The Trenches: The Dolphins are a Very Talented Team

While you are making your typical sarcastic comments, you chose to overlook the fact that last year our top 3 WRs were Marshall, Hartline, and Bess, while this year our top 3 WRs are Hartline, Bess and Naanee. We went from 3 viable receiving threats at the top of the depth chart to two, and one who is worthless as **** on a boar hog. The best anyone has said about him was he's made a couple of nice blocks. If that picture of the position doesn't bother you, it looks like a prime example of blind loyalty to me.

 

So you're saying that >50% of 3rd round picks play? That top-100 picks contribute X at Y point in time?

 

You are too angry to debate this, or have serious comprehension issues. (Hint: my example was to show how ridiculous that 5-2 with a poor Marshall performance stat was)

I am beginning to think that you have a personal issue with me. Did I do something to you and I don't know about it?

 

That's considerably different than what you started this tangent with:

You started this by saying since Egnew hasn't been on the field yet he is a bad pick (or bust which is another name for a bad pick).

 

That if you're picking in the Top 100 you ought to reasonably be able to find someone who can contribute in some way to your team right away or reasonably early, particularly if you have a need at that position.

 

Puhleaze.

If you wanted to show the folly of the stats there were ways to do it that weren't ridiculous like the route you chose.

 

Might have actually scored more than 3 points against Houston before the turnovers started, whcih could have kept the game reasonably close.

What si this argument that more talent is a bad thing? I don't get it.

 

And yet that is statistically not true.

 

Maybe our ability to play from behind in the Houston game would've been a little more effective?

Plus, I forsee it as hurting this team in our upcoming 14 games. Do you not?

 

The Dolphins were 9-6 in games where Dan Marino threw for 400 yards.

 

So it was a net positive. Thanks for proving our point.

 

That you say it was "ridiculous" convinces me more of it's brilliance.

 

Hint: His win% was higher in non 400 yard games.

 

Well, with stellar evidence like that no wonder you hold the stances you do.

 

It would absolutely be a double standard, unfortunately that's not at all what I'm saying.

I've got no problems with people using two games to judge Jake Long's performance. I didn't say that. What I did say is that people are incorrectly judging his performance.

 

Simple really. Whatever you say, the opposite is most likely true. Just a tie breaker to use in some instances, not all.

 

And?

When we used Marshall more we barely won at all. What's your point?

 

You can act like it's ridiculous, or you can go actually look at how this stuff works. If you go look up where top players are credited with giving stuff up, it's pretty frequently surprising circumstances.

 

That's fine. But I see nothing wrong with discussing these things on a message board.

And Its not like me or other posters are making these baseless or outlandish predictions here that some of your posts are making them seem to be.

I think Jeff Ireland thought he was replacing the production lost at WR with a guy like Nannee or Chad Johnson. He was being proactive. Unfortunately, those guys have been failures so far. I believe, with Nannee's preseason failures and Johnson's release, he should be actively pursuing a replacement

 

The point is that individual performances as they correlate to winning is a silly thing to use as evidence of anything.

 

I agree with that. But as a practical thing, I can excuse Jake Long giving up "stuff" versus the very best opponents. I expect him to erase inferior ones.

 

The interesting part about the Marshall debate is that in theory the team is better with him than without him. However looking at every statistic it looks like Miami is better without him than with him.

This is why I am completely fine with the Marshall trade. I have yet to see any statistical data that backs up the fact the team is better with him. I have seen data that shows Miami wins more, offense produces more and scores more without him than with him.

However, that being said I do think it would be nice if Miami's third wide receiver was not a cast off from the Redskins or a flag football player who with two games his best play has been on special teams. I honestly think Miami would be better off having Hartline and Bess on the outside with Thigpen in the slot than Naanee.

What I also find interesting is that through two games the theory of Miami's running game needs Marshall to take the safety out of the box to be successful is proving to be not true. It may prove true in the long run, however it is not looking good at this moment in time.

 

And I'm telling you that it isn't realistic. That's not how it works in general, that's not how it works with Long. Some of his worst games(besides the Julius Pepper game the week he dislocated his shoulder) he's had issues with guys ike James Hall, James Ninkovich, and Kroy Bierman. I could do the same thing with every other elite tackle.

 

Finally. That was like pulling teeth. I don't know why you had to go the long way to get this point.

Now...if that's the case, then why is everyone so upset with not having a Marshall or Marshall type receiver, its obviously not going to affect our win-loss column.

 

One more time: I AGREE WITH YOU. Just talking about the expectation.

 

Given the choice of good players populating our WR corp. or bad ones, I'll take good ones.

 

Marshall played in 30 games in his two seasons in Miami. He played 14 games in 2010. The team was 6-8 in those games. Trying to make a connection between how many receptions he had between wins and losses such as the stats previously given, doesn't give anywhere near a complete picture of why the team lost each particular game. In those 8 losses he was part of in 2010, he had 5 or more catches in 6 of them. In the other two losses, he had 3 and 1. In the 6 wins, he had 4 or more catches in 4 of them. None of that tells us why the team won or lost though, in of itself. Trying to say that Marshall having increased production causes the team to be more likely to lose seems misguided to me.
Last year in the 10 losses, he never had less than 4 catches. In the 6 wins he had 4 or more catches 4 times. In the other two wins he had 1 and 3 catches. In the game with 3 catches though, he averaged 28 yards per catch and had 1 TD.

 

Well, this IS game TWO of the season, and he does have a dinged up knee. I can't help but think that all of this discussion might best wait until the end of the season and see what Long's play will have been over the rest of the 14 games (in the regular season!) Right now seems just a teensy weensy bit premature..

 

We all would.

The point is that we've been told by many that the team is hamstrung by not having Marshall.

Now the truth is finally out that either WR is not an indicator of a team's success or the evidence shows Marshall actually hurt the team.

 

This! Exactly! Anyone should be able to see and comprehend this unless they just wish to be intentionally obtuse.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Matthews will emerge at some point this season. That we need to count on it though shouldn't have been made necessary. It should be a bonus when a low round WR emerges with significant contribution as a rookie.

 

Before him our offense was worse in things like yards and points. Whether he caused it or not isn't the point, the point is he didn't obviously make us better.

 

On the Joseph interception, the pass was intended for Naanee, who made a poor effort to the ball when Joseph closed on him. A good receiver there very likely either stays in front of Joseph or at least prevents him from getting the int.
IF, Ireland has signed someone like Meachem, Garcon or Manningham instead, they'd have most likely remained on the field for more than the few snaps Naanee played and given Tannehill another viable receiving target.

 

This is dangerously close to starting yet another circular debate.

So I will just say that I disagree.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone is fearing that it will hurt the team throughout the season.

And as I said, I think Jeff Ireland feared it too, which is why he chose to pursue Chad Johnson and Legadu Nannee in the first place.

 

In a perfect world perhaps that is true. Like I tried to show you, even Green Bay had a similar situation with Finley as a rookie. Top 100 pick, who played only 88 snaps and had 6 catches, while playing behind worse tight ends than are ahead of Egnew here now with Miami.
Sometimes it takes these kids a while for the light to come on. Right now is far too soon to be hitting the panic button on Egnew. Martin stepped into an open position, since last year's RT was gone. He struggled badly all during preseason. The past two games though, he has shown noticeable improvement, IMO.
Egnew though, plays a position with a solidly entrenched starter who is probably one of the top ten all around TEs in the league, blocking and receiving combined. The #2, Clay, performed well as rookie in spurts. There was no need to force feed Egnew like there was with Martin. If there was no Fasano, and Egnew were just forced to sink or swim as a starter from day 1 of camp, he may have had more of a chance to show some development.