what are you taking about? Lol your post is all kinds of wrong, Graham was taken in the 3rd after we passed on him for a straight bum that shouldnt even be on the team right now, and the Saints only had one pick in the 3rd round. its just another in the long list of boneheaded Ireland moves that have led to Miami being viewed as one of the laughingstocks of the league
I don't see how people can scream up and down about how stupid taking John Jerry over Jimmy Graham was. We didn't massively reach for Jerry over a clearly superior prospect, and acting as if Jimmy Graham was clearly some sort of clear star in the making is at best a little deluded. They picked one prospect over another similarly ranked prospect, and it didn't work out. Treating it as indicative as something other than what pretty frequently happens in a draft is ridiculous.
I don't agree w/ this line of thinking at all. The only way Jimmy Graham is putting up those numbers here is if we had brought Brees, Colston, Meachem, Moore and Sproles with him. Same goes for Gronkowski. Those are passing teams with elite QBs. We were a running team looking to win win with a ground attack & solid defense. Ireland drafted accordingly.
So a running team can't use a dynamic TE? It was a mistake. Sure, they happen, and it wouldn't matter as much if Jerry didn't suck but that isn't the case.
Well, considering we had one under contract in David Martin before Parcells got here, and then Bill didn't seem to prioritize finding his replacement after '08, yeah that sounds about right. Parcells obviously cares more about a mammoth guard than he does a receiving TE who's a liability as a blocker. Apparently, Ireland feels differently considering he's drafted 2 developmental, pass-catching, blocking-deficient TEs/Hbacks during the past 2 drafts with Parcells no longer around. Side note: No disrespect, but I think you might not understand what "dynamic" means. A developmental, receiving-only, college TE is not dynamic; he's one dimensional, and when has Parcells ever seemed to be about one-dimensional TEs, let alone in the 3rd round?
In the case of football players, it seems to me that when they are referred to as dynamic it is because of a singular skill. for example, "dynamic pass rusher", "dynamic shut down corner" "dynamic pass catcher". But anyway, I guess Ireland is off the hook for this decision as well. What a country!
The rather dramatic change in approach to the draft since there has been no doubt Ireland has final say so, compared to when we weren't really sure if it was he or Parcells making the final call, indicates to me, it was Parcells doing so all the way through the 2010 draft. Ireland drafting Egnew in the 3rd tells me he'd have also taken Graham in the 3rd if he'd final say so in 2010. Throw in his taking Clay, a TE/FB/H-Back, who catches and runs far better than he blocks, is another sign of how Ireland is not Parcells Part Deux when it comes to the draft.
Completely agree with it all. ..... and throw in taking a QB who wasn't a 3 or 4 year starter; a developmental speed WR in Gates; a tackle who isn't a mauler (Martin); a speedy back in Miller; a DE who's shorter than 6'4 (Vernon); and signing a slew of speedy, undersized backs, receivers, and TEs in FA (including rookie FAs). There's so much news-related info on the web about how much Parcells' fingers were in the organization and how much control, say-so, and input he had while Ireland was being mentored that I don't understand how fans speak of the '08-'10 team as if it were solely Ireland's. It baffles me how quickly the media & fans forget that it was Parcells, not Ireland, who was hired as the czar to turn the organization around, that it was Parcells who initially hired the terrible coaching staff, that it was Parcells who set forth the team's initial blue print, that it was Parcells who ran the draft and spent countless hours scouting & assessing players, and that it was Parcells who stayed on in an advisory role throughout the '10 offseason (mainly because of his role in the draft & player scouting/assessment). That doesn't mean Ireland couldn't have made any mistakes of his own during his GM-mentoring stage, but it seems all too often that Parcells was completely absolved of his role here.
Well I don't want to speak for schmolioot and others, but many of us certainly never said 08-10 were solely Ireland. All we're saying is that he was the GM, and it's only logical to believe that it wasn't solely Parcell's either. To absolve Ireland of any responsibility for the bad decisions made during that time is ludicrous being that he was the GM of the Miami Dolphins.
Well then I guess my post isn't directed at those "many of you" then is it. {Hence I'm not sure why you're treating it as if with a guilty conscious} This random, generalized statement has nothing to do with my post; however, what is ludicrous is fans who use every mistake as a means to cast blame on Ireland. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, b/c it does, and it happens far more often than fans who absolve Ireland of each and every one of the organization's bad decision. I haven't seen a single person absolve Ireland of all bad decisions; I only see fans who objectively refuse to lay blame when there's no clear cut evidence allowing such. What IS logical in ANY business setting is the person IN CHARGE receives the brunt of the blame, not the person working under him, his protege, for poor & costly organizational decisions. PS: Can you factually demonstrate that Ireland would've taken John Jerry if Parcells wasn't still influencing the organization during the 2010 draft? If no actual facts are present, what deductive reasoning would you employ to say Ireland would've likely made the pick (or other picks that we grew to loathe) regardless?
I definitely agree with the bolded. The over the top Ireland bashers are ridiculous. The over the top Ireland apologists are ridiculous as well. The fact is: A lot of bad decisions were made since 2008, which is why we've had 3 losing seasons in a row. Parcells was a flop, no question. His outdated philosophies and stubbornness has had a negative effect on this franchise. He's reason #1 why we are where we are. Jeff Ireland was the GM. And maybe all those bad decisions were Parcell's call. But I'd say that's a poor assumption to make. If you want to make a case that Sparano was the second biggest reason for recent failures, then that's fine. But it's not fair to blame only Sparano and Parcells and not Ireland as he's been part of the problem. Not saying you did this, but there are the Ireland "apologists" who have done this.
I don't see many extreme apologists (perhaps they exist but I haven't seen them), but I do see far too many over the top bashers. Personally, I'm not an apologist. All I personally do is stand up for a person against unjust criticism that's absent the pertinent facts. I treat it like court; if there's no proof then I simply can't blindly blame a person, but I can hold the person in charge accountable for the majority of poor choices. In this case, the default blamee is Parcells, just as from '11 and on it's Ireland through and through. Completely agree with all this. That's the stance I take regarding Ireland. I'm sure there are things he's at fault for just as I'm sure there are good things that Parcells did that Ireland might not have, but since I wasn't a fly on the wall when every blunder transpired, I won't make uneducated stabs in the dark about them. Instead, the only fair and logical choice [in my eyes] is to give him a pass during this mentoring stage and begin judging him on stuff we wholeheartedly know he's accountable for, 2011-present. If there are Ireland apologists who've done this, then I'd speak up against it b/c that's kinda ridiculous. I'd like to be able to blame Ireland for his mistakes, but I simply don't know which those were, and I refuse to simply guess what those might've been.
So.... about those players we want to watch for.... who do you think the evil Jeff Ireland, or angelic Jeff Ireland, depending on the faction speaking, is hoping to poach from other teams, if anyone? (let's try to steer this back away from Fireland)
Not saying we couldn't have used Graham. My point was that given the make up of the team and the Parcells blueprint as a whole, it made sense to take Jerry in the 3rd round.
ALL GMs make mistakes, the idea is to hit more than you miss. IMO if you look at the roster today, it's in pretty good shape. Lots of talent, young talent, very few 30+ players. We have a strong nucleus to build around for the next several years and if Tanneyhill can become a decent QB then we have a good shot at serious contention. So regardless of the mistakes and who made them, the team is pretty good shape moving forward.
