Do You Agree With the Trade of Vontae Davis for a 2nd?

Reading this thread I can't believe how many people are mad we got a 2nd rounder and a late rounder for Davis and think we should've got MORE. More? Has nobody watched this guy play? He's 3rd on the depth chart for a reason. If we somehow turn this into Mike Wallace, it will be one of the very few things Ireland has done right as a Miami Dolphin.

 

We have to see if that is true and if it is , after the proof he will get credit. To date we have no idea if that is true do we?

 

If we somehow turn this into Larry Fitzgerald it will also be one of the few things Ireland has done right... the point is what? Ireland has not done much right? Ok ... agreed.

 

Exactly. Carroll has sucked on the football field. I don't care what Ireland says. Actions speak louder than words.

 

The point is, at least Ireland will have done something beneficial to the football team before he inevitably gets fired. A move that will benefit us long term.

 

Carroll is also older than Vonte.

 

This is just more proof that the people who hate Ireland have little clue whats goin on...... the coaching staff was done with vontae.

 

The likelyhood of either WR being acquired for the second round pick we received is marginal at the very best imo.

 

Unless we flip the 2nd for a really good wideout, then no. I don't like it.

 

Davis still had a year on his rookie deal, if we want to keep Smith he now has more leverage so we will need to pay more.
Based on what I saw in the Falcons game I don't think Marshall is all that at CB and we will see that down the road.

 

I have no idea if this turns out to be a good move or not.

I do think its weird for people to say its a bad deal because now we have no depth or nickel corner, but would be pissed to all hell if we spent a 2nd for a depth or nickel CB.

 

AGREE WITH THE TRADE.

For some perspective, I look at it this way:
If we hadn't signed Marshall we'd have SS, VD, and Carroll.
Now we instead have SS, Marshall, Carroll, AND an extra 2nd & 6th.... and based on Vontae's demotion it looks like the better trio is SS, Marshall, and Carroll.


So basically we swapped our #2 corner for Richard Marshall, a 2nd rounder, and 6th rounder. I'd say that's a win.

 

Did I use the word "great" to describe him before?
IMO, Vontae was our best man cover corner as of yesterday. Today he is gone, so it's a moot point.

 

Yes, let's give Ireland credit where it is due. We have how many Pro Bowl caliber players, yet are as up against the cap right now as just about any team in the league?

 

I think emotions and frustrations are running high because this team looks poised to put out a nice pile of steamy dog poo on the field this year. It could very well be a good trade- we're just tired of seeing our team be complete crap.

 

No. Davis has all the talent you want. He just needs someone to get his head into the game. It worked for his brother, Im sure it would work with him. Im not sure why, with a new coaching staff here they were not willing to work with him. Just because his attitude sucks, and he was lazy all offseason again, doesnt mean you cant coach that out of him. At least try... and not just preseason.

Who's our #3 corner now... nolan carrol? Wow... now thats's great depth. In a league where passing is at a premium, and thus means CB's are as well... you can never have too man. Talent like that, is worth working for.

Thats my reasons that surround VD himself...

Now the other reason I disagree with it... Jeff Ireland has another 2nd round pick to blow.

 

You can see the big picture. Re-build it now around T Hill, Bess, Long, Pouncey, Miller, and Clay on offense, and Starks, Solia, Odrick, Wake, and Smith on defense and Carpenter and Fields. Use the mulitiple high picks on skill positions and OL, with the balance on defense, and you should be able to plug many of the numerous holes with the 10 picks so far. FA money will go on our own, all IMHO. Starks, Long, Smith stay. Bush, Fasano, McDaniel, Moore ( if not traded before October) go. Davis didnt fit in. Leaves us thin, but add 2 next year. Jimmy Wilson and N Carroll grow in to key depth roles.

This is turning in to a gut job. Is there Moore? Or will Bush be next? So, I like the trade, today. My final feelings will depend on what they do with 2 picks. Get it while you can though and build it with the draft. So the question is...........who will run this now franchise defining, very critical, 2013 draft??????

 

It doesn't matter what physical talent Davis might have. We got a 2nd round pick out of it. You don't turn down likely high 2nd round picks for lazy inconsistent players like Davis regardless if it creates a lack of depth. That lack of depth isn't going to matter much anyways since this team isn't winning anything this year.

 

Okay, I agree with you. It doesn't really matter, because 1st or 2nd round, he was still a bust.

 

....you make a good point.

 

The only chance the Dolphins have of being successful in the 2013 draft, is if Ireland is NOT the person making the selections for the Dolphins.

 

This is a good point that's gone under the radar.

Joe Philbin very clearly did not like Vontae Davis. Ireland has, for whatever reason, seemingly seceded some degree of decision making to Joe Philbin. It shouldn't be at all controversial to suggest Philbin agreed with or even prompted this move. Yet he's not even mentioned here.

There's also the Kevin Coyle element which I've previously mentioned- The guy has had no end of ****-up and underachieving defensive backs with the Bengals. If Coyle had doubts with his ability to motivate and improve Davis, then that's a pretty big deal.

 

In this case, the trade itself doesn't determine the value of the trade. The results of the future players acquired will determine its value.

Any current bickering about the merit of the trade is nothing more than spinning our wheels.

 

Voted yes. I pretty much summed up my thoughts in the other thread. Simply put Vontae was down to the #3 CB....his value would never have been higher for a cat who just wasn't showing any signs of growing up.

There was a reason he dropped on draft day. The old regime took a shot/risk...it didn't pan out. It happens.

 

Well said Da'Fins ^^^^

 

This is just more proof that some fans will defend Ireland until he's fired no matter how many terrible or questionable roster moves he makes. Or how long he ignores positions crucial to success in today's NFL. First it was QB, now it's TE, WR, Safety, etc.

I can't wait till the day he's canned. I'll be really interested to see the reaction of Ireland fan club on that day. I'm guessing you'll all pretend you never really liked him that much anyway. See: Chad Henne fan club for a great example.

 

I don't think when the season started VD would have been the 3rd cornerback.
Yes he came in out of shape. He came in out of shape last year but after the first few games was by far the best corner on the team. With the full preseason, VD was getting in shape and is a better tackler and cover guy than Marshall or SS.

This reminds me a little bit of when we traded Welker for a 2nd round pick and people said we got good value, drove me nuts. Welker was worth more to us than a 2nd rounder, and so was VD. This one hurts.

 

To me this is worse than the Welker trade. Welker is a good WR who has benefited from playing with a HoF QB and a great offensive system. If we had kept him, he wouldn't be considered the stud he is today, he would just be considered a very solid WR, IMHO.

VD is a guy who doesn't need a good QB to produce since he plays defense. And he can help slow down the stud WRs and QBs in this league. And we just got rid of him for a 2nd that is not worth anything in the hands of the inept Jeffrey Ireland.

The Ireland Kool-Aid drinkers will continue to call VD a 3rd CB but you've got the truth of it. He was a dominant player for our Miami Dolphins more times than not. For anyone to suggest otherwise is revisionist history. Fans tend to think dominant CBs aren't dominant because you don't here their names often during a game. But the truth is, you're not supposed to hear a dominant CBs name much in a game. It means they're doing their job. So because we didn't hear much about Vontae in many of those games as he locked down WRs like Randy Moss, fans tend to think he wasn't dominant. Not true. Revisionist history.

 

You know, this board has usually been a site that had a little class. This post has helped lower that quite a bit. Davis has, at best, been underperforming for the last two years, and has wasted two years of learning his craft to go along with admittedly formidable skills. That is not being a professional. Patrick Surtain was a professional. Sam Madison was a professional. Davis, right now, is a wannabe professional football player. His head is not in the game, and that is a bad influence on the rest of the team. If he had lived up to his draft position, we would not be having this poll.

 

I'm tired of the revisionist history on welker. He was a restricted free agent that signed a poison pill contract that miami couldn't match. The league stepped in and turned it into a trade. He didn't want to be here.

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You have to axe yourself this....

Would Vontae make this team, win more games than they are going to win? Listen guys he is one year away from a walk year, where it was going to be very hard to retain him via free agency. I don't think they would have spent the money on him.....I think the comp was ok.....that 2nd could be a top 10 in the 2nd round...

 

Getting a high #2 for Vontae is fine, I just dont have very much confidence that the guy in charge of talent procurement is going to do very much with it.

 

the guy lead the team in INT in 2/3 years here in Miami... He was by FAR the most productive member of our secondary. He's still a young guy with tons of upside with a rookie contract. I wish he came into training camp in better shape, but he didn't. It's not the end of the world as most fans want to make it out to be. Getting ready for 16 games is the goal of camp anyway. He seemed to really be coming on strong once again.

It seems pretty clear that some fans are deluding themselves into believing this can be made into a good thing... Whether you agree with the "class" of that post, it kind of does reflect what happens a lot around here. A decision by the front office is made and fans turn on a player in an effort to show team support.

Let's call it like it is. Miami wasted the 2009 1st round pick and passed over Hakeem Nicks (who I and many others wanted) and Clay Matthews for a 2013 2nd rounder. Worst of all, given Ireland's ability to draft, it's likely a miss, when we had a hit to begin with. There is nothing good about this. Even if we get Mike Wallace, who is a one trick pony, it still doesn't make up for it.

 

And, it makes the greatest event of the NFL season (the season) potentially a LOT less interesting for Dolphin fans.

 

It's a good point you make here. Take a look at the thread when this trade was still a rumor and Vontae Davis was still a Dolphin. Most fans thought it was crazy and in that thread VD was not discussed as being a "3rd cornerback".

Once it's official how quickly fans change their minds and start churning the pro-Ireland spin. They'll bail on Ireland too once he's finally fired. And they will pretend they never liked him much anyway. And the new GM will be Mr. CanDoNoWrong.

 

You know it's sad... I don't think highly of Ireland but I don't think poorly of him. But I am sure because I am not *****ing about this trade I would be lumped in with the black and white generalization concerning pro/anti Ireland. Not many former 1st round picks would go for a 2nd round pick four years later, especially when that player hasn't separated himself as a top player at his respective position in the NFL. Davis has made some athletic plays resulting in turnovers but lets not ignore the big plays and mental errors he has made that the stats don't show. Could Davis be a top 5 CB in this league? Absolutely... but its year 4 and we're still saying what he could be. You can only make your decision based on potential for so long. He's not worth a first round pick at this point and at some point you gotta look at what you can recoup. A 2nd round pick seems fair value to me considering we will likely extend Sean Smith who appears to have taken the next step. I am trying to think of this logically but I am sure it will be dismissed as pro-Ireland trash by half the forum.