The Anti-Jeff Ireland Thread

And claiming that it's self-evident based on the teams result is incredibly simplistic and inaccurate. You're posting this thread because of a game that does an awful job proving your point for you. If you're considering that a good baseline for what you're doing here well then I'm sure this thread is going places.

 

Very true....in both cases it is best to do the deed sooner rather than later...

And listen guys Jeff Ireland is the most polarizing figure in this organization from top to bottom...to me this shouldn't be about "ahhhh I told you so" for both the Irish fanboys, or the haters....I just want them to do whats right for the org....

 

This thread shows clearly that the guy needs to be fired. The fact that this thead became if this was a "rant" or not, clearly shows that there is no way the actual point is even debate worthy. The guy has clearly ignored needs for this team for years. We needed saftey help this offseason, knowing it was a weak draft at the position we should have gotten a FA in here. He clearly ignored the fact we dont have anybody that can cover a TE on the roster. He traded our #1 wide reciever, which is fine with the problems that he has/had, but he clearly ignored the position afterwards. Did he really think Naanee was going to replace Marshall??

We drafted a QB in the first round, jury is still out on him. I think he has a good chance of being good, and it was clearly our biggest need.

We then draft a RT, which is ok, but now you have a rookie RT blocking for your rookie QB.

We draft a runningback, good value at the pick I suppose, but we just used a pick on our deepest posion.

We sign R. Marshall, finally we address the saftey issue.....nope we put him back at CB and trade our 3 years starter at CB and leave the unit thin.

I can see that he hits now and then, he finds some people from nowhere like Thigpen and Wake, but you have to get your talent through the draft. I just dont think we are getting that talent that we should or could from there. I would like to see somebody else, knowing that we should be careful for what we wish for.

 

He's had two years to fill every need people want to be filled. That's the debate. The fact he didn't have control or the ability to draft on anything other than Parcells blueprint has been argued ad nauseum and there a number of articles and other evidence but it is continuously ignored.

If people wanted to rate him on last years draft that would be fine. It was a poor draft and is not looking well for him. But this constant steady stream of bull**** about 5 years!! blah effing blah, is ridiculous.

 

That Stephen Hill is gonna be a heckuva player.

 

We didn't need him though.

We took a highly rated player at another position of need. Can't fault old Jeffy for that.

 

here's a few VALID points of disagreement about why Ireland doesn't deserve to be fired at this moment.

1. Ireland's only had 2 drafts ON HIS OWN, based on offensive & defensive schemes he HIMSELF signed off on, not Parcells.

2. That means there's 2 years worth of players whose true value is undetermined, and there's an entirely new coaching staff whose value is also undetermined. Until that comes to fruition nothing can be accurately be said either way about Ireland's true value or lack there of.

3. The moves he's made and choice to not go crazy in FA this year has opened up $60 million in cap space and 2 extra, valuable picks in 2013, allowing Philbin & Co and himself a full year to analyze the YOUNG, DEVELOPING team, which is quite wise considering it's a drastically different offensive scheme and new 4-3, and as such it's possible to have some players either step up or fall off in the new schemes, making it prudent to hold off a year on FA spending in order to make sure it's done correctly and w/o any wasted money since cap space is precious. Plus, IIRC, the $7 million in current cap space can be rolled into next year. You mistakingly look at this as if 2012 is the last year of football.

4. In the process of building extra picks we removed players who either posed a distraction or refused to give as much to the team as their coaches and boss asked of them. Period.

5. Your inherent argument flaws regarding Marshall & Vontae stem from you blaming Ireland for trading them, when in fact THEY are responsible for their OWN actions, the same actions that got them traded. If you have a problem with Marshall & Vontae not being here, perhaps you should be blowing up their Twitter pages expressing your disappointment over how they put themselves in the position to be traded and essentially forcing their GM's hand. You act like Ireland traded 2 model teammates.

6. You conveniently ignore Philbin's statement about being an offense that doesn't rely on a true #1 receiver [Nelson & Jennings each caught less than 70 passes last year], and as such there's no way Mr "I Want 100 Catches" Marshall is worth his huge contract. I'm also not sure how an outspoken, disgruntled, alpha-male receiver who trashed his QB play on numerous occasions last year [as recently as the Pro Bowl] would be a good thing for a rookie QB's development. The team needs to revolve around Tannehill, not a receiver grilling him in the huddle to get him the ball constantly despite us being a WCO that's predicated upon spreading the ball around.

7. The perception of Ireland according to 3 NFL Head Coaches is NOT the perception that you try to make it seem.

8. Tannehill, Martin, Javorski Lane, Rishard Matthews, Egnew, Lamar Miller, Josh Samuda, Derek Shelby, Olivier Vernon, Kheeston Randall. That's 10 rookies that made the team, most of which have flashed some nice potential based on their draft/FA status. (Thigpen could almost be added to this list).

 

Probably will be. Too bad Vernon Carey put us in the position of desperately needing a RT more than a receiver.

 

Yeah, and it shows on the field.

 

I was very angry when he was available, we didn't draft him, and then he goes one pick later to the Jets. Knew we'd regret that one.

 

It's the GM's responsibility to acquire good talent for the coach. Honestly, I don't think you can judge Philbin by his record this year because it is just plain stupid to expect him to make chicken salad from the chicken **** he has to work with.

Ireland, IMO, has failed at his position. He has had some positives, no doubt, but lots of negatives too. His free agency record is less than stellar and the jury is definitely out there on his drafts. But after being here for so many years, it's inexcusable for him to be putting together a roster as crappy as ours is.

The product on the field speaks for itself.

 

Bottom line.

 

But PFF didn't rank them badly!

 

I know. That's why I said it.
Thank God we now have a RT with enough potential to lock that down for a while (along a franchise hopeful QB, stud LT, and stud C) so we can now spend our future high picks on fun stuff like pass rushers & receivers..... and perhaps a playmaking safety.

People think Ireland doesn't want a playmaking WR, but I think that's quite the opposite if you look at the list of receivers we've either drafted, signed, or brought in for a look the past 2 years. They might not be high profile playmakers but most of them are in more of the playmaker mold (Armstrong, Chad Johnson, Gates, Rishard Matthews, Braylon Edwards to name a few). The only reason it seems like he doesn't value the position is b/c he firmly sticks to his board and cares more about taking the best talent available rather than possibly reaching for a receiver who might be nothing more than a #3 or 4. A lot of fans mistakingly thought Mark Ingram would be a guy who could turn an NFL offense around, and that's the same mentality fans seem to have about us passing on a 2nd, 3rd, 4th round receiver.

 

no kidding what happened to our special teams....they are rock solid, laying licks and getting nice returns...me likey

 

Only in the minds of Ireland defenders is a team that has gone 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 and looks headed to worse this year chock full of talent.

It's either the coaches fault or Parcell's fault.

Tony's offense looked pretty creative to me yesterday...

 

Stephen hill is a better Wr than Martin is a RT. That's the point.

At worst they are roughly equal in their ability levels and Ireland chose the trench guy early, as he is want to do.

 

Irish is good at accumulating draft picks, but terrible at picking them.

There, I complimented him.


Sent from my iPhone

 

He's the new Anquan Boldin.

 

You guys can repeat all the "common sense" tough-talkin GOP style platitudes you want but it's still gross oversimplification of things that shouldn't be all that complicated or unreasonable to think harder about.

 

I don't know what they're looking at but I saw a team that was thoroughly overmatched.

A lot of fans will want to focus on the fact that the game was 3-3 until a surge of freaky turnovers broke the game open to 24-3. Personally, the baffling pheneomenon was the simple fact that until that run of turnovers, we were actually tied with them. There were a few of us watching the game and we couldn't believe it. The Texans seemed to be moving on us at will while the Dolphins looked overmatched on offense. The game already should have been slipping away before those turnovers.

Miami was one of only two teams not to score an offensive touchdown yesterday. The other was the Cleveland Browns. What do the two teams have in common? Rookie quarterbacks and almost zero pass catching weapons to help them.

 

Not to mention, Egnew, Miller and Matthews failed to even dress for the game, and all play positions of need (with the exception of perhaps Miller)

All you need to know about Ireland and the state of the Dolphins roster is this-we played and dressed waiver wire pickups like Armstrong, who has been with us less than a week, over guys we drafted and had been in the system for months.

What does that tell you?

Egenw is by far the biggest dissapointment here as he plays a position where we don't have great options and really need somebody of his skill set. and he can't even sniff the field, while guys like Mastrud play.

Not saying that Egnew won't develop, but a 3rd round pick at a position of weakness should be able to play right away. A top 100 pick should contribute

 

I think Holmgren udnerstands the current game but he just isn't a good GM. Wasn't really a good one in Seattle and it's moved to cleveland.

He would have done Cleveleand far more good by becoming the coach and letting Heckert have full control of personnell.

Not that it matters as Cleveland is likely to be blown up with a new owner in town. Somebody who will probably not make Steve ross's mistake.

 

WASHINGTON thought it was a prudent move to sign Pierre Garcon , a player that was available and has ties to south Florida , now some would say if you did decide to trade a hugely productive receiver you would look for a replacement such as ....oh say Pierre Garcon.

 

Peter Principle part deaux?

 

I'm not even sure what you're looking for at this point. You keep trying to send anyone who questions Ireland on a witch hunt for this "evidence" that he's a bad GM. But in reality the evidence manifests itself on the field every Sunday.

I believe you're the one who is grossly over-complicating it.

 

GOP style?

 

"Egnew should replace his production"

Someone typed that and hit a button on the internet that made it so that other people could see it. AND OTHER PEOPLE AGREED WITH IT.

 

Respectfully, if a mod/admin has to change the original thread title to try and not make it seem like a rant, then that in and of itself should qualify it as a rant. He shouldn't be able to change the title after the fact just to keep it in the main forum.

If an objective, fact based Ireland thread can be moved to the Rant forum, then I certainly hope the site maintains enough integrity to move an opinionated "fire Jeff Ireland" thread there as well, especially considering the extent that the opening poster has already rantingly expressed his animosity toward Ireland and disrespect toward posters who don't share his same view point.

Anyone who conveniently reduces the supporters of Ireland not being fired to being "apologists", "Ireland Kool Aid drinkers", and "Ireland Fan Club members" should not have the privilege of posting a Fire Jeff Ireland thread anywhere but in the rant forum. Fair is fair.

 

Let's just say he isn't a "bad" GM , but if he isn't a good one let alone better than that , is that not a reason to make a change?

Is an ok GM what is needed to win a Super Bowl? Is a losing record , continuously a reason to be retained?

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but I do think Richardson is a special talent and with the enw rookie cap, where you could literally use him up for 5 seasons and then elt him go while having paid a relative pittance I can't fault it too much.

But if the plan was to pick Weeden at the back end all along, why not take Blackmon and putt hat crew back together? Peyton hillis would certainly be serviceable on that team

 

What happened was a few people here saw Moneyball and the scene where Brad Pitt talks about replacing Giambi's production with 3 guys and thought that the same could happen here. Honest mistake on their part(s).

 

I disagree on Egnew. He was made to look much worse than he really is by the Hard Knocks editors. If there were no Hard Knocks this season, and the only thing people had to go on with Egnew were isolation videos of his playing time in preseason, people would be optimistic about him and actively wondering why the Dolphins won't activate him on game day. I'm not overstating that, I consider it a simple fact. About 99% of fans would not even be able to figure out which play Egnew supposedly "loafed" on in his blocking for a fellow ball carrier, even if they were told that such a play existed. I don't even think Egnew committed much, if any, a crime on that particular play. I think Dan Campbell was just trying to light a fire under his *** to see what happens. Sure enough he goes back out there and lights a guy up in blocking on another play.

That play Egnew made against Tampa where he caught the tipped pass for 30+ yards was literally one of the biggest plays any rookie TE made in all preseason. He had two drops. That's it. Two drops. Hard Knocks made it look like more than that, but it was a case of magical editing. People still swear they saw a series of four drops in preseason but that's simply because that was the 'feel' that Hard Knocks was going for. But those that pay attention to details saw that one play Tannehill overthrew him by a country mile (even though it was a short pass, very mind boggling, Locker-like), and another play the linebacker stuck his hand out and knocked down a poorly placed pass.

And that's not even accounting for some of the pretty incredible (compared with his college tape) progress I saw him make in those preseason games with blocking. By the Dallas game, he was actually pancaking people in blocking. No lie. He had several pancake blocks this preseason, at least 5 or 6. They don't get featured on Hard Knocks, so from a fan perspective, they didn't happen.

The guy does not quite know what he's doing yet. He's playing a role he's never played. He's making progress and he's flashed his potential. He has also had some frustrating plays in preseason. He is a rookie. Whether he's out there active or not is merely a function of the fact that they believe Charles Clay to be a better player at the moment, whereas clearly Mastrud is a blocking specialist. However, when it came to keep/cut time, there was much more debate about whether to keep/cut Mastrud than Egnew.