Just watched Luck finish a comeback. 4TDs with game winning drive with a minute left... and it made me think about how many people are saying our offense's problems are due to a rookie QB. Bull ****. There are rookie QB's who are outperforming Tannehill on a weekly basis. So the question is, is OUR rookie QB underperforming relative to the class of rookies? I think so, despite Ryan being decent. Here are the stats, including today's games. Judge for yourself. HOU 20/36 219 yds 0 TDs 3 INTs 39 QBR - Bad OAK 13/29 200 yds 1 TDs 0 INTs 91 QBR - Good NYJ 16/36 196 yds 0 TDs 1 INTs 50 QBR - Bad ARI 26/41 431 yds 1 TDs 2 INTs 86 QBR - Good CIN 17/26 223 yds 0 TDs 0 INTs 92 QBR - Good STL 21/29 185 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs 112 QBR - Good NYJ 2/5 18 yds 0 TDs 0 INTs 50 QBR - Bad IND 22/38 290 yds 1 TDs 0 INTs 91 QBR - Good TEN 23/39 217 yds 0 TDs 3 INTs 42 QBR - Bad BUF 14/28 141 yds 1 TDs 2 INTs 47 QBR - Bad SEA 18/26 253 yds 1 TDs 1 INTs 97 QBR - Good NE 13/29 186 yds 0 TDs 0 INTs 66 QBR - Bad ------------------------------------------------- Total - 205/362 yds 7 Tds 12 Ints 71 QBR 6 Bad Games. 6 Good Games. TD% 1.9% That's an average rookie, to a T. Meanwhile... Andrew Luck 279/503 3,596 yds 17 TDs 16 INTs 76 QBR 3 Bad Games. 4 Average Games. 5 Good Games. TD% 3.3% RGIII (not including this week's game) 205/304 2,497 yds 16 TDs 4 INTs QBR 104 0 Bad Games. 2 Average Games. 9 Good Games. TD% 5.2% Russell Wilson 201/317 2,344 yds 19 TDs 8 INTs QBR 95 3 Bad Games. 9 Good Games. TD% 5.9% So I don't buy the 'he's a rookie QB' arguement relative to producing TDs. The most damning stat there is the TD%. Tannehill is far far lower than the others. Is it because of his WRs? Some would argue so. Wilson has Rice and Tate, with Zach Miller at TE. RGIII has Garcon, Morgan and Santana Moss with Logan Paulson at TE. Luck has Reggie Wayne and Donnie Avery, with Fleener at TE. Tannehill has Hartline and Bess with Fasano at TE. Or is it the playcalling that's leading to issues? And what about Ryan's Jekyl and Hyde inconsistency from game to game? Where the other QBs appear to be fairly consistent, Ryan swings between extremes on any given day. Is that a function of Ryan, or is it the running game? To some degree, if Tannehill were a superior enough talent, he could overcome some of those variables. If the running game didn't show up, he'd still be capable of performing at a high level. The fact that he seems so susceptible to all the variables around him needing to be right makes me think he is a marginally good talent, but not a standout talent. Not destined for a multiple Pro Bowls. When I look at these stats I feel (maybe wrongly): 1) We have a QB qho could be the 10th-12th best QB in the league for us, but even then, he is inconsistent game-to-game. 2) Te 'rookie excuse' is only a problem for your team when your particular rookie QB also lacks the ability to put the ball in the endzone. Luck may be a rookie, and may have a QBR in the 70's but he scores. Often. In two games he can put up what takes Tannehill 12 games. So, what do you think? Is it Tannehill? Is it the receiving talent? Is it Sherman's playcalling? Is it a combination of all of the above? Becvause what it is NOT clearly entirely blamable on, is that Ryan Tannehill is "just a rookie".
It's a combination. I hope no one here expected Tannehill to come in and play better than Luck and RG3 though. I'm still not worried. My expectations were probably lower than most, though.
Well there was a reason why so many people wanted to Suck for Luck last year. Of course they were shouted down by the "real" Dolphins fans.
That said, I still think Tannehill can be a very good talent. He just needs playmakers around him. Something that Ireland just hasn't done. You can prop that man up as much as you want, he has let down Tannehill and Philbin and ruined any chance for a winning season.
He's having accuracy issues. In an offense that stresses accuracy he hasn't met the high standard yet. It's slightly over thrown, under thrown, too far behind the receiver etc. He needs a good offseason to improve his accuracy.
No he isn't, which is why it was all the more important for Ireland to help him as much as possible. And yet one more season, he let his team down by not acquiring enough talent. This season comes down to one thing, not enough talent on the team, and one person has been the constant since 2008 in acquiring said talent. He just hasn't done a good enough job.
He's not far behind them and has nearly as much upside as Griffin IMO....... but unfortunately he has less of a surrounding cast to work with.
RGIII must have one helluva surrounding cast. His QB rating is 30 points higher than Tannehill's, and the Redskins are 5-6.
This thread bothers me persnally.. Plan a...try to forget about Luck ASAP, and get rid of the thought that you were pretty close to the best prospect ever, who was easy to project to be worth the hype..of course denied...well played Jim Irsay, most don't realize how you did it, but I know how you did it....smart bastard. Plan B...thank goodness, there was another player who had an elite skillset and was smart, and athletic, and sooo good...lotta of people did'nt think he was worth it..a few of us did....denied. Plan c..draft Luke Kuechly and Russell Wilson...thought process was Russell was a hidden star, I saw what I needed to see in his game, and it was a sure thing in my head, the value was tremendous, and the value I could get from both players becoming stars outweighed taking Tannehill at 8....denied. RTs struggling with his ability to recognize pressure with any sort of quickness, I don't see a sharpness in his Qb athleticism, it's a bit clumsy at this point..his reactionary Instints are slow relative to his athleticism...needs a good offseason training program..
Tannehill did a better job with less surrounding talent last weak to win it verse Seattle than Chicago did this weak with Cutler, Marshall, and company..... and he did so with an inferior home field advantage to boot. That's Tannehill's real upside potential, not an anomaly. He needs legitimate weapons at WR to make that type of performance more of a constancy.
I was disappointed today. He's played some good games (Seahawks, Cardinals, Jets II), and some very inaccurate games like today and against Buffalo and TN. Know he's a rookie, but I expect even a rookie to make at least one of those deep balls to a wide open Hartline. Hopeful that will be improved upon by next season, but nobody can fault Dolphins fans for being worried that it won't considering every QB since Marino. We saw some great games by Henne and then some wildly inaccurate ones, which he is still doing today.
Listen. Tannehill is a talented player. There's really no disputing that at all. He is a competitive guy, he is a smart guy, and he has the tools to be very good. Was he as prepared to step into the NFL as the other rookie QBs? No. Does he have to worst offensive talent around him of all the other rookie QBs? Yes. Does he need to improve? Yes. Will he ever be better than Luck? Probably not. Can he have just as successful a career as Luck? Absolutely yes. People continue to forget where we were with respects to Tannehill at the beginning of the season. We KNEW he would not be good. It was a given at the beginning, and part of the reason people (including myself) did not want the dolphins to draft him in the first round. The fact he played better than anticipated for a stretch gave people unrealistic expectations going forward. Bottom line was/is we knew this was a growing season for him. A learning season. If he's playing like this 3 years from now, you can complain. Now however, everything is as it should be. Get better talent though. This team is pathetic on offense.
He plays like he's in his head too much... I hate saying that because it's not a good road to start heading down. No pun intended. Clearly he will improve, and has upside. I was surprised, though, to see how inconsistent he is from game to game.
But there is no way to say Ryan missing Hartline today was the fault of the WRs. That's just straight up inconsistency on Ryan's part. I would rather see him string together 4 games at 78 QBR now than see one game with 89 QBR, then one with 59, then 91 then 64.
I continue to insist. The first deep throw was not a bad throw. A more athletic WR than Hartline catches that ball. If you throw a 50 yard pass in the air, and hit your WR in the fingertips without said WR diving for that ball, that is a decent throw. Was it perfect, no it was not. But Hartline running looked like someone tippy-toeing in a wet street so as not to splash water on himself.
LOL, posts like these always makes me laugh. The first deep throw was a bad pass. A more athletic WR than Hartline would have made for a more spectacular overthrow.
If this were Tannehill's first time playing with Hartline, I'd agree. By now, he knows his receivers.
Amen to part A & B. Part C, Wilson looks great for a rookie, but I honestly don't believe he has the same level of upside as Tannehill. They're a tier apart IMHO. I'd put Luck in the likely future HOF tier, and I'd put RG3 & Tannehill in the tier right below that, outstanding talent and the type of player who can be as good as the system and surrounding cast lets him be.
I couldn't believe how many times dolphin fans were sitting when they shouldn't of been..I know they can't trust anything at this point, but when your defense is one score down, as fans you've got to try and give them some energy on first down.. The chants of lets go patriots in the third was bad...don't think I've ever heard that before in an imposing stadium, not to that degree... Our team ran out of energy, or passion, or heart in the fourth quarter.. Dansby said earlier this week that if they lost, the season was over..
If there was no atypical "best looking rookie prospect of all time" + "possibly the most electric looking rookie QB of all time" playing this year, us and the entire NFL would be talking about Tannehill. Having an Andrew Luck & RG3 in the same rookie class is not an excuse to slight Tannehill's optimistic looking future. That's just silly. Drew Brees is the 3rd best QB behind Brady & Rodgers; does that make him chopped liver? If Tannehill becomes this decade's 3rd or 4th best QB behind Luck, RG3, and Stafford, does that make him and this team a failure? Hell no. With the aging Brady & Manning soon to be gone and RG3 & Stafford in the NFC, anything can happen in the AFC if we surround Tanny with talent and keep this defense better than Indy's.
He needs another WR on the other side. He hit Rishard Matthews once which showed that he can spread the ball around. If he had another good boundary WR there opposite Hartline who can consistently get open, Tannehill can be a much better QB.
It's hard to make an intelligent response out of the "oh look! I disagree with your opinion, let me laugh at it and answer it with mockery and sarcasm" type of comment. Much easier to just say OK and move on.
The second part wasn't mockery or sarcasm. Hartline was able to get a fingertip on the ball, while making a dive. Golden Tate would have been able to lay out more as the ball went too far. It was a poor throw. I laugh because I don't understand how anyone can make such an excuse. A receiver is WIDE open, the quarterback throws the ball too far. It is somehow the receivers fault.
I'm sorry, i fail to see where i mentioned it was the receivers fault. It was not a perfect throw, i said as much. I only expressed the fact that IMO, a better more athletic WR makes that catch. Reggie Wayne makes that catch.
Reggie Wayne might have done a better chance to make that catch, however it would have been exceedingly difficult. It was a poor throw. Calvin Johnson might have caught it.
In four of Seattles losses this year, Wilson has posted a 90 qbr or above in them.. I'm not giving up on Tannehill, I just want to see quicker reactions in the game...I know he has a long way to go..I just wished I'd seen better Qb movement.
I'm sorry but there is, Barry. You know I love ya but it's the truth. Was it an overthrow to Hartline? Yes. Would it be an overthrow to a starting flanker receiver who has a better top end speak than the poor top end speed Hartline? Yes. It's a catch in stride if the receiver doesn't have such an unimpressive rate of speed after the first 20+ yards as 4.5 speed isn't created equal. In Hartline's case, that 4.5 speed results from a quick start over the first 10 yards, followed by an ok 11-20 yards. If Hartline actually had good deep speed and could maintain his quick start, he'd actually be a low 4.4 guy (that's a fact). But that's not the case b/c he runs a 4.5, meaning the final 20 yards of his route are slow, meaning when when he's 25+ yards down field he's running at a slower pace..... where as true 4.5 vertical threats like Jon Balwin & Jordy Nelson are actually running at a faster rate of speed downfield enabling them to run under those passes despite having the same 4.5 time. It's simple math really; Let's say you have 2 receivers who run the same forty time. Receiver A runs a fast 10 yard split and decent 20; Receiver B runs a slow 10 yard split and an equal time from 11-20 yards. For them to run the same 4.5, that means receiver A is running at a slower rate (lower top end) from 21-40 while receiver B is gaining speed and running at a faster rate over the final 20 yards. Therefore, on a ball thrown vertically, receiver B will have a better chance at running under it despite posting a similar forty b/c his rate of speed downfield will be faster. There are a ton of receivers in the league who could've run under that pass in stide for an easy TD rather than requiring Tannehill to try and be more precise with it to Hartline, and it's plays like that with inferior WR talent that end up making your QB look like crap when other QBs see those routinely converted b/c their receiver can cover more ground after the first 20 yards.
Many WR would have a better chance to catch that ball. But the point is moot. The ball dropped, and there was no TD. Tannehill did play very poorly. This team's problem extend beyond the rookie QB. We can try to simplify it by laying all the blame on him, and claiming like many that Moore would have been better. Maybe so, but this team is not remotely good, specially evident on offense.
I think you are seeing the reality of a "raw" player. I think peoples expectations were so high that they are discouraged now. The reality is that it is everything combined from the OP's post. Tannehill is not playing good, but people need to put things in context based on this teams situation. Almost everyone of those teams has a better and more consistent oline than us. Every one of those teams and every other team in the league has more playmakers than us. I do think playcalling is a factor, but i also think that the playcalling is a result of us having limitations in our personnel. I think people are more upset about the situation because the playoffs were a real possibility. Now that that issue is put to an end maybe people will focus on Tannehill making more progress. And there has been some. It seems the tipped passes have been addressed, Tannehill is starting to make more plays with his legs. I also think it is worth mentioning that alot of people had issues with Tannehill getting his eyes downfield. He is starting to do that. Yeah he missed passes, but there is improvement. I heard people raging about him not going downfield, but when he holds the ball a little longer to try and make a play those people complain that he needs to check it down. Tannehill hasn't been getting it done, plain and simple, but very few of our players have been. He is a rookie and a extremely raw one at that. Now that the playoffs are out of sight i hope they really they just open the offense, hell even activate Egnew. This is the time for these players to learn, and while Tannehill has been sub-par at least there is improvement in there. I am still very exited about his potential and what he can do once this team starts improving on some of these units. Tannehill is not doing good Oline is not doing good RB's are not doing good WR's are not doing good TE's are not doing good Hard to put so much blame and expect so much from one guy with so much inconsistency. On a positive note. I really think Philbin is gonna be a great coach, Jones is a beast, Misi played a great game and i think Martin looked decent at LT.
The point is moot, the ball was over thrown. This team's problem does extend beyond the rookie QB, however a decent amount of blame does go on him for this game. He did not play well. I am not convinced that Moore would have played better.
Yup, our guys could really use the energy of the fans helping to push them that much harder like Pitt & Baltimore to name a few, Deej.... which we're obviously lacking.
