With Chris Clemons still being a major question mark, I wonder if they'll move Marshall back to safety next season and add another corner or two to go with Sean Smith (assuming we re-sign him), and Carroll.
Yes. I think Marshall provides a significant increase in chances of creating big plays to Chris Clemons.
Not in the grand scheme of things, no, it doesn't. Like every other aspect about him, Davis had nice upside that was never fulfilled. He'd just as likely **** up in run defense as make a good play. I don't care about what he's done on other teams, what I care about is Miami. He's playing pretty reasonably for a #2 corner statistically.
It at least gives Irish greater flexibility in next yr's draft. I doubt we go Wr with the first pick. I see Irish drafting BPA at pass rush DE, Corner or safety unless there's another player that just falls into our lap like Decastro and the Steelers. I doubt he gambles on another head case like Vontae. The irony is Philbin & Co place a GREATER value on character than Irish.
I'd be happy if we go BPA at WR/Free Safety. I was thinking DE in the first...but I would like to see how Vernon finishes the season. Think this coaching staff might not be willing to try Marshall at FS. Which means Ireland could have to eat his signing bonus. Luckily his signing bonus wasn't too huge ($6 million). Not sure they would pay that just to keep Marshall at Nickel. Hate to say it but I could see FA money or a 2nd rounder pick (after WR/FS dealt with) going for OL. This coaching staff still wants to find their guys on that OL and I could see us looking at finding competition to replace Incog or Jerry or both. If Egnew doesn't start playing after the bye and showing something.......then were probably looking at a high TE again. This team has got to find a seam threat to match with Fasano. In the 4th and later I could bring in CB depth.
I don't know if there's really anything "BPA" about it if you're down to two positions. The Dolphins are in a really good position to double down and go heavy on true "BPA" picks. They have pretty much no areas that you could classify as dumpster fires(which is a bit of a rarity), and a lot of positions of perceived need that they could justify finding competition for young players rather than replacements. The roster has gotten to the point where you can stop reacting to potential disasters and start acting like the elite drafting teams do. The Dolphins should be picking the best player regardless of position at this point unless there's a real justification that you cannot put them on the field(a second quarterback, for example). Interior linemen, runningbacks, non-rush linebackers, etc. shouldn't be off the table even with the 1st round pick.
I'd take the following positions off the table in the first 2 rounds: Tackle, Center, QB And I'd probably consider lifting RB also. I feel very strongly in my position in regards to RB and how drafting them in the top 2 rounds is a waste of resources. BPA not at those positions with our first picks and I'd be satisfied. I'd avoid Guard in the first round also.
Carroll has played better this season, so far. I questioned why he was even on the team the last few years, because I just didn't think he was effective at all. He has certainly been an upgrade over Marshall, who seems totally out of place as a starting CB in the NFL. In fact with a salary over five million dollars for 2013, I doubt if Marshall will even be on the roster next year. My view is that the secondary still needs to be upgraded. A dominant play making safety to replace a very ordinary Clemons and a shut down CB to complement Smith would drastically improve the secondary. Carroll could remain the nickle back. Upgrading these two position and adding another dominant pass rusher,opposite Wake, would make the Dolphins a true force on the defensive side of the ball. With five picks in the top 100 in next years draft and millions of dollars in free agency. The Dolphins should be able to upgrade these positions, as well as WR and TE, on the offensive side of the line. Whether it is Ireland or another Dolphin GM selecting the players, this coming off season will be the most important draft and free agency period in decades for this organization.
Marshall must be the new fan whipping boy bc the overall opinion of his play is laughably off the mark. I won't go into detail about it but I guarantee he'll have his job back once he's healthy. Then we can talk about how clueless the coaches are for putting such an inferior player back in the lineup.
I am not sure what you are seeing in Marshall that I'm not seeing. He is certainly no shut down corner and it appeared that the majority of the passes thrown to the receiver he has been covering have been completed. The Dolphins are the third team Marshall has played for in the last six years. He previously played for the Panthers and the Cardinals. Neither of these teams have quality secondaries, yet they felt that Marshall was not worth the money to sign him, once he became a free agent. If he was being paid around one million a year, he may be worth the price. Next year he is scheduled to be paid over five million dollars against the cap. I just don't see the Dolphins paying him that amount of money, when he is no better than a nickle CB on this roster. Whether or not he gets his starting job back once he is able to play again is actually irrelevant to me. To me this entire season is about getting Tannehill and the rest of the team the experience needed, so they can be a legitimate playoff contender in 2013. Hopefully by next year the Dolphins will have upgraded their secondary and Marshall will have either taken a huge pay cut to stay with the Dolphins or be playing somewhere else. He may be okay as a nickle or dime CB, but he is not a quality starting CB in the NFL, IMO.
To even suggest from a talent standpoint that either Carroll or Marshall is an upgrade over Davis is absurdly laughable to me. They should have put Marshall at FS, as CK suggested they would right after he was signed, and kept Davis to play corner.
That reminds me of this scene from "The Jerk". [video=youtube;aUQkbXWwJhQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQkbXWwJhQ[/video]
Talent standpoint? No, they don't. Actual on the field product? That's not the least bit absurd. We're rapidly reaching the point where continuing to hold a candle for Vontae Davis to capitalize on his physical talents is ridiculous. We're not quite there yet, but you can't trade a player for a second once you've reached that point either.
You know, before this season started, I would have considered "Nolan Carroll Developing" quite the oxymoron. Maybe his dreads were weighing him down and also preventing him from turning his head in coverage.
Vontae Davis has the physical talents that Carroll and Marshall dream of. AND hes made use of those physical talents. I dont know why people ignore that.
Marshall and Caroll both have good athleticism so I'm not sure other than skill where the advantage lies. That said Miami has done a great job at getting the most out of talent the talent it has, moving Marshall and having him excel at free safety would really take the defense to another level.
I'd prefer to look at their long term performance rather than just the last couple of games, but if you look at the PFF coverage rating for each of their last two games played, we see Carroll has a combined +1.3, Marshall has a combined +1.5, and Davis has a combined +2.9.
That's a fairly narrow view of whether a CB is doing well or not. I didn't watch him in either place, but he was voted defensive MVP by his teammates in Arizona, which suggests he was doing something right. His contract implies that he is a solid, #2 caliber CB. That's what he looks like to me. The statement in bold would be better applied to Vontae Davis. He was the nickel, having lost his job to Marshall, and he was due for a major raise either next year or the year after. Ireland decided he didn't want to invest in him long term and when the Colts offered the 2nd round pick he took it. How is it not relevant? Whether he gets his job back speaks to what the coaches think of him, and if Carroll was clearly an upgrade as you said, then why would Marshall get his job back? Keep in mind that Marshall was hurt in the first half of the Oakland game and played through it for 2 weeks before being taken out of the lineup. I never hear that brought up when people are talking about what Santonio Holmes did vs him, nor does anyone mention what Andre Johnson did (not) do vs him. I agree that he doesn't have shut down CB capability, but hardly anyone does. He can play man or zone, he can hit, he can run with most WR's, he's a capable starter at two important positions, a solid locker room guy, and most of all he's consistent. He doesn't have embarrassing lapses on the field, he doesn't show up for camp out of shape (and proceed to get hurt) two years straight, while making jokes about it to his teammates and taking bathroom breaks to avoid practicing, nor does he come to practice late and hungover. I'm in the minority but I like the guy.
I don't think anyone is ignoring his talents. It's also hard to ignore his lack of dedication, work ethic, and maturity. That's why he lasted until the 25th pick in the first place IMO.
If you aint cheatin' then u aint tryin' I'd love to see SSmith and Marshall get more holding/illegal contact penalties a la Surtain/Madison/Buckley. Push the envelope and see how much you can get away with. PI is another story, one of the things I dont like about Carroll is that he never turns to find the ball, in the NFL that's basically asking to get flagged.
I mentioned the two most recent games for each, because you said "as of now they are both outplaying him." I thought that would come closest to "as of now".
Ok, I'll play the game however you want to define the present tense. For this entire season, week 1 through week 7, Davis' overall rating as per PFF, in 250 snaps is -1.5. Marshall's overall rating for the season in 241 snaps is -2.7, and Carroll's overall rating, also in 250 snaps, is -3.6. So, as of now, neither Marshall or Carroll is outplaying Davis.
He still has a higher QB rating when thrown to. More than double on Caroll. He did have a nice game against Cleveland, though. We'll see how he finishes out the season.
Passer rating does not take into consideration the times when a DB has such good coverage that a pass is not even attempted to the man they are covering. That is why the PFF coverage rating does not always jibe exactly with passer rating allowed, or pct completions allowed.
It's still high as ****, though. That's not something you just toss aside. It's 140. That's still higher than Marshall's and Caroll's.
He apparently is doing something right in pass coverage to earn ratings from PFF of 1.4, 1.5 and 1.3 the last 3 games, unless we are to believe their ratings are not objective, in which case all their ratings on every player would need to be disregarded. Carroll has one game of 6 so far with a positive PFF rating in coverage. Marshall has positive ratings in 2 of 4 games so far. Davis has been positive in 3 of 4 games so far.
It's certainly enough to question their ratings. That's not the only example either. I don't really buy into their ratings to begin with, so this doesn't help. The only reason I have the subscription to is for the in depth stats. And as of now, Davis has a 140+ QB rating when thrown to compared to 71.6 for Carrol and 101 for Marshall.
I'm not going to question their ratings unless I want to take the time to go back and watch every play that Davis, Carroll and Marshall played using the all 22 view that game pass offers. Your original comment that as of now Carroll and Marshall are outplaying Davis is something we'll just have to agree to disagree on I suppose. I will concede that Davis' first game this season was worse than any single game that Marshall or Carroll has played this season, but that is all. He is playing on a much weaker overall defense than what Miami has, so that does not necessarily mean that had he remained in Miami that his results would have been the same.
I agree with the bold. We'll see how the season plays out. That way we can determine if Davis out plays Marshall and Carrol, and if he was worth the 2nd round offer.
