I'm not making excuses. DJ said we outplayed four teams and still lost. We cannot outplay them if we have no talent. Regardless, I argue for people to withhold judgement, until we get some more data. Ireland is in year two. Philbin is in year one. You argue that we are horrible and we haven't even played the season yet. Your argument? Ireland sucks because when he had to follow Parcells blueprint our team went nowhere. Its great you ignore everything logical and go right to hate. I'm glad it comforts you. The problem is, many of the rest of us prefer more real actual info before making a drastic conclusion.
What exactly has this team done to convince you that Ireland is , "pretty damn good ", in his job as GM. As far as your assertion that I don't care who replaces him, that is a lie. At least I have posted previously the names of individuals I would like to see Ross interview for the GM position. Every name I have previously listed are with organizations which have a history of selecting quality talent for the NFL, and these individuals also work directly with the present GM of their teams in player personnel decisions. I don't hate Ireland. I just don't think he is qualified to be a GM in the NFL. If you don't think he is on the hot seat and the Dolphins must having a winning season this season for him to keep his job, you obviously haven't heard what Ross's expectations for this team is this year. He expects the team to have a winning record, and make the playoffs. I don't think he will have much interest in keeping Ireland around if the Dolphins once against finish below 500, for the fourth straight season, and attendance at the stadium continues to decline.
Again, I don't hate anyone. My judgement of Ireland is entirely based on what I have seen from this team since he arrived here five years ago. I just haven't seen this team headed in the right direction since they went 11-5 in 2008. It has all been downhill since then, as far as I am concerned. Parcells shared some of the fault, as well as Sparano. They are no longer here and the only person left from that regime is Ireland. I am always open to Ireland being able to change my mind. I am merely expressing my opinion based on what I have observed since Ireland came here as the GM after the 2007 season. In fact a few years ago, I went on the Heat forum and questioned if Pat Riley should still be running the Heat organization, when they were one of the worst teams in the NBA. I will certainly admit that I was wrong in making that judgement concerning Riley. Of course Riley has a long history of success in the NBA and the owner of the Heat had a track record to believe in when it came to sticking with Riley. Ireland had no track record of success as a GM prior to coming to the Dolphins. He was hired by Parcells, a man many now blame for the decline of the Dolphins over the last three years. I have said all along that if the Dolphins have a winning season and they make the playoffs, I will be happy to come on this forum and admit I was wrong about Ireland. If on the other hand, the Dolphins once again finish below 500 and end up with a pick in the top ten picks in 2013. I would prefer that a more qualified GM make that pick and not Jeff Ireland.
I still have to feel Ireland hasn't had sufficient time without Parcells looking over his shoulder, to determine his talent level or judge Ireland yet. Just as we tend to give rookie WR's 2-3 years in general to fully reach their potential, I think Ireland should get at least 1 more draft before being tossed aside. This year's draft seems pretty OK to me, though we really won't know how good/bad this draft was for at least another season.
What I find interesting is that many people look at the Dolphins going 6-3 over their last nine games and conclude that the problem with the 0-7 start was Sparano. They fail to mention that the Dolphins went 4-2 in Sparano's last six games as the Dolphins HC. It somehow seems to escape their comprehension that Sparano was also the HC when the Dolphins won the majority of their games last season. If these fans are quick to blame Sparano for all the losing early in the season. Perhaps they should give him all the credit for the Dolphins going 4-2 over his last six games as the Dolphins HC. I personally don't think that Sparano was a very good NFL HC, but I see the problem more as a lack of overall talent on the roster than I see it as a coaching problem. Ireland is responsible for the talent on the team. That is why I hold him responsible for the mediocre team the Dolphins have been over the last three years.
Then why did you question Pat Riley based on one season--after winning the franchise's first championship, no less? It sounds to me like you're admitting to knee jerking based on the latest results rather than evaluating body of work.
Surely you can understand that repeating the same sentiment over and over and over, regardless of any evidence or argument, comes across as a bit stronger than merely not thinking someone is capable of a job. GM's aren't entirely defined by winning records....especially when they didn't pick their coach. Ireland picked Philbin, Parcells picked Sparano. We saw what a team looks like in Parcells image in Dallas and up to the season before last. I see a vastly different team now, headed in the right direction with a new coaching staff and the closest thing we've had to a potential elite QB since Marino. Ireland didn't have a track record as a GM, but was considered one of the best evaluators of talent in the league by many people. The duties that separate talent evaluation and GM he's proven to be competent at (fiances, trades, deals, etc.) Now, having said all that, at this point, last draft is looking a little shaky, but there's only been one full season for these guys and now they are in a new offense/defense so we'll see.
It's actually not a "fact". It's merely your opinion, and for you to think your opinion carries so much more weight to the point of labeling someone else's as "excuse making" seems insulting and arrogant. I'm, too, am of the opinion this team has talent, and I base that on the fact we won 6 of our last 9 games while fielding one of the top defenses in the league during that period, and like DJphinfan wisely pointed out [and you conveniently ignored], we lost 4 games in the 4th quarter, which falls on COACHING, not the talent. If great coaching were present from day 1, we could've easily been a 9-7 team by winning 3 of those 4 games considering the talent on the field was outplaying our opponents well enough to win. So the only fact that exists is the fact that we are NOT one of the least talented teams in the NFL. And Sparano wasn't the only coach on the team the past 4 years btw. Side question: were you not the one saying Tannehill would essentially be a bust and wasn't a 1st round QB?
I think your view is probably in the majority on this forum, while it may be the minority view in Dolphin nation. I just get a kick at all those who give credit to Ireland for the draft choices and free agent signings which worked out over the last five years, while blaming Parcells for all those draft choices and free agent signings which didn't work out while he was here. I guess I view Ireland negatively, since I think he had a lot more input with the draft and in free agency when Parcells was here, than a lot of other people on this forum do. I have said all along that if the Dolphins have a winning season this year, Ireland will deserve the credit and he should remain the teams GM. If they once again fail to finish above 500, I just don't see valid argument for Ross retaining him as the GM of this organization.
Again, I don't see how you can 0-7 and then 6-3 and think that isn't a coaching problem. Did we magically get enough talent out of the blue to win 6 after losing 7 straight? Seriously, what's more likely: - Sparano lost the team and was a poor coach OR - In between game 7 and 8 we magically became more talented.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. We just disagree regarding the talent level of this team. As far as Tannehill goes, yes I did think Tannehill would be a bust and I didn't think he should be a first round draft pick. Just because he is the starter at this point really doesn't prove he will turn out to be a quality starter long term. All it proves is that his main competiotion for the job, Garrard, was injured and therefore he was not part of the competition. Moore is not a fit for this type of offense and Devlin is nothing but a possible emergency QB on this roster. I have been wrong in my assessment of players and coaches many times. While I still have my doubts about Tannehill, as a long time Dolphin fan, I certainly hope I end up being completely wrong about his future as the starting QB for the Dolphins. I would much rather be wrong in my judgement of him than to be right. Because that would mean the Dolphins haven't resolved their QB issue and they will need to use another first round pick in the near future on the QB position. You are correct, I should not have used the term, "fact", when expressing my opinion regarding the talent level on this team. I apologize for seeming arrogant, because that is not how I want to come off. Just like everyone else on here, I am merely expressing my point of view, in regards to what I observe when I look at this Dolphin organization. I realize that my views are not shared by many on this forum, but that is what these type of forums are all about to begin with. When I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it. Hopefully the Dolphins and Ireland will prove me completely wrong this season.
Maybe having a starting QB by the name of Henne had a lot to do with that 0-7 start. Also many of the Dolphin starters came into camp last year completely out of shape after the player lock out by the owners. Fortunately we will all see starting in a few weeks if the Dolphins are talented or not under this new coaching staff. I certainly hope that when the season is over, I am on this forum telling you that you were right about this team and I was completely wrong. I just have one question for you. If the Dolphins finish the season with 6 wins or less and finish in last place in the AFC East, do you still think Ireland should be retained as the teams GM? I have stated several times that if the Dolphins having a winning record this season, Ireland should remain. I just wonder how much blame you would place on Ireland if the Dolphins once again finish below 500 in 2012.
Sorry but I don't see that argument holding water. It seems like a hail mary attempt, no offense. Your "Sparano deserves the credit for going 4-2" theory fails in multiple ways: 1. You can't simply remove 7 straight losses in order to skew the argument. 2. Prior to the 4-2 stretch, Sparano lost 2 straight games despite having a combined 22 point lead in the 4th qtr. (That's on Sparano) 3. All 4 of those wins were in dominating fashion with a combined score of 120 to 34. Anyone watching but yourself could see that we outplayed our opponents from a talent standpoint. 4. 1 of the 2 losses came via a blown 6 point 4th quarter lead vs Dallas. (that's on coaching, not talent) 5. With Sparano we got our butts handed to us by NY & NE; Without Sparano we beat NY and played NE to 3 points. 6. With Sparano, the team showed up not ready to play during the first 5 games, and it was obvious to anyone watching. So that skewed 4-2 run you speak so highly of toward Sparano was more like 4-4 if you consider the 2 blown wins prior to the 4-2 run. With better coaching, that 4-4 stretch should've been 6-2 or 7-1 b/c a great coach wouldn't have blown 28 points worth of 4 quarter leads.
I think your taking those defenses the wrong way. The defense that so and so is worse is not to say its OK that Ireland sucks because there is worse. Its to say, look at all the GMs in this league. Look at ALL the drafts. ALL the free agent signings. ALL the coaching hires. ALL the QBs drafted. ALL the OL drafted. This is a tough ****ing job with a lot of misses, from ALL the General Mangers. Ireland clearly has not proven he is one of the better GMs yet, if he ever does, but people arguing against him act like all his mistakes he has made isn't the same mistakes every GM makes, because projection is an extremely tough thing to do.
IMO the GM picks the kind of players the coaches says he wants to build the team around. Sprano wanted a QB who could run the wildcat. Big, slow, powerful OL and big RBs. So Ireland went out and got those kind of people. I don't think those kind of people were good fits in today's NFL. Now that Ireland has picked his own coach (who I hope shares a similiar thread with him), I think he can draft the players he really wants to draft with the right coach using them the right way.
Hey, it's a tough business. However, there ARE GM's in this league who do have success. There are GM's and front offices who can in fact evalute talent. CK had a good post about the embarrassment of riches and depth the Eagles have. I'll ask this: How many playmakers are on this team? How many impact players? When you have to make a ton of excuses for someone, and start blaming the coaching, etc., the writing is on the wall.
Actually the Heat started their immediate decline the year after winning their championship. It wasn't until they signed James that the team started playing quality basketball again. So it wasn't just a one year decline and a knee jerk response on my part. It was an observation of what was going on with the Heat from 2007 through 2010. They just weren't a very good team during these years and the players Riley selected in the draft during those years just weren't very good. Fortunately Wade decided to stay when he was a free agent and Riley was able to convince James, and Bosh to take less money to come to the Heat. I certainly credit Riley for being able to bring these players to the Heat and in hindsight, him staying was certainly the best thing for the Heat organization. Riley had a track record of success in the NBA and while I may have overreacted to the decline in play of the Heat after winning their championship, the owner was smart to keep him and I fully understand that. Ireland on the other hand has not had any level of real success as an NFL GM and he certainly hasn't earned the goodwill of the fans and the ownership which which Riley obviously deserved. I admit I was wrong about Riley and he proved me wrong. I welcome seeing Ireland also prove me wrong.
Yes, as I intimated, the Heat had one bad season the year after they won the title. Then they made the playoffs two consecutive years prior to the 2010 sign-and-trades for LeBron and Bosh. So yes, you did knee jerk based on one year, unless you think that making the playoffs while clearing cap space is basis for being fired. The fact that you knee jerked based on one year immediately after winning a title calls into question your other criticisms of Ireland. I'm one of Ireland's biggest detractors on this board, but there's such a thing as a solid factual basis. Saying that you called Pat Riley's GM abilities into question a year after winning a title tells me a lot about how and why you formulate your opinion of Ireland's abilities.
You listed two reasons that weren't Ireland. - Henne was the prototype Parcells college QB. Prototype. - Coming into camp out of shape is a coaching problem not a talent one. Like every year, I'll have to see the level of talent on the team. We are breaking in new offensive and defensive systems this year. Not an excuse, but a fact. So far, I love the draft and if those guys continue to grow I give him another season. If Tannehill proves he's elite, he gets another season regardless.
The 29-19 Eagles over the last 3 seasons, yes. The Eagles who caught fire and beat some good teams down the stretch after a horrible start. The Eagles who I guarantee no one wanted to face if they'd snuck into the playoffs last year.
The Dolphins didn't even come up with the Wildcat offense until after the season had started in 2008. It was only after the offense had been ineffective at the beginning of the regular season. The reality is that Chad Pennington nor Chad Henne ran the Wildcat offense. The QB in the Wildcat was a RB. So how you can say that Sparano wanted a QB who could run the Wildcat offense goes directly against what actually took place when the Dolphin sent in their Wildcat offense. The only QB drafted or signed during the Sparano years who might have been utilized in the Wildcat offense was Pat White, and we all know how that turned out.
Yeah, the team to strive to be like is the Eagles. Especially of the last few years. I know its better than Miami the last 3 years, but so were the Jets....should we emulate them too?
Yet that embarrassment of riches and depth had them not making the playoffs last year. 2009 1 Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri 2 53 LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh 5 153 Cornelius Ingram TE Florida 5 157 Macho Harris DB Virginia Tech 5 159 Fenuki Tupou T Oregon 6 194 Brandon Gibson WR Washington State 7 213 Paul Fanaika G Arizona State 7 230 Moise Fokou 2010 1 13 Brandon Graham DE Michigan 2 37 Nate Allen FS South Florida 3 86 Daniel Te'o-Nesheim DE Washington 4 105 Trevard Lindley DB Kentucky 4 121 Keenan Clayton LB Oklahoma 4 122 Mike Kafka QB Northwestern 4 125 Clay Harbor TE Missouri State 5 134 Ricky Sapp DE Clemson 5 159 Riley Cooper WR Florida 6 200 Charles Scott RB LSU 7 220 Jamar Chaney MLB Mississippi State 7 243 Jeff Owens DT Georgia 7 244 Kurt Coleman FS Ohio State 2011 1 23 Danny Watkins G Baylor 2 54 Jaiquawn Jarrett DB Temple 3 90 Curtis Marsh DB Utah State 4 116 Casey Matthews LB Oregon 4 120 Alex Henery K Nebraska 5 149 Dion Lewis RB Pittsburgh 5 161 Julian Vandervelde G Iowa 6 191 Jason Kelce C Cincinnati 6 193 Brian Rolle LB Ohio State 7 237 Greg Lloyd LB Connecticut 7 240 Stanley Havili RB USC I clearly don't see that embarrassment of riches coming from the draft. Majority of their talent has come from free agency. In fact if not for free agency they wouldn't have a very good team at all.
I am certainly not defending Sparano. Heck, I was on this forum calling for him to be fired after the 2010 season. I just happen to believe that coaches get too much of the blame when the players on the field don't make plays in the fourth quarter to secure a win. I agree that Sparano was not a good NFL HC and that he needed to be replaced. I also feel that the Dolphins have a very limited team in regards to talent and that I blame on Ireland. As I have stated many times, Sparano and Parcells are no longer here to blame for the failures of the players on the field. If the Dolphins turn it around and make the playoffs this year, I will be happy to agree with you that it was all Sparano's fault last year. If on the other hand, the Dolphins fail to make the playoffs and once again finish below 500. Perhaps you will have to reconsider where the fault lies.
I don't recall saying it all came from the draft. But are you telling me they're not an extremely deep team?
Firstly, thank you for admitting that. That's certainly respectable. If you've been wrong before in talent assessment (just as myself and everyone else has) and you seem to be wrong with your talent assessment of Tannehill, then is it not possible that the team might have a bit more talent than you perceived or our record would indicate? IMO what was holding us back wasn't a lack of great talent at QB b/c, outside of Brady, I felt Miami was on par NE talent-wise. We were on par with the SB winning Giants when we played them. We were on par with a talented Dallas team. We were on par with Houston IMO but were just plain sloppy and not prepared. We had a 15-0 lead on Denver (a playoff team) until late in the 4th qtr. IMO there was only 1 game where we truly looked outmatched, and that was vs Philly. The most telling truth about Miami not being one of the NFL's least talented teams comes from the fact that we beat up less talented teams. That's what talented teams w/o a franchise QB should be doing---- beating up on bad teams and playing good teams close (especially those with franchise QBs). I actually thought our '08 team was less talented despite its record b/c we barely beat a slew of the league's worst teams and got clobbered by good ones. Over the last 10 games of 2011 we had a top 3 defense. That doesn't happen w/o talent. If Tannehill becomes the franchise QB we think he is, the offense is set outside of adding at least 1 talented receiver. The Oline will be solid once Martin settles in; he's too good of a player not to IMO. We now have talent, versatility, playmaking ability, and depth at TE & RB. We have solid talent at #3 through 6 receiver (if we're including Bess & Hartline). IMO, considering no team needs Pro Bowlers at every position, all that we're lacking to be highly competitive is a quality receiver, another stud pass rusher, and much of the influx of young talent the past 2 years to develop (especially Tannehill).
See what you're doing though? This is what we do. The Dolphins are bad, so we have to rationalize that by pointing out the flaws in teams that are better while absolving the GM of our bad team. Why? Why not just call it like it is?
Ireland had an opportunity to draft a QB in the 2011 draft, but he instead stuck with Henne as the teams starting QB. Parcells was no longer with the organization and there was no reason for Ireland to not draft a QB or move up in the draft to take one if he wasn't satisfied with Henne being the starter in 2011. As far as the players not being in shape. Perhaps you forgot that there were no preseason camps prior to the 2011 season. Because of the lockout, coaches were not able to have any contact with the players until the the owners and the union agreed to a new CBA. Holding a coach responsible for players not staying in shape in the off season makes no sense at all. The players are making a lot of money and it is their responsibility to report in decent shape. Because of a short pre season last year, all those players who reported out of shape didn't get back into shape until mid season. I guess it was Sparano's fault that a team leader, Danby, reported to camp last year nearly 30 lbs over his playing weight and he was totally out of shape. By that reasoning, it must have also been Philbin's fault that John Jerry reported to camp well over his playing weight this season. I blame these players for reporting to camp fat and out of shape. I certainly don't blame the coaches.
Well they do APPEAR to be deep, yes. But that is also with projecting draft picks. If we are projecting draft picks, you could say the Dolphins are deep at QB, TE, RB, DL, and CB. You can also make an argument for the Eagles being thin at WR, TE, OL, and LB. Dolphins are clearly thin at WR, OL, LB, and S. I obviously believe Eagles are deeper, no arguing there. I obviously believe the Eagles are a better team, yes. However, I am trying to show by showing those drafts, there isn't a big difference between Ireland and people who is doing an amazing job by some peoples standards. Ireland clearly hasn't had the same success in free agency as the Eagles, which is why they are a playoff team, and we are not.
I am just like everyone else alive. I have an opinion and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am certainly wrong. I will admit that the Dolphins could easily have had a better record last season. Yet, they didn't and after going 20-28 over the last three season, I expect more from this organization. My view of the Dolphins is how I see things at this time. I am certainly willing to keep an open mind and see how this coming season turns out. I am not high on Ireland, which should be obvious, but I am certainly willing to see if he is able to change my mind during this coming season. As negative as I may seem at this time, the fact is that I want nothing more then to see the Dolphins once again become a winning football team. Hopefully Philbin will be the coach we have been looking for since Shula left and Tannehill will finally be the long term answer at the QB position. I guess the Dolphins combined record of 128-128 over the last 16 years, since Shula left as the HC of the Dolphins, has just led to my complete frustration with this football team, the owner, and the GM. I am sick and tired of mediocre and having been a fan for the last 46 years, I want and expect more from this organization. I look forward to to the Dolphins and especially Tannehill and Ireland proving me wrong in my assessment of their abilities.
They're a typical team thats been built through FA, and will always look better on paper. Throw in very little flexibility in future years.
That's far from what I'm doing. I admit we're bad. Out of all the teams you want us to emulate or look at as a shinning example, I don't understand why its the Eagles. Why not the Giants or the Packers or even the Pats...no you point out the Eagles which was considered the biggest disappointment last season. I call everything like it is. Its you and the others that aren't. You pretend Ireland didn't have to follow Parcells blueprint so you can have a witch to burn. Its absurd. He may suck, but we don't have the evidence to prove it yet. Fact.
No, sorry, I won't reconsider, and it's not b/c I'm stubborn but b/c I know that transitioning from a Parcells, Sparano, and Henning team to a Philbin one isn't a quick fix, and b/c the talent being brought in for this transition will need time to develop. Any expectations that a below .500 2012 record = failure is unreasonable and extreme IMO, especially if when we're starting a rookie QB and are amidst an offensive & defensive change in scheme (which is for the better I might add, rather than being just an excuse for a GM to buy time). So let me ask you, From 2008-'10, do you believe Ireland chose all the players he, himself, would've preferred (even though Parcells did much of the choosing), or do you believe he scouted & drafted players to fit what Parcells wanted based on the offensive & defensive schemes run by Parcells' hired, failed coaches/coordinators? Do you honestly think our offense would've looked as bland the past 4 years if Ireland had instead been drafting for a wide-open Packers/Saints style offense rather than the incompetent dinosaur Dan Henning's? After all, isn't it the GM's responsibility to draft the players to fit the scheme? And if the scheme is flawed, outdated, or poorly coached (or all 3), how does that help the guy trying to put players into it? Personally, I don't know how good of a GM he is or isn't, but I think he's on the right track now that he's had some time to break into the position (which I don't think you're factoring in) and has the team w/o Parcells' heavy if not overbearing influence.
He didn't think any of the QBs he was in position to draft were worth it. He did bring in Matt Moore who played decent. He did not sit pat on Henne. Motivation is in the purview of the coaches. If the players aren't motivated that's the coaches fault.
Sorry but it's not wise to panic and draft a QB just to draft one. That'd be silly of us. It's almost like you think the NFL is a 5 team league and we're the only one wanting a franchise QB. Other teams were in a more favorable draft position than we were; they got the QBs. Period. It happens. That's why we stuck with Henne. B/c we didn't make a rash and panicky decision we ended up with a better QB [Tannehill], so no matter how you try to spin it, it looks like Ireland's QB decisions proved to be the RIGHT ones regarding the best interest of the franchise over the long haul.
