Dolphins agree to referendum for stadium tax dollars

1 NFL fans and the excitement they bring pales in comparison to D1 football games. No comparison what so ever and they do not even serve beer at college games and the people are crazy
2 The National Championship is played in January. Sun Life stadium is a tad cooler and more comfortable in January.
3 I have watched Miami games in recent years, the place is half empty.
4 It needs A/C and even then, S. Florida sports fans have changed since Shula's glory years, there is no denying that.

 

Are you serious, you don't know what I'm talking about when I say intimate in a football setting?

 

The place was sold out.

 

.If the solution is A/C, as you suggest. I guess the $400,000,000 in improvements will not do nothing to improve attendance. The roof the Dolphins want does not cover the top of the stadium, therefore there won't be any A/C for the fans unless they purchase a suite.

Perhaps the place is half empty because people like you watch the games on TV instead of attending the games in person. I love how so many people complain about seeing all those empty seats while they are watching the game on television. I realize some Dolphin fans don't live in Florida and therefore watching the game on television is the only way they can watch their team each week.
I also happen to have a good friend who lives over 300 miles from stadium and he hasn't missed a Dolphin home game in over 20 years.

It seems like many individuals would rather complain about how hot it is or make any excuse why they don't go to the games. I think the truth is that it isn't a stadium issue, it is a bad product issue. Sports fans in South Florida haven't changed over the years. They have always supported winners and avoided losers. The Heat, prior to signing James had trouble drawing fans to the arena. Now it is sold out on a nightly basis. Winners in South Florida are supported, and losing teams play to empty seats. Like it or not, that is the reality of sports in South Florida and has been for as long as teams have been playing in South Florida.

 

First when I mentioned half empty when I watched games it was in reference to the U games. We all know our games are not sold out. I understand your point but believe me. When they built this new stadium out here in Glendale, the place sold out immediately and has been sold out since. I do not know if it took time to build a fan base or what but do know outside of 4 years since the Cardinals moved here the team has sucked. The owner Bidwil was hated in St. Louis and in Arizona. He turned the team over to his son and then they got the new stadium. The place is packed. I went to our game out here this year. Yes at the time the Cards were 4-0 or 3-0 but all of us that live here and hate the Cards knew no matter what happened in our game the Cards were going to crash and burn from that point forward. Don't ask me why, just had a feeling and the place was still packed.

The stadium is unreal beautiful and when you live in Arizona you apprecieat A/C or whatever cooling system they use. I mean Ross owns the land already right ? You double the money, 800 Mil and I bet you can have a new stadium down there. Yes if he had to buy the land it would be over a billion but I do not think that is the case. Getting cover from the sun is great but getting out of the humidity is a Godsend.

 

Perhaps you need to review the actual attendance for the Dolphins and the Cardinals over the past four years. When you take a look at the actual number of fans attending the games, the Dolphins and Cardinals are very close when it comes to total attendance at games. The fact is that the Dolphins stadium holds several thousand more people than the Cardinals new stadium. So if the Dolphins had the same size stadium as the Cardinals, you wouldn't see many empty seats at all.

I guess since I have lived in South Florida for over 50 years, I am used to the hot, humid weather we have for several months each year. To me, playing football in a domed stadium with A/C is ridiculous. It takes the weather elements away from the game and I believe football was meant to be played outdoors in the wind, rain, snow, hot and cold. If I wanted A/C while watching football, I would just stay home and watch the game on TV.

I don't believe that the stadium, the heat, or the lack of A/C, is the reason attendance has declined at Dolphin or Hurricane games. All either of these teams need to do to start filling up the stadium once again is produce a winning football team. A new stadium may have helped the Cardinals in recent years increase attendance but that won't work in South Florida. Fans here want winners and when the team doesn't win, fans find something else to do on game days.

The new stadium built for the Miami Marlins is a perfect example of how little a new stadium affects the fans in South Florida. The Marlins started the 2012 with a brand new, state of the art baseball stadium. Because of an increase in money spent on free agents, expectations were that the Marlins would be a very good team in 2012. The stadium was filled early in the year, but as the team continued to lose, fan interest waned. By the time the season was over, the Marlins had the lowest average attendance of any team in recent history, who were playing their first season in a brand new stadium.

This season because of a reduction in payroll and low expectations for the team, the Marlins will probably have the lowest average attendance of any major league baseball team. So the fact they have a brand new stadium really doesn't matter to the fans down here. It is all about winning in South Florida. A new or renovated stadium means absolutely nothing, if the team playing in the stadium is not winning games.

 

I'm serious about not using the term that way...

 

You mean the same place that was sold out for the National Championship game? The one that was extremely loud?

 

I would imagine that these meters have been perfected thru the years from 1970 until now but do not know for sure. I don't think it was ever recorded to my knowledge but when I saw it it was about 110...

 

just keep turning the cheek the other way despite the evidence put forth..Rock on brother...

Kurbstreit was only telling you what he felt on national tv..

 

It makes you uncomfortable in your manhood?.. Lol.

An intimate venue?, have you never heard the term used in conjunction with a venue?..

Ok, we'll stick with Proximity relative to the field...we're the worst in sports by far, and it's a cancer for two football programs that used to have rich tradition when it came to their home field advantage, hmmm, now both programs have rotted slowly over the past two decades..hmmm, wonder what's the common denominator..

 

Yet we listened with our own ears that he is full of it! That place was rockin for the National Championship game!

 

I just checked and my manhood is the best its ever been..

 

You do know how long a decade is right?

 

I am on the other end of the stick these days when it comes to watching football. When I was young I sat thru snow sleet rain heat to watch games. Now after being to stadiums like Reliant in Houston and in Arizona, I will take them any day. They are not domed or closed in. They have some sort of cloth on the roof that opens. Even with all the lights off the stadium is still bright in daytime. Of course they put lights on but have been to the Cards stadium for trade shows etc with the field lights off and its still as bright as heck in there. Nice weather , which is mostly always after Sept. here, when the roof is open the place is spectacular.

For our game here this past season against the Cards I had friends from New Jersey, Miami and Philly out to my home and we all went to the game. It was 102 at game time. Each and every one of them absolutely LOVED the stadium and the AC. I can see your point about outdoor stadiums but believe me, these places with these new cloth movable roofs are the best places I have watched football in my life.

I do not know about the Marlins because I do not like baseball but we have the same thing here. Diamondbacks have a beautiful ball park, with a roof and AC. Same thing happened here. First year 1995 or 96 place was packed. But since its been 2/3s empty unless there is a really good ball club coming here. The Yankees do not fill that place up all the time either. Baseball is a lot different then football. Not everyone can go to every home game in baseball at 1 pm in the afternoon. If they are a championship team then maybe they will get a big crowd but you look around the entire nation. With exception of but a handfull of baseball teams, most of the stadiums are empty during weekday games.

Lets face it, the fan base has changed. In Miamis case a lot of Jet and Giant fans moved down there, thats why the Jets games look like NY home games a lot of times. I only use the Cards stadium as an answer I saw happen and it worked out here. Actual numbers thru the gate I am not sure of in comparison but I do know the place is sold out, the suites and all for every season since it has opened.

 

On the front page of the Miami Herald today, the most recent poll of voters shows that 73% of the voters in Miami-Dade County oppose the tax-break plan for the renovation of Dolphin stadium. While the Dolphin organization criticized this recent poll, the fact is that it is going to be nearly impossible for the Dolphins to get the majority of the voters in Miami-Dade County to vote for this plan.

The only way I see these renovations being completed at the stadium is for the politicians to go against the will of the majority of the voters and approve the plan anyway, or for Ross to pay for all the renovations himself. Since the politicians are unlikely to go against the voters if the referendum fails at the poll, it looks like Ross better be ready to pony up all the money if he wants to improve the stadium.

Since he is worth over four billion dollars, a few hundred million dollars to renovate HIS stadium shouldn't be a big problem for him.

 

There's an article on another site that says we passed the referendum, anyone know any new news?

 

Yeah, they suck..

We'll see what Ross does when he gets denied, hopefully he'll make the changes for the ignorant.

 

They don't want another Marlins scenario. I am not opposed to there negative attitude toward it, but I hope they see how good it really is.

 

They won't, this is The Miami sport fan..clueless.

 

It sucks... I think our chances would have been much higher had the Marlins not screwed over Miami

 

Every single one of us.....


The referendum was passed long ago. Then the Dolphins chose to let the voters decide. Good luck with that in a City full of their opponents fans and especially after seeing how the Marlins screwed the pooch.

It's ok though because there will always be green grass to play on.

 

Atlanta just showed how you get a deal done for a new stadium. Is the Georgia Dome as old as JRS? No. Has it been renovated and improved over the years? Yes. Do the Falcons need a new stadium? Yep....football in the south should be played outside. The Falcons, the city of Atlanta, and the state have worked out a deal for a new retractable roof stadium to be in the same area as the Georgia Dome and the World Congress Center. This will provide the Falcons with their own home, get future Super Bowls, a stadium that can attract a BCS title game, the World Cup and an MLS team.

How did they get it done?

That is how you get things done.

 

We just want a winner, that's all, we don't care about support, we dont think rationally about our sports teams, the city officials and those ignorant fans have no vision, or what it means to have one in the city, just give us a winner, then will come and sit on our *** and watch..

 

Steve Ross is worth over $4 billion. Want to be a hero? Finance the entire thing yourself.

 

DJ, It isn't the sports fan in Miami, and especially the Dolphin fans, who oppose this planned renovation of the stadium using tax money. It is the vast majority of the voting population in Miami-Dade County whom have no interest in the Dolphins to begin with.

I believe that the majority of the season ticket holders come from Broward and Palm Beach County and they have no vote in this referendum. The reality is that the majority of the citizens in Miami-Dade could care less if the Dolphins play here or not.

As a long time resident of Miami-Dade County and a fan of the Dolphins since 1966, I certainly have no problem with the tourist tax being used to renovate the stadium. I don't think many Dolphin fans in the county are opposed to this tax either. Unfortunately the fans of the team are greatly outnumbered by the many voters who never attend games or even watch the Dolphins when the games are on TV. So don't blame the sports fan in Miami if this referendum doesn't pass. It certainly won't be us in the majority at the polls on that day. Unfortunately it will be the non sports fans who will be in the majority, because that is the majority of the voters in the county.

 

DJ don't believe you can really blame us "clue less " fans that live in Miami...

You see we have been lied to by Billioners...

and among other things that go un-noted...

3/4 of the sporting fans living in South FLA are from the Northeast for the most part... Why would they vote for a Dolphins franchise to pay money for a team that they don't root for???

But please don't call us clue-less, we are tired about being lied to...I rather pay the money for a new stadium since in about 5 years, the NFL will probably mandate it to get the SB down here... Wayne just spent 250 million about 5-6 years ago in renovations...

and on the other side, I have re-upped my season tickets this year

 

There you go UT, you got it right...

Just heard on the radio that the stadium being built in Atlanta for the Falcons will be paid mostly (80-90%) by the owner... The other 200-250 million will be paid by tourist taxes just like in Miami ( but they will have a new stadium for the price that Miami taxpayers will be paying for Sun Life)...

 

The referendum passed by the county commission supporting the tax to renovate the stadium meant very little. The reality is that the state legislature needs to approve the plan for the money to be granted to the Dolphins for stadium renovation. The legislature didn't even have the proposal on the agenda for this year, because they didn't want to vote on the matter until they knew if the majority of the voters in Miami-Dade County were in favor of the plan.

In fact, the Miami-Dade County delegation which serves in the state legislature didn't even have the tax proposal as a main item in their agenda. This was the main reason the Dolphins were forced to bring the issue to the voters. They were basically told by the delegation that they wouldn't even try to get the proposal heard in Tallahassee, unless the voters of Miami approved of the plan in an election.

No matter what they are saying now. The Dolphin organization never wanted this issue before the voters. They would have preferred that the politicians in Miami-Dade and in Tallahassee approve these tax increases, without the voters having any say in the matter. Unfortunately for the Dolphins, the politicians in Tallahassee wouldn't go along with the idea of the voters in Miami-Dade having no say in the matter. While Miami-Dade Commissioners voted to approve the plan, I think the politicians in Tallahassee will only agree to the tax increase if the voters in Miami-Dade vote in favor of the referendum. Right now, the chances for voter approval appears very slim, but stranger things have happened.

 

The problem is that Ross hasn't agreed to pay (80-90%) for a new stadium. He only wants to renovate the stadium the Dolphins are playing in right now. Perhaps if he was willing to build a new stadium and he was only asking for 200-250 million dollars from tourist taxes, his chances of getting the money would be better. Of course since he already owns 100% of the present stadium, it makes perfect sense that he would rather upgrade the stadium he already owns, instead of paying well over a half a billion dollars of his own money on a new stadium.

 

Dude, you're about 30 days late......

The only reason why the Dolphins agreed to bring the fans to vote was because they want to start now. The city was in no hurry to. But it still can be brought to the state in the fans vote is close.

 

The only reason the Dolphins agreed to the vote is that the politicians in Tallahassee and especially the Miami-Dade delegation didn't give them any other choice in the matter. It was either, let the voters have a voice at the polls or no action at all would take place in regards to the issue in the legislature this year. It doesn't matter how quickly the team wants to start renovations. It all comes down to the voters and according to the latest poll, 73% of Miami-Dade voters oppose the plan to give tax money for these renovations.

I don't know what you consider a close vote, but if 73% of the voters who show up at the polls vote against the referendum. The only way the Dolphins will be be able to start these renovations immediately, is if Ross pays for all the renovations himself.

 

No DJ this is Miami-Dade taxpayers, many of which don't give a damn about any sports teams, speaking their minds with their tax dollars.

Ross needs to abandon this now and just agree to do it himself. This "referendum" will do nothing but waste a few million dollars that are already needed by a broke county. How will you feel if someone doesn't get the EMT help they need just because Ross wanted a referendum ? Really c'mon dude, this is his stadium, he owns it, and wants to pay only half ? Has he agreed to pay back the other half and when ? I wish the county would do repairs on my house and upgrade the 1950's bathrooms but I doubt the county has the want to do that TO MY PRIVATE PROPERTY. Same with Ross. Do it yourself rich man.

 

Good idea to build an all new stadium, or seriously renovate from skeleton the old one. That place is terrible and it's going into a gutter fast.
Public Private partnership is always a good and fair way to do it. The devil is in the numbers.

 

Do some more homework and maybe you'll learn something. AND, once again, you're about 30 days late telling anyone some of this. As in I said it 30 days ago.

 

He really does not want to pay a penny. If he got the State to pay half, he could then ask the NFL to pay the rest. It won't cost him nothing extra since he pays a huge chunk in revenue sharing.

 

Thats not how you get to be a Billioniare..........

The Marlins continue to screw us. Finally got rid of that nasty infield dirt for half the season , now we need to get rid of the dugouts and make this stadium more Football ready. This will effect the entire area. The county should be willing to invest in its biggest draw to the area. If the Dolphins leave I'll NEVER go South unless I'm going to the Keys. That area is a ****hole. I'll take North Fla everyday of the week. I visit there 3-6 times a year because of the Phins. I spend a couple Thousand in revenues, food, tolls. ect. They are screwed if the Phins leave.

 

#..

 

First of all, I only bought this thread back up yesterday because of the recent pool in the Miami Herald which showed that 73% of the voters in Miami Dade were opposed to this referendum. So I am not sure how you already stated this 30 days ago, when the poll was only reported yesterday.

As far as what you stated 30 days ago. I don't really care, because I certainly don't waste my time by checking to see if you happen to have said something over a month ago. Reading what OZZY said will never been a homework assignment for me. You can be assured of that.