Roster ramifications of the draft- Cap casualties and shifted positions

Agree with you on Misi, where we may have better options for the D that Coyle wants to run, but he also is on a rookie contract and might hang around just due to that...but he also could be trade bait, as you said...

I'm a bit curious to see how the last 3 WRs shake out...Binns, Matthews, Fuller, UDFAs....could be fun to watch, although that's not a salary cap casualty....

The most interesting is how the DBs shake out...Heck we might even see both Marshall and Patterson go, if these rooks shine ?? But I would think that a) Grimes health would have some thing to say about it and b) how those rooks actually show up... I mean, Marshall didn't show us much last year...Patterson was only here a short time....

 

I think Misi should be a backup lb, and he is a good one, something we haven't had.

I think Marshall stays, he is on our contract and can play nickel. Hrs better than Davis, at this point

Love our depth and versatility on the front seven right now. If Vernon improves, no reason he, Jordan wake, Odrick and Starks can't be on the field on 3rd down

 

I've been calling for the release of the same 3 players for 3 months now, cutting Carpenter, Marshall and Patterson frees up like 9 mil I think, that's money we can carry over to next offseason to cushion the big increases in cap numbers for our FA signings. Incognito stays I think, same with Misi, Jimmy Wilson will be hard pressed to make the 53 unless he significantly improves.

 

I'm interested in who you all think will be the third LB? Last year it was Burnett Dansby and Misi. We lost Dansby and Burnett. Picked up Ellerby and Wheeler. Dion Jordan will be playing defensive end opposite Wake.

Misi is going to be backing up who exactly? Misi is the starter.

 

you didnt hear Zac Thomas is coming back

 

You know what should be scarey to a lot of opponents? That Dion Jordan, as good as he, is is going to be learning from Cameron Wake arguably one of the best and scariest pass rusher in the NFL right now. As good as Jason Taylor and Ogunleye were together, Wake and Jordan can be even better. This is an awesome thought for any Dolphin fan.

 

what about vernon at misi's spot

 

Move Jared Odrick to DT and put Vernon at RE. The difference in run D last year was negligible between them.

 

We don't know that for sure. Jordan is more comfortable and effective playing standing up and in a variety of roles. IMO, he is more likely to start at Sam than RDE in the base. In the nickel he could line up at RDE and pass rush, but against teams with big tight ends like NE, Jordan may help just as much covering them, which he is capable of doing quite well.

 

As for cutting Marshall and Patterson, IMO we should definitely wait till training camp to see what the rookies can do first. Just by being drafted in the 2nd and 3rd, I do not think we should just anoint them as starters or the nickel back.

 

Thomas is not yet recovered from his labrum surgery. He cannot even workout his upper body. I am sure not expecting him to challenge Richie for a starting job this year. When Thomas is cleared to workout again, can he even get back to his pre-injury strength level by training camp? I would not bet on it. Right now, Richie and Pouncey are the only two things about our OL that we can really hang our hats on. The other 3 spots are a bunch of question marks.

 

Yessir, it is a bit like Swope with the concussion issues, these factor in, but are not on people's minds atm.

 

I agree, I see Thomas maybe worked in there with Garner as a swing tackle this year. Then next year he will take Richie's spot when his deal is up. IMO they will sign Winston and 3 position we can hang our hats on. With Martin probably starting at LT and really the only camp battle being between Jerry and Louis.

 

BTW if they haven't switched Incogntio to RG by now, they are never going to do it.

 

I would add that I think we're going to see Daniel Thomas supplanted by Mike Gillislee. Not to mention Carpenter is all but on his way out. They didn't pick Sturgis in the 5th just to give Carpenter camp competition. They expect Sturgis to be our new kicker.

 

More comfortable is really only important in college where (almost) nobody is getting paid. He was selected 3rd overall in order to rush the quarterback which he's going to do form the DE position. Coming in at 250 lbs without having worked out in a year in the shape he is currently in leads me to believe that we are going to let him develop physically allowing vernon to start unless Dion completely blows him out of the water. Because of this he will probably get some time at LB but in the grand scheme of things he projects as a DE.

^^ i disagree. Obviously I may be dead wrong but his full potential is not at line backer. He hasn't been able to put on weight pretty much at all in college because of the shoulder but once he does he should level out at 260-280, not really a linebacker in our scheme.

 

If it's just a labrum, then I'd say yes, he very well could. A torn labrum really wouldn't affect an offensive lineman all that much. It's more a question of pain tolerance and how severe the tear ways. For example, Chad Johnson played through a torn labrum in each shoulder during 2009 or 2010, can't remember which year.

 

He's not lifting, so he is losing upper body strength. It will take some time to regain it. That matter a lot more with an OL than a WR or DB.

 

Which he could do the same way Von Miller does, from the Sam.

 

I'd be willing to bet he'll be ready for training camp if he's had the surgery already.

 

At the same strength level he was before the injury? Even if so, I wouldn't bet he can beat out Richie.

 

What about Bruce Irvin? The few games I saw he was lining up all over the place. That may be an option as well.

 

It would be a disservice to only play this guy at one position he is so multidimensional. I just really believe he will grow into our base DE opposite wake.

 

Those two sentences appear to contradict each other.

 

Base DE in the future. Also plays LB on some downs. Better?

 

He could best utilize his multidimensional abilities that you mentioned at linebacker.

 

I think you need to look at how many different formations we ran last year and what we did out of them. Also, I think watching some of what Cincinnati did last year on defense with regards to Michael Johnson, and the defensive line, may help explain where D-pate was going with this. Misi will likely rotate in with Jordan, Vernon and or Odrick depending on the personnel package. We often times were in a 4-3 look last year, we had 4 bodies up front in simplistic terms but often times it wasn't a end tackle, tackle, end look. Nor did we always have the classic 3 backer look, regardless of who was out there.

Misi did rush the passer, dropped into coverage and stood up at a standard backer role. Jordan will likely assume a good chunk of that role, hence Misi likely being the backup. Also Vernon saw a good deal of time as well and is more athletic than Misi, the same as Jordan. You have to look at the roles of player rather than simply their listed position. Vernon was a guy who rushed and dropped and help give us a different look in a nickel. Misi was tried at the same role, as they worked the very raw Vernon in early on and he was simply not that great. Thats why during the middle portion of the season, Vernon was taking a good number of snaps away from Misi.

So now Misi has to battle both Vernon and the #3 overall Jordan. His days are likely numbered as there just isn't the space to carry him given his ceiling has likely been reached; which is a point that Vernon in many ways can do just on an athletic basis. Plus, in all honesty, Misi isn't very fast, which doesn't quite fit the need for speed this regime has.

 

I see him being developed into the Lawrence Taylor position..Standing him up in that position is getting the best out of him..

What else can you do with our incredibly talented prospect? What doesn't he allow the offense to do because of his ability to cover and rush at that size, what advantages do we get schematically if this kid turns out to be the real deal?

 

Chad Johnson did not fight off 300 lb lineman 60 to 70 times a game.

 

Yep, Conu, you are seeing what I am seeing.

Have to wonder, it looks like Davie misread badly what Cinci was going to do this offseason, perhaps they planned on signing Giraffe and then trading up for Austin.

Once they tagged Johnson, their hands were tied, may have wanted Austin, reality is they had to have Jordan to implement what they wanted to do on Defense.

 

agreed that not many starters should be written off just yet ....

Marshall is a pretty good nickel when healthy .... the staff allegedly liked what they saw from Patterson .... so Taylor will have to earn the starting spot (my $$$$ says he does), and Patterson is the one likely to go.

Daniel Thomas is in a really difficult spot ... with Gray coming off injury with great potential and bringing in Gillislee, the only one who is in a hotter seat is Carpenter - who 'should' be all but gone (unless Sturgis can't hit the broad side of a barn).

for Misi, you have Kaddu (who the staff liked last year), then add in Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Jordan and Jenkins .... Misi could be the slowest of them all - but doubt we DX him because of his experience .... I see guys like Trusnik and maybe Freeny as the odd guys out.

 

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm clearly not very versed in the terminology. If we are running more of a 3-4 then yeah jordan is a down lb. My intent was just to say he is goin to be playing bookend to wake most of the time

 

We'll run a bit of a hybrid. It will look like a 4-3 alignment wise on some plays and then only having to sub one man, switch to a 3-3-5 but we still have two pass rushers on the field, only one of our ends just stood up, like Vernon did last year. We're not a 3-4 although on some plays we will actually use some of the principles in terms of playing a 5 technique on the end - Odrick. While also having a 3 technique look at defensive tackle. It just creates mismatches and holes along the defensive front where our blitzers can come through.

I do recommend delving into NFL Rewind and looking at Cincy from a the coaches angle, shows a hell of a lot. Then compare it to what we began to implement last year.

 

It really seems like we are building this team to stop New England. The defense to defend those TE's and rush the passer.

Hope it works.

 

Jordan also has the unique physical characteristics and style of play to defend the read-option, which of course goes beyond New England.

 

I am not a big Misi fan, but I don't see the drafting of Jordan impacting him as much as it is going to impact Odrick. I think Jordan was drafted to play DE in a 4-3, not LB. Right now if he does play DE, he would be taking plays away from Odrick, not Misi. I guess Odrick could rotate from DE to DT during the course of games in an effort to give a breather to Jordan, Starks, and Soliai, but I don't see him remaining the starter if Jordan shows he is ready to start at the DE position when the regular season begins.

Of course it is possible the Dolphins coaching staff could go ahead and move Odrick to DT for the 2013 season to determine if he will be one of the answers for who will replace Soliai and Starks when they probably leave in free agency after the 2013 season.