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51 Olinemen signed or drafted = 3 current starters

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Itsdahumidity, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Since 2008 irish, the great talent evaluator, drafted or signed FIFTY-ONE offensive linemen resulting in only three legitimate starters currently on the roster. Oh but wait. Parcells was responsible for most of them right? Answer this then. Why is it that when irish "took over" he brought in the same type of linemen? Y'know, maintaining that DAL to MIA pipeline.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/01/2725083/miami-dolphins-offensive-line.html

    How could anyone with a functioning brain defend this?

    Admin Edit: Getting tired of the personal jabs and blanket insults of late.

    Be better (e.g. follow the rules) or your threads will be automatically closed, your posts deleted and/or your posting privileges suspended. This goes for everyone.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Before you start questioning people's mental capacity:

    1. Do you know if that's a lot of lineman, compared to other teams? I don't. It would be nice to see a comparison.
    2. Do you understand what a GM's job is, especially under Parcells? I don't think you do.
     
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  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    how could anyone with a functioning brain post a stupid article like this, especially focusing on the "51 lineman"? Given the size of that number, I can only assume that dumba$$ Armando is including signings that we are knew were camp fodder or practice squad guys. if Armando had gotten off his lazy butt, a better analysis would be to write a story on which of those lineman were actually expected to compete for a starting position. would still be too many, but not the melodramatic 51.

    No one here is going to claim that we have a great offensive line. But we do have 1 great OLineman, 1 pro-bowl-caliber center. 2 serviceable linemen in Cogs and Jerry/Murtha. If we can pickup one good lineman after cuts occur this summer we'll be in fine shape. Newsflash to all the kids, you can't name more than a few teams in the NFL that have very solid starters all across the Oline. they usually have a weak link, we just happen to have two. fix one of them, we'll be fine.
     
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  4. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Ah as per usual you fell for the number instead of reading and understanding. Kinda funny you mention a 'functioning brain'.

    In other words.....most of it was bottom roster churning.

    Yes it was ridiculous that they couldn't hit on these low picks/roster churning outside of Nate Garner.........and the jury is still out on Lydon Murtha. Also their free agent pick-ups have been highly injury prone. Lets not over exaggerate though by focusing on '51'. Ironically where most of those resources went to...that side is secure (Center/LG/LT). It's the side where they haven't invested much in outside of a 3rd rounder on tubby John Jerry and a ridiculous signing in Columbo. Sure they gave Carey a large contract extension but he did play well for us for many years until his body just broke down, which wasn't all that surprising since he was never a guy who was big on conditioning.

    However if they manage to pick up Jake Scott...really the only OL spot in question would be RT.....maybe LG. However, that's to be expected since we are changing systems and Incognito doesn't really fit that athlectic OL mold.
     
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  5. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    I would agree that Ireland seems to have a deficiency in identifying o-lineman talent. Specifically in the later rounds, something successful gms need to be able to do.
     
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  6. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    this really needed a new thread ? why not post this "important" info at the 100+ ireland sucks threads out there
     
  7. Wulf

    Wulf New Member

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    What is the "date" used for the "Ireland takeover"? Parcells was still in town 2 off-seasons ago...
    I believe we've brought in more Panthers and Bears, than we have Cowboys since Parcells left town...
    Who did he sign from Dallas last year? Burnett? He spent his previous two years as a Charger, and played well for us
    Colombo? Wasn't he a former 1st round pick of the Bears before spending two seasons with the Cowboys. AFTER the trifecta were in Miami? And wasn't he signed as a backup?
     
  8. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    How many where white though? :shifty:
     
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  9. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    If you're including this years FA signings in that total, then by default it'd have to be 5 current starters. You can't only start 3 players on the OL. You can return 3 starters however.
     
  10. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Because
    a) Ireland worked for Quitcells.
    b) that worked for them in Dallas and NY, NE, NYJ, etc
    c) you keep working at it until you get it right
    d) Ireland may have acquired those guys, but someone has to be coaching them up for them to be successful. For the things that Tony did right, his prowess as an OL coach wasn't one of them.
    e) when Irish 'took over', the same scheme and processes were still in place. Quitcells left, not the coaching staff so sure, he brought in the same types that Tony wanted....

    Way to twist things around to blame the guy that everyone wants to see the blame get put on...

    Oh and most important thing I forgot: Look at who wrote the article ?? Pluhlese....Mando again...
     
  11. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Ireland has taken on Parcells persona as a GM.Drafting OL and DL is manly ,drafting QBs and WRs is unmanly.:wink2:
     
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  12. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    posts deleted - attack the post, not the poster.
     
  13. I think its fair to say that Ireland has invested a lot of team resources into the O-Line and has limited sucess as a result.
     
  14. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    ^ This. Not sure how serious you're being, but in response to the first part - I think the biggest misconception from some of the pro-Ireland folks is that Ireland has any desire to have a different philosophy from Parcells. Parcells brought in people who would do his bidding and who shared his line of thinking. Parcells philosophy no longer works in today's NFL unless the goal is to build a mediocre team. Parcells is gone. Tony Sparano is gone. But we're still stuck with Ireland. In my humble opinion, until Jeff Ireland is gone the mistakes of his failed regime will continue to haunt the Miami Dolphins.
     
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  15. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Getting tired of the personal jabs and blanket insults of late.

    Be better (e.g. follow the rules) or your threads will be automatically closed, your posts deleted and/or your posting privileges suspended.
     
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  16. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I have the solution....

    Let's cut every lineman, every running back, every wide receiver and draft nothing but quarterbacks....


    Quarterbacks, quarterbacks, quarterbacks....

    Announcer:

    At Left Left Quarterback, from the University of College, number 99...
    At Left Quarterback, from the University of College, number 98...
    At Center Quarterback, from the University of College, number 97...
    At Right Quarterback, from the University of College, number 96...
    At Right Right Quarterback, from the University of College, number 95...
    At Tight Quarterback, from the University of College, number 89...
    At Wide Quarterback, from the University of College, number 88...
    At Wide Quarterback, from the University of College, number 87...
    At Running Quarterback, from the University of College, number 29...
    At Full Quarterback, from the University of College, number 39...
    And At Quarterback Quarterback, from the University of College, number 19...

    There...is that better?
     
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  17. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Mike Pouncey was the last OL drafted and he doesn't fit the mold at all. Either does new FA Artis Hicks for that matter. Not much of a theory IMO.
     
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  18. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    We are nt different then any team in the NFL, the article is complete bunk. For a player to even attend OTAs he has to be " signed " contract wise. Some teams have upwards of 90 players suring OTAs then trim it down to 83 ( I think its 83) for camp. That does not include a half dozen players signed for camp due to injury, or just plain replacing players cut in camp, maybe more then a half dozen. Amongst them is certainly a lot of Olineman.

    Just in summer camp alone you have 5 starters, 5 second teamers and 3 or 4 other guys plugged in here or there. Thats anywhere between 13 to 15 in camp and we keep 7 dressed and usually 2 inactive on game day which is 9 This is the same way all teams operate. Counting OTAs, cuts, camp cuts and roster cuts, most NFL teams can bring somehwee between 18 to 20 different Olineman , with signed contracts, thru the OTA/Camp periods. Ireland has been here 4 years and even we we kept the same 5 starters the entire time and doing the rudimentary math. On average we use then cut 8 to 9 offensive lineman a year. He has been here 4 years, thats 36 players right there alone. Now take into account guys that were injured and had to be replaced along the way, players signed for a week then sent packing and the 9 starters or should say, players that actually make the roster ? Well you have the 36 that were basically here for practice purposes, the 9 that made the roster, thats 45 players right there. Add in the injured and ones brought in for reason I failed to realize and no, 51 offensive lineman run thru an organization in 4 years is absolutely not ablnormal at all.

    You can take any team in the NFL, any team, they all have between 14 to 16 offensive lineman thru OTAs and camp. Do the numbers in a 4 year period and its no different. The article evidently was pointed in a fashion to demeanor one particular individual and the writer did not do any substantil research because if he did he would have seen we are no different then anyone else
     
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  19. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

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    I think Murtha can be a quality starting right tackle especially in this scheme of zone blocking where we need athletic lineman. So let Hicks, Garner, Jerry and if we draft someone or sign someone else compete for RG and were set.
     
  20. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

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    Our O line would look a lot better in a better offense with better coaching as well. And oh the offense we run is 3 step quick release most of the time and bootleg so our line will look a lot better this year just on that.
     
  21. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Our Oline will be fine. Lets face it, in 2010 and 2011 we were playing with virtually no right side of an offensive line. People can cheer or not cheer for any players they choose but in 2010 Vernon Carey and pick who was ever there weekly at RG, was not a good right side.

    In 2011 Marc Columbo and Vernon Carey again, was not even close to a halfway decent right side.

    We get someone even half decent at RT and RG and this is a very good offensive line.
     
  22. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Armando's Theme

    Trolling, trolling,
    Over the bounding main,
    Maybe we'll see if anyone here
    will rise to the bait again.

    Trolling, Trolling,
    Over the bounding main,
    We'll investigate every move we make
    So we can blame Ireland again!
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Colombo joined the Cowboys in 2005. Was there through 2010.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    WTF?? When did they make you a mod? Talk about the inmates running the asylum. :sidelol:


    ;)
     
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  25. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'm really interested how that equals three starters BTW. The only starter from a previous regime was Carey. That should make four. Unless I am mistaken.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Mandoucheo is counting resigning Carrey as a "move" so it he should count has a starter for last year.
     
  27. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Well then that is five....
     
  28. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    If as many say here that Philbin wants more athletic Olineman then whoever thinks Carey will be resigned is going to be sadly disappointed. Carey and athletic are about as far apart as the Grand Canyon is wide.
     
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  29. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    This is a rational response?

    How about, of the 53 OL drafted and picked up via FA, getting 5 legit starters? Even 4?

    The fact that he hasn't - forget what any other team has done - it's an extremely poor record. Period.
     
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  30. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Did you read the post that showed something like 42 of those were bottom of the roster camp fodder?
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Indeed.

    And, the Carey contract from Ireland (the highest for a RT in the NFL at the time) was absurdly overpaying him. He's never been strong and got burned multiple times in pass pro. The Carey V Wolfork decision will long be a serious mistake by the Dolphin management (Wanny).
     
  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I just actually READ the article and for Armando Salguero to call himself an objective sports writer is laughable. He sounds like some in here, beating their fists bloody for a quarterback and ridiculing the possibility Joe Philbin/Jeff Ireland might draft a lineman in the first round.

    I've said this before. I'll say it again and I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face (or until I get just aggrevated enough and just start ignoring everyone in general), but you bring in Joe Philbin as your new head coach. He brings in a completely different offensive scheme than this team has played. In order for him to implement the scheme you hired him for, he needs to the tools and parts to make that scheme work.

    Would you put all season tires on your truck to go off roading? Would you put big ole mud tires on your Mustang to drag the quarter mile or race NASCAR?

    Of course you wouldn't and yet, Joe Philbin needs to re-tool this offensive unit. Sure there are some parts...some tools he can keep from the previous regime and use, but in order to get HIS product, not Tony Sparano's, not Bill Parcells'...HIS product, he's going to have to re-tool.

    Someone like Armando Salguero is already showing his disdain at the possiblity of Miami drafting a lineman.

    I'm sorry, are you going to hold Joe Philbin accountable for Tony Sparano's/Bill Parcells' transgressions if you will? Are you going to tell Joe Philbin he should just deal with the offensive linemen he already has? If that's the case, why in the the hell did you bring Philbin on board in the first place?

    On this year's draft, I'm going to be be perfectly blunt...
    -If we draft a quarterback, then we draft a quarterback. I'll be staisfied Philbin is comfortable with our offensive line
    -If we draft an offensive lineman, then we draft an offensive lineman. I'll be satisfied Philbin is either comfortable with our quarterback situation or isn't wanting to reach for something that's not there.

    And seeing how Philbin is having to come in and fix this mess that Parcell's initiated and then just jumped ship (and yes I say Philbin because no rational person is going to convince me Ireland isn't going to get Philbin what he wants) everyone here needs to settle down, relax and have some faith in "Dr Phil". Otherwise we might as well have just kept Sparano as head coach.
     
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  33. Dolfan330

    Dolfan330 My wein is so chaffed...

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    what was the black-white ratio, that's the important question.
     
  34. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Why can't we "attaboy" someone more than once? Great Jumpin' Jehoshaphat! A post that evaluates the situation in a calm fashion and makes sense in it's conclusions. What a novel idea!
     
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  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Now hold up here, as I read the article, here is what jumped out at me:

    "...Bill Parcells drafted John Jerry, he thought he could draft Jimmy Graham in the 4th rd.."

    Now, one can feel however they wish about Jeff Ireland, however this is becoming a pattern, Parcells was disengaging from the team in 2010, and we skipped 1..2..3.. tight ends that yr all who made impacts quickly, if Ireland was in the draft room and was unable to select a Te because of Parcells then what exactly has he been doing in Davie?

    Warming a seat?

    Draft 2012 rolls around and *gosh* more offensive linemen, Mando is quite correct about the slap stick approach to adding offensive linemen at all costs, since Day 1, and to be blunt Peterson did the same thing in KC which causes me to doubt that "oh, bad decisions..those were on Parcells" stuff coming from Ireland.

    Past is the past, however we see the same thing happen in Draft 2012 can we at least then surmise that it has been Ireland all along and stop waving a nebulus hand at the presence of Parcells?
     
  36. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I just don't understand the outrage over the article. The fact is Miami has spent a fair amount of picks and free agent activity on the offensive line in the past 4 years. Often at the expense of upgrading other critical positions such as safety, tight end, and of course QB. When at the end of 4 years the offensive line is still unsettled, that's an issue. "Safe" picks like offensive and defensive line in the first round over the past 4 years that have not delivered any noticeable impact are killing this team. For all of you who keep harping on how "risky" drafting a QB is, isn't it also a risk when players like Jared Odrick do nothing to upgrade the team and you ignore clear needs at the crucial positions I mentioned? The Parcells/Ireland draft philosophy has not worked. If the philosophy continues in 2012 there is reason to be concerned. But fans here just don't want to hear it. Maybe another 6-10 season will change your minds.
     
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  37. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    People siding with a wannabe journalist is funny. All he does is stir up trouble. hahahaha
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I seem to remember several posters on this board siding with said "wannabe journalists" when he defended Jeff Ireland in a couple of pieces last month.
     
  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Key word here Monster...past

    Joe Philbin was not our past head coach.

    I have a pretty simple question for everyone...

    Does everyone want what Joe Philbin wants....or does everyone want what they individually want?

    Seeing how Green Bay's offense has been pretty PROLIFIC the past 4 or so years, I think Philbin (and Sherman) have a pretty good idea what they need to do the same thing in Miami, but if everyone wants to do their impression of South Park and "Rabble, Rabble Rabble", you all go right ahead.

    I'm sticking by Philbin and give him everything he wants, everything he needs!!
     
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  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Joe Philbin is not the GM. Jeff Ireland made it very clear during the introductory press conference that it's his job to find players. Joe Philbin's job is to coach. It's this organizational structure that made Jeff Fisher choose the Rams over the Dolphins. Joe Philbin has very limited at most say in personnel moves. Jeff Ireland is going to draft the players he wants, and Joe Philbin will be stuck with them.

    We know Joe Philbin knows QB is critical to success in today's NFL based on his comments. But does Jeff Ireland share that philosophy? Time will tell.
     
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