Mike Mayock: Team speed, not Ryan Tannehill, is the problem with the offense

Again, there may be instances you are correct where he was inaccurate but generally what I have seen is players not getting to places on the field they are expected to get to. Every QB misses throws. Matt Schaub missed a few last night within 10 yards and most regard him as a pretty good QB. Team speed is a definite problem with this team as there is almost zero big play capability but its even more problematic with respect to the lack of timing and cohesion that we have seen out there for much of the year. Our most successful games have been for the most part against teams that play physical, not fast. Thats why we rail teams like the Jets and rally to beat Seattle and struggle vs defenses like Buffalo and Indy.

 

Ya......no. I know you want to be right about the Dolphins making a mistake starting Tannehill over Moore, but this is crazy talk. Re watch some of those games. Moore chucked the ball up to Mashall every chance he got, and Marshall caught a lot more of them than people care to admit. Tannehill doesn't have crap.....well nvm, he does have crap.

 

Both Bess and Hartline has worse numbers overall with Moore, so I don't know what he is talking about.

 

although that is to be expected with Marshall in the mix, it's still just silly.

 

Omar Kelly?? The same guy who said Nanee didn't have holes in his play?

 

ahahaha

 

Can we get a copy of the Atlanta Falcons blueprint on rebuilding. They seem to know what they are doing and even they havnt got a great running game. They can fix that with tweaking in Draft and FA. Phins just havnt been in a position to ever tweak. We invest in one or two positions that cause other positions to decrease in talent.

 

Mayock is so spot on here. It will become abundantly clear next year when we (darn sure better) have more talent on the offense. To say THill is an inaccurate passer is to ignore the entire season as a whole. Re-watch the games, and you'll find a raw QB who is still learning the game at the game's highest level, and who the worst thing you can say about is he's inconsistent.

I can't wait to see what he will do w/ more talent next year, and another offseason to prepare based on what he learned with the on-the-job training he's getting right now!

 

Obviously all QBs miss throws. Even the throws Tannehill makes have been poorly placed, though. I don't see this as an issue with team speed. I think it's an issue with his accuracy.
It's been declining.

 

Some have yea, I have seen this other rookies as well. I watch every game.

 

Team speed is often the knee jerk explanation, for both offense and defense.

If you were to look at the reported pre-draft times of the WRs on the Dolphins compared to those on the top passing teams in the NFL (Packers, Saints, Patriots, Giants, etc.) you'd see a lot less variance than you might think and the Dolphins wouldn't be last.

 

Step one was Matt Ryan, which we're currently trying to do with Ryan Tannehill.

 

I'm not sure you understand what speed means...... and you're also wrong WADR.

 

Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit

 

Instant gratification culture that is not helped by rookie quarterbacks on other teams playing so well. I knew people would toss Tannehill under the bus if he did not light it up right away but I thought they would at east give the kid a year....I was wrong.

 

I think the only thing we expect as fans is a competent NFL offense. Is that asking for too much? Sheesh!

 

I have a pretty firm handle on what speed means. And no, I'm not wrong:

Dolphins

Hartline -- 4.52/4.49
Bess -- 4.64/4.60
Moore -- 4.49

Patriots

Welker -- 4.65
BLloyd -- 4.62
Edelman -- 4.52
Branch -- 4.47

Packers

Nelson -- 4.51
JJones -- 4.54/4.58
Jennings -- 4.42
RCobb -- 4.46

The times above come from NFL Draft Scout. Where two numbers are shown, the first is the combine number and the second is from a Pro Day.

 

He's just in denial about Hartline & Bess's mediocrity and will scapegoat a 1st round franchise QB if it means preserving his belief they're actually a decent starting duo. Only so long he can hang on before there's no more thread left to hold him. It's evidently more so now that he's trying to make our starting WR/TE group out to be no different speed-wise than the league's best.

 

Convenient of you to add Moore to make Hart & Bess look better. That's all we need to know right there. BTW, was Moore in your report about how our receivers "compared to the league's best"? Don't think so.

Mayock is speaking of Bess & Hartline and you know it. 4.64 & 4.52..... and the 4.52 guy, unlike all the bold names on this list, has ZERO long speed and easily gets caught from behind b/c of it. Aaron Hernandez, an Hback, has more game speed than one of our starting receivers.

Mayock didn't say Bess & Hart don't have acceleration. He said they don't have speed. There's a BIG difference. When your forty reaches top speed at the 10-15 yard mark and the rest is a warm fart, that means you DONT have speed.

 

I'm not sure. I don't think Elam will have great size/speed numbers. Safeties with average size/speed numbers often fall in the draft. It would not surprise me to see Elam fall to the 2nd round. Assuming we get one of the pass rushers in the 1st then we're good on defense. WRs always drop in the draft unless they're just physical freaks. This draft lacks those. I think we could add offense with our second 2nd round pick. My ideal draft would be Barr, Elam, Austin. And then add one of the FA WRs. If Austin doesn't last that long, I could see a guy like Swope (WR) making sense later in the draft. I don't see that ideal draft as easy or a lock, but I also don't see it as impossible. It doesn't address the TE need, but I'm hoping Egnew develops (that's why you have a coaching staff that's develops players). We might also be able to add a FA TE like Delanie Walker to address that need. What I don't focus on in my draft if G and CB, but IMO those are now lower value positions that can be filled later or with mid-level FAs.

 

No way. Bess & Hartline will be held back until we get them another QB capable of making them not look like a pile of dog**** as starters.

 

Their big advantage was getting a QB early and then having consistency. A talented QB that has years to get comfortable makes everything better. I have no doubt that if you give RT four years to develop that he'll be as good (IMO better) than what Ryan is now. That consistency also makes the surrounding cast better.

 

Fineas,
do you believe Hartline & Bess have more or less game speed than Roddy White? Simple question.

 

Exactly.
When Javorskie Lane has 1 less reception than our #3 wide receiver there is serious problems.

The reason tannehill looks "innacurate" is due to the lack of seperation our receivers are getting, he has to put it in such a tight window there is zero room for error. Watch Tom Brady last night against houston, he had windows you could drive a bus through, and when he wasnt on the money his players made plays.

Like someone said earlier speed isnt just about beating guys deep but the ability to take a one yard WR screen pass and take it to the house, or make a huge play out of it. The dolphins are bringing flintlock rifles to battle not assault rifles.

 

Can you absolutely 100% guarantee that Tannehill is going to get a lot, lot better. My view is that he may get better or or he may not. I don't think QB is a real need at this time, especially with all the other pressing needs this team has. I just think that Tannehill is still a huge question mark at this time and there is no way of knowing, based on his play so far, that he will get a lot, lot better, as you suggest.

 

Good, speak to the guy buying the groceries for this offense and ask him why Tannehill has the worst supporting cast in the entire league...or one of the bottom five anyway (Oakland, Cleveland, and NYJ can also make claims for being the worst)?

 

No one can guarantee it but how about we get some playmakers and find out? And dont tell me we had one cause regardless of what anyone thinks the ship has sailed so its hindsight at this point.

 

Welker is a 4.65 guy on the field too. He is quick in short areas, but so is Bess. But yes, I very much agree that 40 times aren't all that important. Nonetheless, they do measure speed, which is what we are talking about.

 

In a straight line and with shorts on. Jerry Rice ran a 4.71 40 but played much faster.

 

He's going to get better and when we add better players that can eventually combine to be what we all want to see - PLAYOFFS

 

I added Moore just like I added Branch and Cobb for NE and GB. But if you want o exclude him and just look at Bess and Hartline as compared to Welker and Lloyd the Dolphin duo is still faster.

Putting aside the reality that "long speed" isn't all that important, it is not true that Hartline has none or that he has less than most fo the other guys I listed. Below shows how long it took these guys to run from the 20 yard mark to the 40 yard mark at the Combine:

Hartline -- 1.91
Nelson - 1.92
RCobb -- 1.93
BLloyd - 1.91

 

Do you have any actual evidence that Hartline is slower than these other guys in pads. Not subjectively because you think they look faster to you, but something even semi-objective? The bottom line is that Hartline gets open deep and has always had a pretty good yards per catch.

 

Branch doesnt even play for NE. Donte Stallworth does. http://www.patriots.com/team/roster.html

 

I don't think you quite understand just how limiting his surrounding cast as a whole is right now and how that is influencing his play. Having to play each snap as if inside the redzone with a defense constricting you is no joke, not for any QB. It's a heavy burden to force any QB to have to operate at such a high level of execution & precision b/c of it, let alone a rookie. Gotta ease that burden by stretching the field, providing better windows, opening up space for others to have an impact (namely the run game), and breaking an occasional TD.

As a QB, you know what's going on with your offense; you can see the deficiencies, and as the QB you directly feel the stressful brunt of the pressure to help make up for these deficiencies, which results in some atypical decision-making & inconsistency. If Tannehill didn't have a future, his QBR with this group of slop would be in the 50's.

 

And unfortunately gets tackled by the slightest hint of contact. :\

 

I fully understand how limiting his supporting cast is. I hope Tannehill is a huge success for the Dolphins. I just want to wait and see how he develops with a solid cast around him before I declare he is the future for the Dolphins or just another bust. Right now no one really knows how he will turn out over the coming years.

 

Branch has the 3rd most snaps among Patriot WRs this year, which is why he was include, as I included the top guys in terms of snaps this year. Stallworth has been in for 20 snaps. Are you arguing that we should take account of Stallworth's speed as a contribution to the Patriots' passing game over the last 2 years based on his 20 snaps and 1 reception?

 

He is 73rd in YAC. The only time he gets deep is on blown coverages.

 

This is such a cliche answer when it comes to discussing a rookie QB.

Did I say ANY of that in my post? All I said was he has been struggling. That's the truth. I didn't make any absolute statement about his career.