Like him or not, one of Jeff Ireland's talents is that he excels at the Game of Thrones. He knows how to hold onto power while those around him fall. He's our own 'Tyrion Lannister'. Thinking about the rumor of Vontae Davis being traded to the Colts for a high-pick, it could seriously help Jeff Ireland. Consider these two scenarios: 1) Ireland and Philbin go all in on drafting Tannehill. He performs well in camp. He has most of the supporting cast around him excpet, it could be argued, a top-=tier WR corps. The Dolphins offense and defense struggle through the year and we win only 4 games. A year after fans were openly campaigning to "Fire Ireland", the voices grow and perhaps Jeff ireland's job is at risk again. Ross asks for an explanation, and Ireland argues it will take time for Tannehill to develop. "But what about the defense's poor performance?" Ireland may or may not have an adequate answer. he must convince Ross there is hope for the future if they stay with the plan.... does Ross buy that? 2) It is preseason and the decision is made to go all in on Tannehill. Vontae Davis and a 3rd are traded to the Colts for their 1st round pick in next year's draft. The year goes badly and we win only four games. The "Fire Ireland" chants start and Ross calls Jeff into his office. Ireland explains that Tannehill needs time to develop and help at receiver... but wait! They plan on using a 1st round pick to give that to Ryan this offseason so next year will be better! "What about the defensive struggles Jeff?" "Well, as you know it was the players' first year in this system, plus we need more pass rush so QBs can't pick us apart and I can solve that in THIS YEAR'S DRAFT! With the ADDITIONAL 1st round pick we got from the Davis trade! Our two last holes will be filled this draft, Mr. Ross." I could see Ross buying that. There is ALWAYS more hope with two first round picks in the hopper. I also think it's easier for Jeff to say we "knew" it was a rebuild year so we let Vontae go and expected the defense to dip a bit, so don't judge us by that. Let us get this new pass rusher in. It's pure speculation, but if this is a rebuild year and the outcome is doubtful a trade like this gives Ireland more wiggle room and more 'future hope' to dangle in front of Ross to keep his job. Thoughts?
They wouldn't do that trade. The best I see us getting for Vontae is possibly a 2nd and that's doubtful. While Vontae has been up and down, we should keep him until his contract runs out (possibly longer). He has all the talent in the world and if he puts it together watch out.
I think the idea of trading Vontae Davis has a whole lot more to do with Vontae Davis than with Jeff Ireland's job. If Vontae Davis was playing like he should be, there wouldn't be any talk about trading him.
Agree, but there are also other factors that can sweeten the appeal or reduce the appeal of making the move. It's never just about the one player. It's about how the move fits into the overall vision and plan to build the team, by when, and all that. Making sure this regime gets to Year Two isn't a bad thing to consider, imo. I actually respect that sort of proactive planning, so long as it ALSO benefits the team long term.
Going along with the scenarios, if we're hypothetically a 4 win team, then we probably wouldn't be more than a 5 win team with Vontae, give or take a win.... so in that regard we'd still pretty much be in the same boat with or without Vontae, I'd think. The 2012 draft featured a lot of talented/upside guys who need some developing, so that alone will likely buy Ireland a pass through 2013. But it's my opinion that Ireland is the type of man who puts his team before himself and wouldn't pull something just to buy himself time. Trading Vontae for a high pick would allow us an opportunity to build the offense up as a strength around Tannehill. What would ultimately prove beneficial is how that draft pick pans out. Plus we have enough FA money next year to add another corner, meanwhile we'd have a high pick to hopefully use on WR or DE or package with our 2nd to move up for one. It would cost us in the short term, but it could benefit us over the long term.
By the same token though, most of the knocks on Vontae Davis coming out of Illinois - inconsistency, being somewhat of a head-case, off-field issues, etc. - aren't these pretty much essentially what's come of Vontae Davis in the NFL? Jeff Ireland chose to draft him anyway. I think it goes hand in hand. Certainly there are factors beyond Jeff Ireland's control, I get that. But if Ireland and his staffers were on top of their game when it came to selecting Vontae, they knew the risks. That said, based on Vontae's experience over the past few seasons, and even as recently as the Carolina game, I think he was the best CB Miami had on the field compared to Sean Smith and Richard Marshall.
To be fair, we really have no idea if there is actually talk about trading him (among the people that matter).
Jeff Ireland knew the risks. IMO, he was hoping Davis could over come his immaturity/inconsistency issues while developing in the NFL.
Considering some of the coaches who've worked with Davis, from college through last season, I can see why he hasn't overcome said issues. Personally, if I were trading a CB from this team, it'd be Sean Smith (that also fits the bill as far as Irsay saying he needs to open his checkbook better than Davis at the moment). I just think the talent, if harnessed, outweighs the other stuff.
I think I can agree with that, even though I am a fan of Sean Smith. In the end, I hope we keep both together. I still believe in them.
Before we throw out a potential top-tier CB in the league, I say we give Philbin/Coyle and the rest of the staff an opportunity to help Vontae become what we all hoped he would. I missed the Carolina game (dang DVR!) but one poster seems to think Vontae was our best CB on the field, lets see where he goes from here before sending him off.
I have to agree. I don't see any team in the NFL giving up a first round selection for Davis. In fact I think the Dolphins would be very lucky to get a second round pick for him. I think a third round pick would be more likely. Based on the scenario by BkP, I don't see how a possible extra second or third round selection would help Ireland save his job, if the Dolphins only win 4 games this coming season.
He was very good in that game IMO. Went toe to toe with Steve Smith, got to him enough that Steve had to try something else to get him off his game so he started taking some cheap shots while blocking. Vonte responded, I'm not completely upset about it. I think the penalty call against Vonte was pretty pathetic if anything both should have gotten offset penalties. I loved the fire though. On the trade front, if we trade Vonte we really dont have anybody to play the nickle CB. IMO in this new league the slot WR really is one of the most important guys to be able to cover. If Vonte can lock down the slot WR or a TE from New England I dont think its worth what we could get for him.
Even when Vontae comes in as the 3rd CB, Richard Marshall was still playing the nickel role - covering the slot WR. If Vontae's traded, then you're looking at Nolan Carroll or Jonathan Wade, at the moment anyways, playing the role Vontae is currently in with Richard Marshall still bumping inside to cover the slot WR. I'm still curious as to whether or not the best combination might almost be having Richard Marshall playing FS and keeping Davis and Smith at the CB spots. You could move Marshall into the slot and bring in Chris Clemons or Jimmy Wilson to play S in those situations. Frankly, the trio of Reshad Jones, Chris Clemons, and Jimmy Wilson...well, that scares me a bit (okay, a lot). I'll reserve judgment given what Kevin Coyle was able to to with Reggie Nelson, Chris Crocker, and Taylor Mays last year though in Cincinnati. And for the life of me, I can't find anywhere with either Tony Sparano last year or Joe Philbin/Kevin Coyle why they ever flipped Vontae from LCB to RCB in base sets. Granted, last year Davis seemed to move wherever the #1 WR was most of the time, but it'd seem to me to be a better fit to have Vontae on the left side (the offense's right) as he's better against the run. IMO, most teams are still primarily right-handed when it comes to running the ball.
I honestly don't understand your premise. I just don't see how this specific trade is more a benefit to him than any other trade or how its all part of a masterplan of not being fired.
The money for free agency is a great point. We have a huge competitive advantage in this league by having a starting QB who came in after the rookie wage scale! We have way more resources available than teams with top ten vet QBs or top ten QB picks from two years ago.
Agreed. I think their potential is good. I guess that just goes with some guys that you have to wait a few years to tap into that potential. I'll say it again, I know CK had a thread on it earlier in the offseason, but I still wonder if you don't try and move Richard Marshall to FS, where he played some last year for the Cardinals, and get him plus Smith and Davis all on the field at the same time. I think that mitigates some of the negative plays from Chris Clemons, Reshad Jones, or Jimmy Wilson.
We'd have to see what we get for Vontae before making a conclusion, but a 1st, even if we throw in a 3rd is rather unrealistic. Vontae by himself would land us a 4th at best. Based on that scenario, I see no way it benefits Ireland.
If Ireland trades Vonte it wont matter how many picks he gets for him if we have a loosing season Jeff won't be here to use those picks.
I found Parcells to be cool and charming, if not a little exotic. That is, until he birthed the shadow baby that is Jeff Ireland
Fans: "Ireland, you didn't carrry out your job with honor." Ireland: (Points to Sparano's empty chair) "He did."
Ireland & Parcells definitely knew there was some risk involved with Vontae but, IIRC, Ron Zook endorsed Vontae [regarding Davis not being a problem kid]. Vontae represented too much value at our pick, and considering we were in need of 2 starting corners, we were basically forced to take him. At times I think a GM has to have faith that his coaching staff can develop the player and keep him motivated. Personally, at the time I had wished we used our spare $6.0 million in cap space on a vet corner [like Leigh Bodden or Bryant McFadden] to free up our 1st round pick for Hakeem Nicks, and it really bothered me knowing we were heading into a draft with the pressure of having to come away with 2 starting corners. Initially I blamed Ireland for it, but I later withdrew the blame b/c I had no way of knowing exactly whose decision it was to put us in that position considering Parcells had the most power and BP said that he could step in and did step in when he saw his young, inexperienced GM about to step in poop.
But I will say, considering we had to come away with a starting corner with our 2009 1st rounder (b/c Parcells had #44 pre-reserved for for his pet-cat pick, Pat White), I'm thankful Ireland or Parcells drafted Vontae instead of Alphonso Smith or Darius Butler.
