Chuck Pagano Comments, Plus Media Comments On Vontae Trade

Wes Welker 2.0.

 

If I was a Colts fan I would be pretty pumped. Vonte needs a wake up call , no doubt , this may be it ... maybe that organization will also mesh better with him for the benefit of both. Lots of 24 year old physically elite players have matured into very productive players.

 

Funny, you could have said the same thing about Vernon Davis at the same age.

Wes Welker 2.0 sounds about right.

 

Give me a break as well. Who's created more TO since his arrival?

Edit: Now that I think about it, which 3 players have created more TO since his arrival.

 

Yea I guess every brother is the same right?

Where's their other brother btw?

 

He's in jail for killing people with a hammer. That is the reason I gave him a break coming into camp.

The Colts got better today and the Dolphins didn't.

 

So his brother being an idiot means he has a reason to get lazy and fat?

Somehow I doubt Vernon shares that opinion.

 

Point being, people saying Vontae will turn it around because Vernon did is silly rationale, because he also had a brother who is a murderer. So if the silly logic is too believed Vontae has as much chance to turn it around as he does to become a murderer. So why don't we just stop predicting what people will do by their brothers?

 

Vernon caught his 1st pass of the preseason today for a 44 yard TD.

 

Who cares if Vontae turns anything on. If he turns it on, he is a top 3 corner in this league. If he doesn't he is still very very good, and the best on our team. When Vontae is bad, he is still good. More SS24, shying away from tackles and not showing up on Sundays though. yay.


Vontae was a hitter, and a strong player at a very difficult position. The coaches make him 3rd string to send a message, and now he sucks right? Guy started from day 1 as a rookie. This is a joke. Our defense has been HORRIBLE this preseason..as has our offense. This does not help our team.

 

And?

 

I actually like VD more than SS24, but we can get more from trading VD than SS, plus VD is pretty lazy and the coaches don't like him, so I support the move.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

If some people are happy with the trade of Davis because they didn't like his attitude or because they felt that he didn't buy into what Philbin is trying to do, I can understand your joy in seeing him traded.

If on the other hand you seriously think Marshall is an upgrade over Davis and a better all around CB. You obviously didn't watch the Falcon game, where Marshall was terrible. I think Marshall is certainly not an upgrade for Davis but rather a huge downgrade. The Dolphins had a below average secondary with Davis playing for them. They now have probably the worst secondary in the entire NFL.

 

out of curiousity, how many players has ireland given up that have gone on to do good things? I ask honestly. Including when bp was here.

 

yeah let's omit the first two games. right.

 

Obviously you are willing to overlook the fact that Davis was the best CB on the roster the last two years. The third game of the preseason has always been the one game in preseason in which each team actually game plan for, and the starters play the majority of the game. Marshall played terrible in the game. In the first two preseason games, the entire first string defense played terrible, including Marshall.

 

The Dolphins have been 20-28 over the last three seasons. Therefore it is irrelevant how many players Ireland has given up on who have gone on to do good things. The real problem with Ireland is he hasn't been able to provide the Dolphins with quality players who do enough good things for his team. Perhaps that is why the Dolphins have been a losing team for the last three years and will probably be a losing team again this season.

 

well seeing as how marshall wasn't on the roster..............................
and you obviously are just picking and choosing whatever helps you argue rather then what is.

 

Bottom line, VD doesn't fit into what Philbin wants out of his payers minds..

 

I'm not picking and choosing anything to help my argument. I am merely stating the reality of the situation. If you are happy with Marshall as the starting CB and Carroll as the fifth defensive back, great.

I just see this entire defensive secondary as one of the worst, if not the worst defensive secondary in the entire NFL.


If you think Marshall is so much better than Davis, exactly how high a draft pick would the Colts have given up in a trade for Marshall? My guess is the Dolphins would have been lucky to get a seventh round pick for Marshall and it is more likely that the Colts would have had absolutely no interest in trading for Marshall.

 

Hey, Josh. How about actually watching some Dolphins preseason games before forming your worthless opinion?

 

my guess is again you are only picking what you want to see. You let's see have thus far 1) omitted the first two preseason games where vd didn't do **** 2) omitted a time where marshall wasn't even here. You are following the very definition of picking and choosing to make your argument. Flail about all you want. Don't worry I can see through the bs.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. 9 INT and 3 FF in 3 years isn't earth-shattering but it is better than all of the returning DBs combined. Just saying.

 

Sometimes even though you can see the angles, you have to go with your gut. I'm just going to go ahead and say, I don't really like this trade that much. I understand it, but I don't really like it. Just because I understand the reasoning and I feel it's constructed in a very sound manner, doesn't mean I feel it stacks up right.

I understand the trade because Richard Marshall is THEIR guy and they just signed him to a longer term contract. Marshall in their eyes has soundly beaten Vontae for the job and at this point they have no reason not to think that Marshall won't keep it for the remainder of his long term deal which runs beyond Vontae's deal. So at this point for them, Vontae is an arrow down player, a guy that is just the nickel corner, and if you can trade off your nickel corner for a 2nd round pick well that's pretty darn good.

But we need to take a step back and ask ourselves how much we really trust that they're making the right calls here. I liked the Richard Marshall signing...when I thought he was going to play SAFETY. If he's going to play corner I think we should be prepared to see a lot more of what we saw against Carolina, which is a guy that just isn't that good. Vontae was arguably better than this guy as he stood, and if he'd just been given more time to buy into the program and get some good coaching by Kevin Coyle and the gang, he might have reached his potential. And even if he didn't, he's a worthwhile starter.

I think I would approve of this trade if I felt like we had the position opposite Sean Smith nailed down. Many people assume we do because they just assume Richard Marshall is a great corner. I don't assume that because I watched him get torched in Arizona when we first signed him and I wanted to gain some insight on the newcomer.

In the end I think we just opened up another hole on the roster.

But at the same time the Dolphins will have 5 picks in the top 3 rounds of the 2013 Draft, and well over $50 million in salary cap space. These are enticing things for a potential new General Manager. With Joe Philbin already in place and likely to get at least another year no matter what he does record-wise this year, that's going to be a disadvantage when it comes to luring a highly sought after General Manager. On top of that you have Ryan Tannehill already in place...and for some prospective General Managers, that could be a deal breaker. But at the same time now that the Dolphins have put together so many high Draft picks and so much salary cap space, those prospective General Managers may think twice. They may come to look at Miami's situation and say you know what, I liked Ryan Tannehill, I think he could work out, and I think Joe Philbin is a good coach...and with $50 million cap space and a ton of Draft picks I can build around them.

 

If I am picking and choosing as you state. Exactly what are you doing when you are totally ignoring how badly Marshall played in the Falcon game? The fact is that Davis played much better against the Falcons than Marshall did. The fact is that if Marshall was as good as you seem to think he is. He would not have been a free agent after last season, because the Cardinals would have signed him to a long term contract in order to keep him. Instead they let him become a free agent after just one season with their team.

Marshall has played for the Panthers,and Cardinals before coming to Miami. So it is obvious that neither of these teams thought enough of him to want to sign him to a long term contract to be a starting CB for their teams. He is merely an average to below average CB who will probably be playing for his fourth NFL team next season.

 

It's obvious that the blind homers will support the front ofice/coach no matter what they do. They could trade Jake Long and Ryan Tannehill right now for a 7th round pick and some of you would say "they just dont fit Philbins system, they are not his type of players" Its the same thing every year with you guys. These are the same guys every year that love our draft and say "relax, its only preseason" when the rest of us clearly see the team still sucks. They should just cut and paste their posts every year cause they are always the same. Again this was a bad trade. VD was the best corner we had, easily. He was put on 3rd string to send him a message. He is clearly better than Marshall. Now if Ireland goes out tomorrow and turns this pick he got today into a #1 franchise receiver, awesome. But, we all know he's not gonna do that.

 

Marshall wasn't starting because he's better. It's because he keeps his mouth shut and plays the role of the good soldier.
Davis maybe immature mentally, but it looked to me like when he stepped on the field he always gave 100%, and was our best man cover corner and best at supporting the run. He'll probably go to the Pro Bowl as a Colt, and Ireland will be sitting there with egg on his face. Not that it will bother him much, because Stevie boy seems too inept to fire him.

 

After 2008, Parcells/Ireland chose to not make any attempt to resign CB Andre Goodman and FS Renaldo Hill, and both signed with Denver and played well there. Goodman is still playing well. They chose instead to throw a huge FA contract at Gibril Wilson which cost more than Goody and Hill signed for combined.
So, there are two names for you. Goodman and Hill.

 

Just shutup and live in denial that we are upgraded at corner by replacing Davis with Marshall.
Didn't you know that Ireland can do no wrong?

 

Hyperbole.

 

Mr. Clean,I thought you were a fan of Ireland? You called him our best talent evaluator since Bobby Beathard, IIRC.

 

I did say that. While that may still be true, that this team is continually floundering in mediocrity may be more of a reflection on those he'd be compared with, rather than his being particularly capable himself.

 

Cool. My intention wasn't to put you on the spot. I just wanted to make sure my memory wasn't going bad.

 

This Davis trade just has me upset too. MAYBE, if he does somehow upgrade us at WR before the season starts, I can deal with it better.

 

Yeah it's all gut now, especially if your confident in Philbin, gotta let'em mold his team with his kind of players..

Gonna have to trust his blueprint at this point right?

 

How many times have we as fans said this? Trust Wanny/Speilman, trust Saban, trust Cam, trust Parcells, trust Sparano and now trust Ireland/Philbin. What has that gotten us. No more trusting for me. I wanna see results. All I want is a winning football team that is entertaining to watch. The clowns that have been runing this team have ran it into the ground.

 

At face value, it doesn't seem sensible to trade away your best corner for a second rounder and a sixth rounder next season. But The question is whether the coaching staff is right in thinking that Vontae is neither our best nor our second best corner. I have to go with the guys who see him every day in practice and know how he's fitting into the scheme.

 

Thats what Im talking about. "having to go with the guys who see him everyday". Thats not a good answer. What guys saw Wes Welker everyday? What guys saw Pat White and thought he was worth a 2nd round pick? What guys drafted Ted Ginn with the 9th overall pic? What guys drafted Jamar Fletcher instaed of Drew Brees and Eddie Moore instead of Anquan Boldin? All horrible mistakes by people who know more than the fans