I just thought it'd be interesting to see this through a different perspective. Let's say this hypothetical CB is a solid #3 who can step in as a starter if needed, which is basically what I'd think a team wants from a #3.
Yeah he was listed as #3 on the preseason depth chart, but he was our best cover guy on the team. And remember everyone saying it was just to send a message.
I would think that the #3 CB position should determine the value you place on the player rather than the player, himself, and that that value is capped. The only exception, IMO, would be if you had an aging vet at #1 or #2 and needed the #3 to have more talent b/c you're grooming him to be the #1.
If you had Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees on your team and you traded Brees for a 2nd and a 6th, would you be happy?
If he was our best cover guy he wouldn't have been demoted to #3. Who is this "everyone" who said it was a message? Fans?... or the coaching staff? Added: Vontae needing a message sent doesn't support your argument BTW.
I would say calling Vontae a #3 isnt correct. I dont care what the depth chart says during preseason.
If Ireland took the picks and found another Vontae Davis type player who was being a malcontent on his team but could be very good, I would heartily endorse the trade. I don't fault Ireland for this one because for once I think this was the coaching staff fighting with a player and Ireland making the best he could out of an ugly situation he didn't start.
Vontae is our first or second best CB (behind Smith depending on your POV). Definitely not third best.
Anybody who says it would depend on the individual player is fooling themselves IMO. About the time Ireland traded a #2 and a #6 for a guy who wasn't even starting, people would be starting threads organizing a lynching.
He's #3 for us, and that's all that matters. What value do you place on a #3 CB when there's no aging vet at 1 or 2 in need of replacing?
Vontae Davis ran his mouth last season about what a great tandem he and Smith made, yet we were like #25 against the pass that year. We traded him for what will likely be a HIGH 2nd round pick. We drafted him at #25, and will possibly get a mid 30's pick in return, AFTER he busted... Vontae Davis had already lost his starting spot on the defense last week, and wasn't accomplishing much in the nickel either. We just played a good half of coverage against last season's #8 passing attack with Smith and Marshall at corner, and did a pretty good job...
I would play all 3 on every down and have them zip the ball back and forth to each other all the way down the field
No ****. Truly, in my opinion, time to give Ireland some credit. I think this was a good trade. Davis was a FA that we weren't going to sign...and has proven he will never be a #1...
Here's a poll for you: Judging a player's career and talent on a preseason depth chart is: a. Kinda nuts. b. Biased. c. I drink Jeff Ireland Kool-Aid.
The difference in this case is that this preseason depth chart represents the loss of Vontae Davis's job.
To me, it's not about judging his talent. Of course he's not third on the depth chart talent. It's about the coaching staff on this team putting him down there suggesting he is a malcontent. That hurt his trade value and was something Ireland could do nothing about -- for once, coaching screwed him instead of the other way around.
Hypothetically, if the draft is next weekend and we need a #3 corner to play behind the entrenched SS & Marshall, what round do you guys feel would be appropriate to address the need? How would you guys honestly feel if we took a #3 corner over #1 WR with our 2nd round pick? Regardless of how much we may have liked Vontae and want to hold onto his "potential" label, he was demoted to our #3 CB, and that's all that matters. As such, we should look at in terms of the value we place on the #3 corner position.
Exactly. And now we can let Indianapolis fool around trying to get his potential out of him, while we draft someone in the high 2nd round with their pick.
What chaps my *** is that they might get his potential out of him which will leave me wondering why the hell our coaching staff couldn't do that. Meanwhile, we have a good idea from the post-Johnson era what a Dolphins second rounder looks like.
How would you feel about a trade for a 2nd and 6th for a guy relegated to punt coverage in 2007? The same guy that would later lead the league in all purpose yards for half the season? Ronnie Brown was down on the depth chart to send a message, just like Vontae.
And at that point we'll never know if it was the trade, or the new coaching staff, that did the trick for him. Either way, if you're going to create a team culture, you have to act consistently with it. If your own player isn't living up to your philosophy, it might be time for him to go, regardless of what he may do with some other team. You have your own team and your own culture to think about, not some other team and some individual player's future career path.
Are you saying that you know with absolute 100% certainty that the players we get from the 2nd & 6th round picks won't have more value to this team than Vontae? What if the 2nd is traded for an impact WR and it leaves us still with an extra 6th?
Exactly. If this weren't true as some are trying to suggest, then it would make zero sense for the coaches to demote a guy while the team is looking to trade him.
Vontae has been a starter since he came into the league. Being benched once, and Marshall has been worse than Vontae ever was so you say #3, I say thats bull #2.....
It's interesting that when the trade is reversed and Vontae's name is removed, there's not a poster yet who's said it would be a good trade for us to spend a 2nd & 6th round pick for a backup corner [who is good enough to start for us if needed].
What would you think if our GM drafts a Sam LB in the 2nd round, considering a nickel corner is on the field about 60% of the defensive snaps and the Sam LB whom he replaces is on the field for 40%? Can you think of any GM who drafted a Sam in the 2nd round in recent years?
The problem wasn't the position, the problem was Wanny reached and bypassed better players at other positions.
2 years ago VD was on his way of being a top 10 corner easy. He has the ability most corners don't have.
Yes, and the worst part was he did not fit the system Wanny ran. Fletcher was a solid zone Cb, and terrible in press man coverage.
Just as judging a player based on "potential" well into his fourth training camp is: a. Kinda nuts. b. Biased. c. I hate Jeff Ireland.