will hartline and bess get to 1000 yards this year???

There is a pretty good chance they both do. Averaging what they have through 11 games this season gets them both there.

It's a pity that yardage only counts like 75% of what a receiver who runs a < 4.40 taken in the 1st round would achieve, though.

 

Back in 2008, Greg Camarillo averaged over 55 yards receiving per game...which put him on pace for about 900 yards if he'd not been hurt for 5 games. We'll see where Bess and Hartline are at by the end of the year but that kind of production didn't mean that Greg Camarillo was any more than a #4 wide receiver on other teams when he left the Dolphins. Just keep that in mind.

The Dolphins are throwing the football about 32 times a game and their #3 wide receiver is non-existent. Literally, from a snap count perspective the leading #3 wide receiver is still Legedu Naanee who hasn't been on the roster in two months. Everyone knows Anthony Fasano is not exactly an Antonio Gates, and up until probably this game Charles Clay had been a big fat disappointment this year. The ball's got to go somewhere when you're throwing it 32 times a game.

I know I sound like a broken record. I like Davone Bess and I like Brian Hartline. But I think you have one or the other, not both, and there need to be two better players at the position than them ideally speaking. Davone Bess had an excellent football game. Yet, on that deep pass Tannehill threw to him off play-action, if Davone had legit athleticism and speed that's a 57 yard touchdown, not a 39 yard pass. And you know how that drive ended? Yes, it ended with a touchdown run by Daniel Thomas. But before that, it REALLY ended with an awful looking interception thrown by Ryan Tannehill across his body into the end zone. A bull **** roughing the passer penalty (let's call that penalty for what it was, it was bull ****) gave us a second go at the touchdown and we capitalized. Without the bogus penalty we lose the game. But before we lost the game by throwing the stupid interception, we lost the game because our go-to wide receiver doesn't have the athleticism you need in a real go-to wide receiver and he turned a tecmo open 57 yard touchdown into a 39 yard awkward turn and grab, lose balance and go out of bounds play.

We won the game but there's clearly work to be done on this roster.

 

Same concept in basketball.

Somebody is going to score 20 points a game for the Wizards. That fact alone doesn't make that player any good

 

How would we have lost the game on that interception? It would have been 14-7. Even right after the TD to tie, we let up a KR for TD which put us down by 7 once again. I'm not saying we would have won if that INT counted, but it's not like it was a game clincher either.

 

That's a pretty good way to trivialize the opposition. Good job.

 

So, I'm clear, Brandon Marshall gets 1200 yrds while no one else comes close on the team, and that is a great thing and we are stupid for getting rid of him.....

.....but Hartline & Bess are both on the verge of 1000 yrd seasons and that's just nothing important/irrelevant/not a big deal?

Sigh.

 

The concept holds no water if the players are producing efficiently. We aren't talking about guys producing out of sheer volume here.

 

I love how that penalty is b.s. when it is called every time

 

Earl Thomas took his forearm to Tannehill's neck/head. That was a 100% legitimate penalty.

 

The penalty was rubbish but we were owed a call after the Seabags scored on a drive where they committed two clear as day holdings and a text book offensive pass interference.

 

The issue with the penalty is that penalties are (and should be) called regardless of the consequences that ensue. The fact that the penalty negated an interception and gave us a chance to tie the game doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty. It was just as much a penalty as if the throw would've resulted in a meaningless incompletion on our own 20 yard line, in a game that had already been decided by a blowout either way.

 

You say that however it will always be called.

 

Its also a shame that games are won by making plays in the red zone/scoring points and not piling up yards between the 20s.

 

Unless you have a killer defense or a great run game, the red zone won't be there very often. Trying to call those "don't matter" stats is just silly.

 

well, yea, however they don't count when it comes to penalties

 

jeez, Negative Nancy!!

 

I agree with you and I said that when we did have Brandon Marshall. The gripe back then wasn't the WRs unit.

However, let me ask you this. Where are you going to find A.J. Green? Where are you going to find Vincent Jackson? Do you see Keenan Allen as an immediate impact guy like A.J Green? Do you see Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe or Mike Wallace as immediate impact guys like Vincent Jackson?

The answer is no. I don't think you can expect that and even if you draft it in a Keenan Allen you're not expecting even close to that right away. So let's say you do draft a guy like Keenan Allen and in his first year we get more of the same crap we're seeing from all the rookies at all the other skill positions (ex-Tannehill) which is to say frustrated lack of progress because the system is either too complicated or our coaches' standards are too high for rookies, and short story short Keenan Allen is just the #3 WR to Davone Bess and Brian Hartline. Then how much immediate change have you really offered to a unit begging for immediate change?

Unless you're grabbing yourself a truly high impact guy, and maybe you think Mike Wallace is that guy I don't know but I certainly don't think it likely Miami pays for him, then you're better off changing the makeup of the unit in my opinion. Keep a security blanket like Davones Bess or Brian Hartline for Ryan Tannehill's sake but transplant more explosive players into the mix, even if they're not better overall. Change the makeup of the unit and I think you score more touchdowns.

 

Not quite so, if one thinks about if only one player can score 20 pts it is easier to defend them to keep them from scoring 20 pts.

Hartline is a virtual lock for 1k yds, Bess has a longer road to go, iirc he is effective vs the patriots

 

Thing with that is he also had by far the most targets on the offense, our offense tries to spread the ball around which makes achieving this more meaningful if it is reached.

 

I'm not sure any improvement is going to come from one player, and I'm not sure that is how they want to approach it either.

The most likely scenario isn't one player coming to save the team. It will have to come from guys like Charles Clay, Rishard Mathews, Michael Egnew, etc.

 

Yeah, you do sound like a broken record. Not that you say the same thing over and over, you just say stuff that's wrong.

There was one point I can agree with in there so I'll start there: we need a #1 and a #2 WR. Bess and Hartline shouldn't be on the field together unless we're in a 4 wide formation. I hate to pick on Hartline, he's an ideal complimentary/depth guy but I think he's the first target for upgrade on the offensive side of the ball.

Here's where the record skips a beat though. The roughing call was legit, maybe not a fine worthy hit, but a defender leaving his feet and crashing into the head of the QB is the type of call that is pretty much routine these days. And let's not talk about how many holding calls the Seahawks got away with. We've been getting duked, with no vaseline, by the refs for most of the year so I don't want to hear any namby pamby excuses about how we got a break. Either way, the INT comes with what, 8 mins left in the 4th quarter, not 8 seconds. There's no way you can say that's a game losing play, we'd have still been down 7 with a chance to come back. Seattle wasn't exactly lighting it up on offense, their best run plays were all QB scrambles and KO returns, and defensively they made our offense look much better than they really were, especially in the 2nd half. Assuming a loss if the Tanne INT stood is dubious to say the least.

OTOH I HATE when Davone Bess jumps in the air for no apparent reason to make a catch, the **** is mind numbingly ******ed. Catch the damn ball and go score a TD, please. He's done it his whole career so I don't expect it to stop. (not so) Funny thing is, when he does need to go up and play the ball high, like when Jairus Byrd was taking his lunch money last week, he doesn't go for up the ball at all. Hartline does the same, except he just falls down after the catch, he cost us a TD at the end of the first Jets game with that crap. It's like they don't know that you get points for scoring TD's.

I don't disagree with the overall point, but saying the roster needs more work is like saying the sky is blue. We've got NE-San Fran coming up so you'll have plenty of time to talk about how bad we suck over the next few weeks. But for now, can you just post happy about a win? .

 

Uh, never said they don't matter. I said they don't win games. Most teams would rather give up a few completions between the 20's, as opposed to squatting, jumping routes, and risking a big play behind their secondary. Bess and Hartline look like viable targets when defenses are doing that. It's when the field condenses and defenses are no longer willing to concede the shorter throws that they tend to get exposed.

I'd like to have some WRs who make plays in the condensed area and overcome soft coverage to make big plays when the field isn't condensed. I wrote to Santa and everything.

 

What skills are conducive to getting yards between the 20s?

 

I view our team like a game of Tetris.

This season we were stacking the blocks, so next offseason we can get a run of straight line blocks. We may have even gotten a couple straight line blocks that we turned horizontal, because we weren't ready for them yet.

Don't know if that correlation makes sense to anyone but me....probably not, lol.

 

Good analogy. And before the season began, there was the purposeful tipping over of the structure of blocks that had accumulated previously, that was teetering on the edge of falling down on its own anyway, with the aim of creating a new "ground zero."

 

Uh, never said they don't matter. I said they don't win games. Most teams would rather give up a few completions between the 20's, as opposed to squatting, jumping routes, and risking a big play behind their secondary. Bess and Hartline look like viable targets when defenses are doing that. It's when the field condenses and defenses are no longer willing to concede the shorter throws that they tend to get exposed.

I'd like to have some WRs who make plays in the condensed area and overcome soft coverage to make big plays when the field isn't condensed. I wrote to Santa and everything.

 

uh except they do win games. If you admit they do matter, then in what way do they not win games?

 

It makes sense, but I'm not sure I agree with it.

I think its generally a bad idea to view the process as one with a beginning or a conclusion, or some type of linear progression. I think its more about consistency and discipline.

I don't think you can say "hey we need to get x,y,z this season; then a,b,c the season after". I think such a process is inherently inefficient. Rather, every year you need to make a set of decisions based on factors that are inherently part of the team's philosophy. You go for consistent returns year after year. Hopefully at some point you hit the jackpot one offseason that will net you a higher than average return.

 

uhh back to the point of this thread, i think they'll both get there barring injury...

Bess is more consistent so i think he'll def get there, and Hartline is just 200 yards away so he should be able to average 40 yards the rest of the way... one decent Hartline game where he hits 100 yards cause of a deep ball should be coming up anyway...

 

FTR, my analogy is not setting up an endgame. A game of Tetris isn't over by clearing rows.

Of course the process has a beginning though.

Its not necessarily about we get these players this season and those players next season. Its more about laying the foundation or building up the rows...so to speak.

 

Right, but what does the clearing of rows represent here? What is the strategy of waiting to clear rows speaking to?

 

I think if you did a study on it, you'd find that the vast majority of scoring across the NFL in situations like those comes from the running game, passes to the tight ends over the middle of the field, and passes to backs in the flats.

There may be only a handful of receivers in the league who have the physical characteristics to overcome what you mentioned regarding how the field is condensed, and I suspect only the teams with those particular receivers buck this trend to any significant degree.

So if that's true, then the task IMO becomes getting better receiving targets at tight end and fullback (or using them more), rather than trying to pull off the improbable and landing one of those handful of ultra-special receivers.

 

In Tetris, the point of the game is to get lots of points by clearing rows. To that end you have to forgo clearing rows and scoring points immediately to build up the rows to get bigger points.

The analogy is that we are building a foundation. We got rid of Marshall, we got rid of Vontae, because the pay off will be greater to add back in players like that later when the rows are built up.

 

Right, so how is that potentially put in practice by the Dolphins?

 

Exactly! The name has become more important than the production apparently.