was a true barn burner with lead changes and only a final touchdown at the end of the game clinched it.

You mean the coaching that'll be present in Miami?

What throws can't he make?

Neither do Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, arguably the top two QBs in the NFL this year. On either account.

Agree to disagree on Matt Moore "spinning the ball better".

We won't be signing him to a "franchise type" contract. We'd be signing him to a starter's contract, because that's what he'd be. A REAL "franchise type" contract costs a lot more money than that. See the contracts of the likes of Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, etc. See the contracts that Joe Flacco and Drew Brees will sign.

The thing with all this is it all boils down to what you see. You keep saying he has limited talent and then you build everything off that. But what you're not really demonstrating in any way at all, is that he has limited talent. I'd like a few more specifics, maybe some visual aids, etc. Evidence. What's the evidence that his talent is in any way lacking. That's what I'd like to see.

 

A couple things, getting Flynn means being able to spend both our first and second round picks on OTHER needs besides a QB and I would expect a contract for Flynn to give us an "out" in the second year so we can part ways if he really struggles as a starter.

I look at Flynn and I don't see a QB that could carry a team, but he plays very well in the system Philbin is bringing here, so with another playmaker at WR/TE he could do well in Miami.

 

That's fine...I'd take Rodgers every day and twice on Sunday over Flynn, but that's not what you were arguing...you said you didn't like us going after Flynn because he isn't prototypical size. I showed you that Rodgers and Brees, for example aren't prototypical size yet are elite QBs. Flynn may turn out to be elite, we don't know that, but the fact that he's not prototypical size has nothing to do with whether or not he can be elite... After all, Chad Henne is prototypical size and has a prototypical NFL level arm....is he elite ??

 

By rookie with upside, you're likely referring to Tannehill. It's very likely he won't be available to us at #8/9, at this time in the draft process, he won't be available after that either... Are you suggesting we trade up for Tannehill ?? Lose valuable draft picks ?? Are you suggesting we wait for the next guy, maybe in the second round in Weeden ?? A lot can happen during the draft. If we pass on or don't get Tannehill at #8/9, will we get Weeden in the second when we pick ?? Are you willing to wait and see on that ??

I don't know that waiting is the right thing to do. If Philbin wants Flynn, then we can truly take BPA or need positions if we choose...

The bottom line is that IF Philbin thinks Flynn can be better than MMoore and IF he signs/wants to sign here, the best option is for us to sign him up....all we lose is cap space. The contract can be written to protect us long term if needed... Then we are free to go into the draft and get a couple of players that this team needs....

Really, I'm with ya' on Flynn. I don't like the limited time with real bullets flying for him, despite his good showings... I'm not convinced he's a franchise guy...however, I'm also not convinced that Tannehill, Weeden or MMoore are either...

 

That doesn't seem like an honest comparison. If you want to make it a true comparison it would go more like:

Moore, a rookie QB, two upgrade FAs vs. Flynn, Moore, #1 pick, 1 upgrade FA.

 

I expect either of Flynn, Tannehill or Weeden to be added to the Dolphins roster this year. Philbin knows more about Flynn than any other team in the hunt. Sherman knows more about Tannehill and if you look at the stats Weeden beat Tannehill, RGIII and Luck heads up this year. I’m very interested to see which way they go.

For the first time in a long while I feel pretty good about the future of the QB position for the Miami Dolphins with Matt Moore as the incumbent.

 

In Flynn-Bin we trust!!!

 

If the new coach wants Flynn then we have to go get him, no one has seen more of Flynn than him, no one. We can all think whatever we want but we haven't seen enough of Flynn to know whether or not he's elite. But if our new coach believes in him then Ross has to get the deal done with him. The new coach has a new system and if he doesn't think that Moore is the guy to run that system and Flynn is then its a done deal and we have to get him. Maybe he doesn't think Flynn is worth a 8-10million a year contract, we really don't know yet. I don't see how any fans can know one way or the other yet, to me its all up to the coach, if he wants him and is willing to risk his career on him I hope we get Flynn.

 

I'm pretty shocked there is this much support for Matt Flynn. I don't mind it at all but Did any of you follow the Kevin kola situation? And you can't say its not the same cause it's almost exactly the same, save for the fact that there was actually far more tape of kolb in the NFL than there is of Flynn.

I'm just surprised by the strong support for Flynn. I think some of us have really fallin in love with the idea of becoming what the packers are but need to remember that getting Philbin and potentially flyn will not make it so. Mike McCarthy (and Philbin) are very smart football guys and they knew how to utilize Flynn well, but would Philbin really want him as his every day qb? Well I guess we're going to find out.

For the record, I'd be cool with Flynn. He got my team a national title in college and Itd be kind of a full circle thing for me tosee him line up as Mia is qb next season.

 

Flynn and Kolb only appear the same to somebody who doesn't actually evaluate the QB play.

 

The situations are similar, not the QBs...both out of no where, in the WCO, having limited success as a backup and getting notoriety because of that, in a QB friendly system with good talent around them... The similarity ends there. These are two different QBs, different strengths and Kolb is a 2nd rounder, not a 7th rounder...

The strong support you talk of is based on one thing, and one thing alone...Philbin. Because he's been with the kid for 4 seasons, is known for developing QBs, and has intimate knowledge of whether the kid is capable of being the man or not is why there is support for him on these boards...I think we all have said that IF we don't go after Flynn, it'll be because Philbin had some doubts about the kid and most would be fine with that...

 

Without getting into each and every opinion you've posted, lets not forget one thing. This kid has been operating in the WCO. It's designed to stretch the field horizontally, not vertically. It's designed to move the ball more via YAC than vertical, down the field passing. It's a timing offense and although there were some floaters coming from Flynn, there was also very accurately placed and timed passes from Flynn. The ball was, for the most part where it should have been, when it should have been.

Henne's got more of an arm than Joe Montana or Steve Young ever dreamed about having...doesn't make him more successful in this scheme or any scheme. I mean, Henne can cover every inch of the football field with his arm. Was the fact that Flynn got hit in the pocket and lost the ball his fault or his piecemeal OL's fault they'd been dealing with during that season ?? I would hope that the game plan was adjusted for Flynn...he's not Rodgers and has different strengths and weaknesses. That's called coaching and sometimes (see Montana) makes the difference between a flash in the pan and a longer career. His ability to read defenses likely is not as good as Rodgers, nor would it be expected to be. Let's put a little perspective on what the kid did accomplish versus what he didn't or in your words, can't do...

I'm not saying that Flynn is the next Montana or even that I think he can be, but I am saying that if Philbin feels the kid can do the job in this offense, we have to default to his knowledge of the kid.

 

ive read every word of every post and it seems to be getting to the point where we are beating a dead horse. DJ Great first post, i didnt agree with it, said why, but you took the time to base your opinion... credit due. also to everyone else who did their research, also credit due.. alot of agree to disagree... but if we keep repeating the same sh*t its starting to go nowhere. if you want a great statistical breakdown of matt flynn, i read this last night.

http://phinphanatic.com/2012/02/17/matt-flynn-college-and-nfl-resume/

before reading this i didn't have much evidence of flynn either besides a above average showing in the NC game at LSU and the two pro games.. this read is a great breakdown of EVERYTHING he has done so far in the NFL...