Miami Dolphins targeting 'core positions' in NFL draft

Exactly.

Either what padre wants to see has already happened and it didn't affect him (so that's good) or it hasn't ever happened because no one can hit him (so that's also good).

 

Oh it will happen in the league, even DJax was lit up, fellas there are no 'magic' players

Everyone takes a beating, this is where the "worried about his size" stuff comes from, it really is "can he tough out having the snot knocked out of him a couple of times in a 3 game stretch"?

 

Right, but let's be realistic, do you really think no one has hit him hard in all of high school and college?

 

I generally agree. I don't see toughness as a question for Austin. This guy played RB at times. He did it against a very large Texas team. And he did it with runs between the Ts. That kind of player can handle contact. Now obviously, he is better in space. I don't see him having as much space or breaking free nearly as often in the NFL. He doesn't have great strength. But he has shown that he can still make the catch with contact. I can easily see him doing what Welker did, but with more homerun ability. I generally prefer to fill the slot WR position with guys later, but IMO the way the league is changing and Austin's level of talent that I wouldn't have a problem drafting a young, faster Welker at #12.

 

He ran for over 300 yards against Oklahoma as a RB (right? or am I completely wrong about that?). Doesn't that prove toughness?

 

I suppose the Ginn/Austin comparison is off base because Ginn is still in the league. Whereas Austin will be a stain on the 50 yard line.

You can go get Ryan Swope instead, for one third the price, who can do many of the same things, and who already has rapport with Tannehill.

 

You mean Austin will leave a stain from the person who he juked out of his jock so hard that he pooped his pants on the 50 yard line.

I would also like to get Swope.

 

Sorry, I meant to say Oklahoma. He ran for 344 yards against the Sooners. And yes it does prove toughness.

 

There is this widely shared notion that Tavon Austin is Randall Cobb.

But Ryan Swope is Jordy Nelson. I fail to see what Austin can do that Swope cannot. Besides line up halfback, I highly doubt Austin will be doing much of that in the NFL.

 

[video]http://splicd.com/i8edTjSx1nM/23/27[/video]

 

I don't think it makes much sense to raise an injury concern over a player that has never been injured. Fact is that injuries are based on more than just size. Guys like Warrick Dunn have proven that they can be durable regardless of size. And that was at a much more injury prone position than WR.

 

So why did they get Randall Cobb and use him effectively?

For the record, I'd rather dump Hartline & Bess, and draft Austin, Bailey and Swope, yes I'm that crazy.

 

I love Swope, but Austin is quicker and more dynamic in addition to being able to line up at RB. He definitely brings some additional talents to the table. I could see a reasonable question as to whether that talent is worth taking at #12 over getting Swope later, but I think it's unreasonable to claim that Austin doesn't bring have additional talents.

 

Stats are a bit like highlight reel stuff Rafi, you can look at the paper, but you'd have to watch each play to see if he was ever really hit and bounced back quickly, this is my caution with him.

I'd like to have him on the roster, make no mistake about it, but I'm a bit more cautious then most are with him.

He is the sort of player the offense needs, as much as I love DBess's game, could see him being shuffled out of the lineup and Miami in favor of Austin going wide and Gibson moving to the slot or what have you.

 

Because he was too good to pass up with the 64th pick.

 

I did watch the game. That's why I was able to say he ran between the tackles. He took some hits, but not many. He seems to have that knack for avoiding the flush hit. I recall Emmitt Smith having that at Florida. He always seemed to make every hit a glancing blow. I don't recall seeing Emmitt really get tagged until after he left Dallas.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, Nelson was a 2nd rounder and Cobb was a 2nd. They weren't spending high first rounders on these guys. In fact, the last four first round picks the Packers have had went to the offensive or defensive lines. Philbin, it bears repeating, is an offensive line guy.

 

Last season Miami ran a play where Bush ran towards Tannehill from the slot. The play was quite effective. Austin could replace Bush. Swope cannot

 

Texas Defense this last year...is light years from the worst NFL defense he will face.

Emmitt was very fortunate to run behind a front line that had minimum of 3 Pro Bowls each and every year. I used to post the numbers, but got tired of nobody seeing that picture. Emmitt had an incredible 3+ yards BC and very little afterwards. Not many RB's in the history of the league have been able to average 3 yards before ever being touched......

Austin will not make it if he is asked to line up at RB and run between the tackles at the next level.

 

Go watch Austins 2011 tape against LSU. It showed him against a defense that is chock full of NFL caliber talent. There was one play in particular he may have gotten alligator arms going across the middle, but overall, it's a good barometer of what he will be able to do at the next level. But I don't think it's fair to question his "toughness".

 

Not at UF. Those lines were horrid. And regardless of where contact occurs, I'm talking about the ability to minimize the force of the impact. Emmitt made every hit a glancing blow. That's innate in some players.

 

Dickerson was the master at it, but he was also a large player, for Austin he'll pretty much have to go over the middle to be as effective as he can be, and that means he will take a lot of punishment on that small frame.

 

I don't think "a lot" of punishment is accurate. IMO Welker doesn't take "a lot" of punishment and I see being used similarly.

 

With Ryan Tannehill, Swope put up 89 receptions for 1207 yards and 11 TDs. Swope is 6'1", 205. He runs a 4.34.

Tavon Austin put up up 114 receptions for 1289 yards and 12 TDs this past season. He runs a 4.34. Tavon is 5'8", 175.

Austin's YAC (which are like 70% of his receiving totals) come from running around and away from defenders. That may work against Baylor, I doubt it works as well against Baltimore. Swope pinballs off the harder hits over the middle and keeps trucking. That's more of what a slot receiver will deal with in the NFL.

Take the six toughest WR matchups for each guy in this past season, and you get..
Austin (Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, TCU, Oklahoma State): 10.3 receptions, 103.8 yards, 1.00 TDs
Swope (LSU, Auburn, Mississippi State, Alabama, Missouri, Oklahoma): 8.5 receptions, 101.3 yards, 0.83 TDs

Now Austin played way more RB in college, but I don't think that translates to the NFL. So they are basically put up the same stats as WRs. They are similar productive except one is larger, has a better vertical (Swope), longer arms (Swope), more bench reps (Swope), better broad jump (Swope) and one who has already worked with Ryan Tannehill and proven to be his favorite target (Swope). Swope is, arguably, Austin's peer at Wr, a safer pick, and perhaps a slightly better athlete.

Yet one is anointed a unique talent and the other will be there at 2b or 3a.

Drafting Tavon Austin at 12 is dumb.

 

Swope could line up at halfback. He rushed for 1,827 yards and 27 TDs as a senior in high school. How good he'd be at it in the NFL is unclear, but the same is true of Austin. Personally, I think austin can be very effective at it in the NFL. While Swope has a very good skill-set and may time as fast as Austin, they are not the same player. I think Swope can be a very good, productive player, but I think Austin's field vision and electrifying quickness can make him a huge weapon in a way I don't think Swope will/can.

 

There are a few issues I have with Austin's game, but I don't think toughness is an issue.

 

I don't think you can just dismiss the RB production. It won't be as big in the pros, but it does add something. It also shows a better ability to gain YAC. That's what I see as the difference between he and Swope. I think there will be a percentage of plays where if you had Austin and Swope in the exact same slot position, Austin would get more separation and gain more yardage b/c of his greater explosiveness and RB ability. I think there's an argument whether that's worth the pick premium, but they are not identical talents. I think it's extreme (and inaccurate) to claim that picking either player at their expected slots is dumb.

 

You're not going to put a 5'8", 175 at RB in the NFL. Maybe, max, a few carries a game. The difference between a potential round 1 and round 3 pick has got to be more than a few carries a game.

 

I also think this stuff about Austin getting carries is exaggerated. Randall Cobb got 10 carries all season, and most were at the start of the season when they had a hard time getting him on the field as a WR. Austin could probably do it well, but the reward is not nearly worth the risk IMO.

 

But it's more than that. I don't believe he'll get a ton of carries at RB, but I do believe that his RB abilities will make him better at getting YAC. How many more first downs, short passes that turn into long gains, TDs, etc., will that translate to? And how much of a pick of a pick premium is that worth? Those are obviously subjective answers, but it's foolish to just dismiss them entirely.

 

I do agree that as a WR, his ability to make some people miss will help.

I still don't think a gadget player, that is a midget by NFL standards is worthy of a top 12 pick, unless we were only one electrifying pick away...and we are much much more than that.

He is a luxury for the right team, not a need for a team that has many.



EDIT: That being said, I wouldn't be completely pissed if we picked him at 12. Not like it was when we passed up Pat Willis for Ted Ginn. Now THAT was a sad day for Dolphin fans...well, for most of us anyways.

IF Philbin really believes he can contribute that much, then so beit. I will root him on every Sunday!

 

Speed is not a luxury. Plus I don't agree that this team has many needs. Especially since the most important need is for Tannehill to play better.

I also don't believe he is a gadget player. He is a player who can be used as a gadget player.

 

It's gotten us good linemen.

And the Dolphins are rapidly reaching a point where their ability to utilize more ~*play-makers*~[/color] requires consideration of cost effectiveness. You've basically got one "starting" position left, and it's pretty much a flex position that is going to be on some level divided between fullback, #2 tight end and #3 wide receiver. You can have one of those dominate if you want to, but it's a commitment and requires thought.

If you draft say Tavon Austin, you are basically committing to play heavily "11" packages because he's likely just a slot receiver. Davone Bess basically goes, and you have limited room to use other players. You're also trying to run a no-huddle heavy offense, and that entails being able to do multiple things well out of the same formation, do you have the tools to do that out of that formation? If not, you're hurting yourself.

It's arguably better for the Dolphins not to invest loads of resources in one guy, but instead split it up among multiple guys and develop players. That way you aren't tied to a personnel package, and your offense can more organically develop.

 

I think you can do multiple things well with multiple formations with Austin because he can be a RB out of the backfield, a slot receiver or a perimeter WR. With a skill position personnel package of Wallace, Hartline, Keller, Clay and Austin you can do:

2 WR (Wallace and Hartline), 2 TE (Keller and Clay) and 1 RB (Austin)
2 WR (Wallace and Hartline), 1 TE (Keller) and 2 RB (Austin and Clay)
3 WR(Wallace, Hartline and Austin), 1 TE (Keller) and 1 RB (Clay)
4 WR (Wallace, Hartline, Austin and Keller) and 1 RB (Clay)
5 WR

You can put the two speed guys (Wallace and Austin) on the outside, or in the slot. With Lamar Miller in the game instead of Clay or Keller, you can do similar things. Not sure how much he's done it before, but Keller would seem to be pretty well suited to playing a FB role as either a lead blocker or safety outlet out of the backfield.

I know people will never stop saying it, but I don't think there is any real evidence to suggest that smaller guys like Austin are more prone to injury. Most of the league's small guys who had talent, whether at RB, WR or DB, have been largely injury free over long careers. For those few who didn't, there are dozens of big guys who were just as injury-plagued, if not moreso.

 

not full time, but occasionally he could do that, see woodhead

 

I think what rafael is saying is, he's not going to be used as RB. He's going to use those talents (which made him an effective college rb) out of the slot and that makes him more dangerous.

 

bull**** all this means is he used free agency to cop out and draft a tackle like usual

 

You want to use 2 of our first 3 picks on WR? I guess having 5 solid wr's is more important than having 1 solid cb? Brilliant! I'm all for drafting playmakers but we already have 4 decent to good wr's and 0 reliable cb's. Playmakers can play positions outside of WR fyi.

 

I think Miami has 2 reliable CBs and one pretty decent one. Plus I also think that Free Agency isn't over and there are some good CBs still available.

I want to use 2 of our first 3 picks on speed. Something both Swope and Austin have.

Also, BRILLIANT!

 

That speed isnt going to do you much good when its on the bench. How often do you really think we're going to be running 4-wide? Enough to warrant using high draft picks on? Factor in with your mock we'd have the worse trio of starting cb's in the league and offensive line that would get Tannehill killed if we did run 4-wide and you have yourself a terrible draft. No offense but your mock is ridiculous and has 0 chance of happening and for good reason. They didnt go out and sign Wallace, Hartline and Gibson to draft 2 wr's that early. You'd have 2 of those wr's riding the pine the majority of the game, plus you'd have to cut or trade Bess. You'd essentially be wasting a 2nd round pick on a slot WR when we already have Bess and in your scenerio Austin. How many slot guys do we need? How much better if at all would Swope be to Bess? Brilliant indeed!