Based on the probably useless first roster and camp reports, here are the guys on my cut-watchlist today (this will change as we go through Pre-season) BJ Cunningham Chris Hogan Rishard Matthews Pat Devlin John Jerry Ryan Cook Clyde Gates Chandler Burden Will Barker Ray Feinga Jerome Messam Ryan Mahaffy Jarrell Root Isaako Aaitui Jonathan Freeny Trenton Hughes Marcus Brown Kevyn Scott Vincent Agnew Kelcie McCray Tyrell Johnson Anderson Russell Shelly Lyons Cameron Collins Those are the guys who seem to be heading for cutsville if something doesn't change. How do you feel about that list? Anyone you'd like to keep? Anyone else you think ought a be on the list?
That's 24 guys btw. First roster has 90 guys on it, it seemed (I must be missing something. Thought there were more than 90 allowed) If my entire watchlist gets cut we'd be down to 66 guys... Still 13 over the 53 man roster limit.
To be fair, Jeff Fuller is as much on the path to cutsville as Clyde Gates. Should keep in mind that when reading and interpreting that depth chart, the guys that are listed one on top of the other at the same position (e.g. Legedu Naanee and Davone Bess at X receiver) are tied. Hence, Jeff Fuller and Clyde Gates are tied at third string X receiver.
Btw, I suspect Moore will a tally be traded, allowing us to keep Devlin but for now, Devlin is at risk.
True. Good point. I feel that reports about Gates have not been encouraging, and he has had a couple years to 'get it' and progress. The staff may lean away from a guy who is not progressing, and also was on the sideline dinged up for a practice, no? Gates value is further reduced as Thigpen and Miller work at KR. Fuller has history with Sherman and the offense, size, and a good showing in camp. My only question with Fuller is whether he can play coverage units on STs well. If so, he may steal Pruitt's spot.
Agree with this if Garrard wins starters job. Look for it to happen after cut to 65 and before week 8 Zona seems a good spot cause they sure need a guy. m2c
The biggest problem to me right now is he can't stay healthy. He needs opportunities to show what he can do on a football field because that speed and athletic ability in the hands of the right quarterback can be deadly.
In that case, the sooner the QB competition is settled the better for Gates. He strikes my as the type that isn't a very technical route runner. Technique guys are so consistent they plug and play well with a carousel of QBs but Gates isn't that guy. He needs one QB to emerge and get a feel for each other... Or I think he, and his speed, leave Miami.
Even if they do trade Moore, they could very well just go with 2 QB's and open the roster spot for someone else. I think Devlin still has a year of eligibility left on the P.S., so they could try to sneak him on there unless he's so impressive in pre-season that someone's willing to put him on their roster.
Allowing us to keep Devlin?? Well thank Buddha for that. Honestly, if Moore gets cut or traded, IMO, we'll carry 2 QBs on the 53 man roster and one on the PS, which Devlin is eligible for again. There is no reason to cut Moore to create a roster spot for Devlin.
Maybe we should start the Believe in Clyde Gates #BICG movement in honor of his Believe in Miami #BIM movement he started this offseason.
I like the kid but I think it’s going to be hard for him to beat out Wallace or Pruitt on speed alone. A tenth of a second separates their best 40 times and I'd be surprised if he could beat either one of them in the 100, even though they're both carrying an extra 20+ pounds.
Couple training camps / offseasons. Sorry. Also, I just did a post on Marlon Moore and had his two years in my head. Lol. Still, I'm not confident Gates will progress.
Oh he'll no I didn't mean move Moore to keep Devlin! If we entirely lost Devlin I wouldn't bat an eye. But practice squad would be perfect.
I think there's a difference between 4.4 speed and 4.3 speed and Clyde Gates has the latter, true 4.30 speed...a rarity. And he's not as allergic to physicality as people want to say. I'm just watching that 42 yard catch he had in the preseason of 2011. He's going up against former Utah State corner Chris Randle in man, who is playing tight. This is not a totally unathletic guy. He ran a 4.52 at his pro day but had 37 inch vertical and 10'7" broad jump. Clyde blows by him on a 9 route so fast he sucks the decal off his helmet. It wasn't a matter of Randle biting on flat or falling for a head fake. His biggest technique mistake in my eyes was not getting a jam. He opened his hips up right away, but Clyde just blew by him with both men at full speed. Was it any coincidence that a few plays later on 3rd & 12, Gates ran another vertical and the safety was so scared of him that he vacated the hash mark right after the snap to cheat over top of Gates, leaving Jeron Mastrud WIDE open for a touchdown pass? No. Not a coincidence at all. It was a straight up double team, the kind you saw on Brandon Marshall. That's what Clyde can bring to the table. In a way, he's the only guy in the receivers unit that can scare an opposing defense in that manner...because it's not about some great skill that Clyde has, it's about whether Miami manages to isolate a personnel/scheme matchup and whether the quarterback can throw it. That's scary for a defense. How do you think Ted Ginn ever had production? It wasn't because he was good, I'll tell you that much. It was purely because he's fast. They had to give him a lot of cushion and then of course you've got all these easy underneath passes you can throw to him because the threat of the 9 route is so dangerous. Clyde Gates' biggest problem right now is Brian Hartline's biggest problem...he's got to get healthy and start throwing some punches of his own. I thought I read in a Barry Jackson piece where some coaches were specifically refuting the idea that Gates had disappeared or wasn't doing well. They said that before he got banged up again he was flying out there and doing real well. Ultimately this is a guy that everyone should be hoping does well, makes the team, and gets on the field. He has game breaking ability.
Great points. So how would you assess when it's time to give up on him when there is that much potential benefit? Because there is also the risk of hanging on to him too long and nothing coming of it (and cutting another player who may have developed). What criteria or timeline would you recommend, if you were in the Dolphins' coaches meetings this training camp?
Similar to that Cowboys game, you have in the 2nd quarter of the 2nd preseason game that year Clyde Gates on the outside against R.J. Stanford of Carolina, who runs a 4.42 by the way, takes an inside release and whips him just as bad as he did the 4.52 guy. Kendric Burney tried to come over for the help but he didn't stand a chance, because he's a 4.6 to 4.7 guy. Henne somehow overthrew Gates by 5 yards...which is quite normal for Chad Henne. A few plays later on 3rd & 10 you have Gates running to the same side against the same corner...is it any wonder that you now find safety Jordan Pugh (who runs a 4.46 by the way) about 25 yards down the field keeping an eye on Clyde Gates on the go route, instead of helping on the underneath coverage on Davone Bess, who is matched up one on one with Kendric Burney? Or what about how Hartline was able to line up in the slot on the same side as Gates, and get matched up in man coverage with linebacker Omar Gaither on a 10 yard route that would have gained the first down yardage? Gates took two defenders out of the picture and let both Bess and Hartline come free underneath him, and he didn't do it because he's "good"...he did it because he's god damn fast.
The fact that he's still tied with Jeff Fuller for the 6th WR spot even though he's been hurt and hasn't participated much in camp to me is telling. They want him to make the team. They know what the speed does to defenses. I know it must have looked discouraging to see Gates that low on the depth chart but actually I kind of took it as a sign they want him to make the team.
Problem is, Gates knows it and I doubt he's trying his hardest to improve as a technician. I constantly hear about CJ, Naanee and Bush working extra reps with QBs before and after practice. You hear people say CJ is amazingly eager to learn, to improve techniques, etc. I've never heard that once about Gates. The sense I get is, he knows his speed is enough to get him a roster spot. Maybe that just pisses me off if it's true because guys like him could be great if they worked hard at getting polished. But if it is purely a health issue, I don't know what to say. Do we carry a guy who rarely contributes? For how long?
Wow I didn't get that at all. I agree they want him to show up more, and better... But I didn't take the depth chart as a way of helping him with that. I think they are getting to where they need to decide whether it's worth keeping this guy if he isn't contributing, despite the potential. Now I just want to see him in these preseason games and watch his effect on coverage and underneath receivers when he's in the game.
It's imperative that Gates get back to health and get working with the QBs. He needs chemistry if he's going to be dangerous. So many plays were left out on the field because quarterbacks didn't have a feel for how and when to use him, when to trust him, etc. It didn't help he struggled with some more savvy stuff like back shoulder or scramble drills. But again, that's a chemistry thing. If you've got a strong enough arm and he's got tight coverage you can pretty much just throw it up and if you place it right, he has a great shot at the ball. He's always got a great shot at the ball because the coverages is usually either too loose or too tight. That's the problem that speed presents to a defense...the coverage is either too loose, too tight, or too much. You end up having to walk a fine line to get it right. He was a notably different player on the coaches tape in Week 17 as opposed to Week 1. I'm inclined to agree with the coach that spoke to Barry Jackson and said Gates was having a good camp before he got banged up again. He needs to get healthy. The speed is really dangerous.
So if he were high on the depth chart, like 2nd string, that would be a sign they don't want him to make it?
Is there a guy like Gates in the Packer offense? With his speed? I realize Philbin will run his own style of offense and speed is speed. My impression of Philbin is that he is writing a new book and any previous chapters have minimum influence. He didn't have part in Gates being here and doesn't have to be committed to him. However, if Gates can start acting like a receiver and catch the football on a consistent basis he will be fine.
No, he was low on the depth chart but not nearly as low as some would expect based on his combination of absence and not making a lot of big catches in practice. The fact that he's kind of tied with Jeff Fuller for the 6th spot despite all that is a sign that they want him to make it and if he gets healthy and starts running nice routes again, they'll move him back up.
Gates is right within the size constraints that the Packers have leaned toward over the years, and they've had several really fast guys that they've cycled in and out. *The same year Philbin came to the Packers, they drafted 6000 and 173 lbs 4.43 speedster Carl Ford out of little ole Toledo. *That same year they also drafted 5114 and 190 lbs 4.42 speedster DeAndrew Rubin out of South Florida. *In 2005 they drafted Craig Bragg out of UCLA, measuring 6005 and 196 lbs with a 4.46 at the Combine. *That same year they also drafted Terrence Murphy out of Texas A&M, measuring 6007 and 202 lbs, after having busted out a 4.39 at the Combine. *They took Boston College's Will Blackmon who was 6002 and 198 lbs, "only" ran a 4.47 but with incredible 41 inch vertical and 11'1" broad jump, not unlike our own Clyde Gates. Also not unlike our own Clyde Gates, Blackmon was very much a project as he'd established himself as a corner most of his college career and only moved to receiver very late in it. *They took Greg Jennings from little old Western Michigan, after he measured 5111 and 197 lbs and ran a 4.42 at the Combine. *They took David Clowney from Virginia Tech, after he measured 6002 and 188 lbs and ran a blazing 4.36 at the Combine. *Just recently they took Randall Cobb, the 5102 and 191 lbs 4.46 speedster who had made a position switch during his time at Kentucky from QB to WR and was more of an athlete than a polished wide receiver. *For the record Clyde Gates came out 5116 and 192 lbs, ran a 4.31 at the Combine with a 40 inch vertical, 11'2" broad jump, and 16 bench reps. He fits squarely into the group of eight guys that I outlined above. *The players that don't fit this mold are Cory Rodgers of TCU, James Jones of San Jose State, Brett Swain of San Diego State and Jordy Nelson of Kansas State. But that's only four guys, whereas Gates-like speedster athlete projects constituted two-thirds of the drafted pool of receivers.
John Jerry will be a draft pick that forever sticks in my craw as Jimmy Graham is scoring 10 plus TD's every year for the enxt 10 years. I still get physically ill discussing that pick and Parcell's "response" two years later made it even worse.
That they liked Graham but thought he was more a 4th round value, so they decided to wait. So, two mistakes. First, not having graham valued properly, even though they liked him, and second, having Jerry graded as high 3rd round pick, which was obviously a huge error. I could ask if Ireland deserves any blame for yet another mistake, but I'll remain an optimist for now, lol
They might not have had Jerry graded higher...they might have just considered him a need. The Dolphins pick for need.
Either way, bad move. And if Vontae is truly being beaten out by Marshall we may have to ding the old/sorta new regime for another one biting the dust. I think Vontae has been pretty good during his time here, but I loved Nicks at that pick. Anyway, I'm trying to remain positive as it appears Jeff Ireland would have to ritually sacrifice a goat on Steven Ross's desk to get canned.
The local radio station says T Owens ran a 4.45 at the Seahawks and s now a Seahawk. I can't hardly believe that speed for him. He is a physyical steal if he can just shut up. I keep hope up that Gates will turn out to be our Wallace from Pitts then I think hell Pitts didn't have to wait for Wallace which makes me wonder how good is Gates ever going to be.
Well then that would be even more idiotic considering G wasn't a bigger need than TE at that time. In fact you can argue guard wasn't a need at all when you consider the handful of pretty good interior lineman we had on the team and the on field success they had in 09. honestly that entire 2010 draft was terrible, I hated every pick except for Rashad Jones and even he needs a lot of work.
You could also argue that the TE did nothing in college and at the time wasn't worth a 4th round pick. That the Saints only took a chance because it was an extra pick given to them.
Very well could argue that. Not me, though. I argued he could be worth as much as a 2nd round pick. But then, I argued Clyde Gates could be worth as much as a 2nd round pick, too. But then, I also argued Denarius Moore and Randall Cobb could be worth that...so now I'm confused.
