Ireland has given you OL personnel responsibility

Just the fact that Jerry showed up in shape is an improvement.

I dunno what the problem was with the running game. I think it was 50% bad blocking, 25% bad running and 25% Cleveland's excellent run stopping defense. i will worry if it becomes a trend.

 

By game 4 or 5 I think we'll have a good bead on the team and its various units.

</lmeister cackles with glee because now he can use the "units & beads" joke he's been saving all week>

 

Actually by easily replaced I meant that the odds the team moves on are pretty high if he doesn't improve enough, not that the task of finding an upgrade would be easy...though let's not act like it would be all that difficult, just off the top of my head Clady, Veldheer, Eugene Monroe, Brandon Albert, and Roger Saffold will all be free agents at the end of the year, and we could certainly find an upgrade early in the draft if that's the route we chose to go.

 

UPDATE: According to Pouncey, they watched film of Horton's run defense last year and prepared for that and it was nothing like what Cleveland actually ran. they were caught off guard, but first game of the season and all.

See thew interview here: http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia/videos/Mike_Pouncey_On_Colts_Scheme/2b59ee51-a033-472c-a363-5f41950cc785

 

No, he won't be.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/07/14/broncos-ryan-clady-contract/2516631/


And picks early in the draft aren't for certain upgrades. Picks do bust (see Danny Watkins).


And again, the guys you named that would actually be upgrades probably will cost around +$8M/yr. Anytime that much money is involved, I'd hardly call it an easy upgrade considering the overall ramifications.

 

I would love to have Eugene Monroe even at his free agent cost and he will be available. Shift Martin back to the right.

I'd also like to see if Watkins can be an upgrade to Jerry this year. I can see why Watkins didn't make starter in Philly. Those 5 mauled the hell out of the Redskins.

That would just leave LG. Which if we can't resign Incognito cheaply I would look for a mauler like him as a replacement that can pull nicely.

 

its funny how many times you still mention vollmer as a signing when he already made it clear more then once that NE is the place where he wanted to be, i agree about schwartz though, but it seems there is a certain height they don't like as a OL

 

Satele is my mistake.

Toledo was just a nostalgic joke, not on Ireland's docket of decisions.

 

Well, if that's true, and our run blockng improves 100%, our running imporves 100% and our opponent in half as good at run stopping we will at least double last week's output on the ground.

 

True. And may mean we choose to not bring some other guys back, like Brent Grimes, or Randy Starks or Paul Soliai. For every FA we bring in with our money, there's usually a FA of our own we need to let go.

 

I figured it'd be hard to play a team you couldn;t properly scout.

Though the pass defense was, I guess, similar enough that it didn't pose the same difficulties.

 

So if we win the game there is no problem on the OL, but if we lost the game there would be a problem to address? That's a questionable approach to the OL, and that's a nice way of putting it.

As to the hypothetical situation presented by the OP, I would hire the best OL scout that I could find to help in drafting OL talent and signing OL free agents. What OLinemen in the last 5-10 years, besides Jake Long, the 1st pick overall in the draft, and Mike Pouncy, one of the highest drafted Centers in the last 20-30 years iirc, have actually worked out, at least for us? Todd Wade comes to mind, that's about it.

Wade Smith-OG, waived by us, Pro Bowler for Houston. OG Donald Thomas- waived by us, played great for New England, signed to a fat contract by the Colts, starting and protecting Andrew Luck. OG Evan Mathis- we signed him as FA, waived him and let's see what happened after that:

The Philadelphia Eagles signed Mathis to a one-year contract on July 31, 2011.[7] Immediately after the preseason, Mathis won the starting job at left guard for the 2011 season.

Signed a five-year, $25.5 million contract with the Eagles on March 17, 2012.

Pro Football Focus rated Mathis as the best guard in the NFL for the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

Named to the USA Today All-Joe Team after the 2012 season

Ranked number 6 overall in Pro Football Focus' Top 101 of 2012

Ranked number 47 overall in CBSSports.com's NFL Top 100, but was left off NFL.com's Top 100 list.

Became the highest-rated offensive lineman for Madden 25

And oh, by the way:

His uncle is Bob Baumhower, who played defensive tackle for Alabama and the Miami Dolphins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Mathis

Since 2008 we either made a bad choice drafting on or made a bad decision on releasing the following

- Shaw Murphy (bust)

- Donald Thomas (ill advised release)

- John Jerry (let's face it, a bad draft pick)

Personally, I have my doubts about Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas.

If we would have kept Smith, Thomas and Mathis the the Guard position would have been set.

If the FO didn't piss off Jake Long, then LT would have been set.

We've done a lousy job at drafting OL other than at very high selections (that have produced for us). We have done a lousy job of developing our OLinemen.

Basically, Ireland has done a crappy job of developing the OL- as to the coaching, I can't give an educated assessment, I don't know if the OL coach is good or not. Regardless, Ireland has shown that his drafting decisions (other than layups) are not good, nor are his decisions as to who to retain, ie how to recognize and evaluate the talent that we have. OG Chris Barker was good enough for the Patriots to add him to the 53- after we waived him. Go figure.

Bottom line- Jeff Ireland, please hire someone with an eye for the OL who knows what they're doing, how to evaluate OL talent, because you surely don't.

 

That's the final straw -- I'm now firmly behind the 'FIRELAND' movement.

The fact that he would pass this responsibility on to me or any fan is a complete abdication of his responsibilities and makes a mockery of the entire Dolphins organization.

It's time to let him go.

 

Ireland doesn't develop the players, that is the job of the coaching staff. Also there seems to have been a shift in philosophy as to the type of lineman needed from big immobile players to faster intelligent players and it takes time to re-tool an O-line from one scheme to another.

At the moment I would say the jury is out as to the following questions:
1) Is the O-line bad or retooling to a new philosophy?
2) Are the players improving?
3) If the answers to questions (1) and (2) are negative is that because of bad talent acquisition or bad coaching?

If I'm Jeff Ireland at this point I would give the coaching staff at least another 8 games to show how the line is developing. Keep my ears tuned to what the coaching staff want and try to acquire any free agents they covet, but not break the bank on anyone.

If after 8 games the O-Line is not showing signs of adequate it's time to do an analysis of where the problem lies - lack of talent or poor coaching. Pick one solution and work on that. Not saying that if you decide it is bad coaching that you don't draft new players in 2014, more that your main focus is to replace coaches and ensure that training drills etc. in 2014.

 

A rational and reasoned post which, I swear, is really rare here.

This post brought to you by the letter 'R".

 

Ireland is responsible for hiring the right people to develop the OL. He's failing in that role, miserably. At the end of the day it's on him, bottom line.

 

How long should it take to develop a line? 1 year? 1 game? What is acceptable?

 

From what I understand, a lot of the problem with the OL blocking success, especially in the running side, is from the new practice rules with the new CBA. They can only do so much in pads, length of time and how many per week. That hurts teams with new OL's more than the established OL's....IMO.

 

This is a clear case of just bashing Ireland. It's not his job to hire the position coaches. That duty belongs to the Head Coach.

 

I heard that and it makes sense. Run blocking is largely about having an OL that works well together. Fewer padded practices means less time to get that synchronicity down. I noticed how ineffective the majority of run games were this first weekend. I pointed that out so that people would have perspective.

Pass blocking is similar but quick passing and mobile QBs diminish the OL's importance on any given pass play.

 

Well... some months ago there were a number of people raising hell because of the amount of money spent on the offensive line.
Some of that money disappeared.
Now we have people raising hell about the lack of performance on the offensive line.

We just traded one set of malcontents for another!



Whoopee!!

 

Really the only positions I can say Ireland can evaluate effectively are safety and DL. Everything else leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Not sure I get your post. You're blaming Jeff Ireland for a lot of things that are out of his hands. I'm not even a huge Jeff Ireland fan -- I think there's a lot of hit and miss like most GMs and I wouldn't rank him in the upper echelon -- but I do think most of your post here is throwing out a bunch of random offensive line happenings and then laying them all at the foot of one person.

Jeff Ireland did pick Jake Long and Mike Pouncey, so in your opinion, it sounds like those were good picks, regardless of where they were taken (i.e. first overall pick, first center taken that high in the first round). You have doubts about Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas, as a lot of us might, but a lot of times players we doubt end up good over the long run. You even mentioned some. The fans of Miami wanted to run Wade Smith out on a rail, and eventually the coaches did just that. I don't even remember anyone saying at the time, WE NEED TO KEEP EVAN MATHIS!!! Do you remember anyone saying that?

Where I do kind of agree with you is that the Miami Dolphins haven't been great at developing their talent on the offensive line. But developing talent is a coaching function. The fact that as you mentioned, we had Mathis but evaluated his long-term (and really short-term as well) potential incorrectly... I think the blame lies more with the coaching and player personnel evaluating. We obtained the talent, which is the GM's job. Wade Smith was here long before Ireland, but again, the Miami Dolphins as a whole miscast him, buying high and selling low on him, to coin a phrase. But I can remember how unhappy fans were with Smith. Bust. Waste of life. Etc. Except it turns out that he wasn't. Same with Donald Thomas. When he first got drafted, coaches were excited about his punch... then he got hurt and had a hard time recovering. And we ended up giving up on him. Again, that's bad evaluation, but not a bad draft choice, especially not in the 6th round. Really, Ireland should be getting kudos for that instead of taking the wrath.

John Jerry is playing hurt, and he still beat out the other linemen we had in camp. When he gets fully healthy and as he hits his prime, he'll probably be an average guard. That's not a great draft choice, but it isn't a miss or, as you said, a bad draft choice. It drafting a starter in the third round. You have to do that to fill out rosters. Obviously, you have to hit on a few studs as well, but point is, he isn't a bad draft choice if he turns out an average starter at right guard, in the end.

Jonathan Martin wasn't good last year, and he hasn't started well this year, either. I don't think there's a question about that. But he is stronger than last year. And it'll take this season to really see what we have with him. He's going to face a lot of quality pass rushers, and we've got to hope he improves. He gives up too many QB pressures (and sacks/hits overall) at this point, but the jury still has to be out. Tannehill is NOT running for his life as a lot of posters seem to indicate he might be with Martin manning the LT position. Dallas Thomas is a rookie who needs to learn. He's probably going to be best suited as a guard, rather than tackle. The coaches will have a better read, but they don't always make the best choices, as we've pointed out with players that moved on and became good elsewhere.

Most of your post, though, while it says (and can be summarized) "Ireland has done a crappy job of developing the OL"...well, that's not his job as much as it is the coaching staff. His job is to bring talent in, and he's done that to varying degrees. Aside from the aforementioned Long, Pouncey, Thomas, and Jerry, he also has brought in Richie Incognito, who became a Pro Bowler. I do think he made a couple of mistakes with bad contracts for players that had injury histories (Smiley, Grove), but they weren't untalented guys. Justin Smiley, I believe if I'm remembering correctly, had one really pretty good year here before he was injured again and later traded to Jax. Likewise, you mentioned the Shawn Murphy draft, which wasn't a good choice, but that happens. However, to say he has done a horrible job of developing the OL is just a misrepresentation, both of what he's done and where to assess the proper blame.

 

...plus how can anyone have enough info to say this coaching staff is good or bad at developing Olineman yet?

 

I hope our running game isn't so miserable as to make 40-50 yards an acceptable benchmark.

 

Yeah, this coaching staff hasn't had the time where you can make an educated decision. I tried to be careful to write the Miami Dolphins rather than point to one particular coaching staff, because there have been a few since Wannstedt's (who selected Wade Smith) regime. But as a whole, I think we've given up on guys too early.

Seems like (some) fans are disgusted with Martin, Jerry, and, to a lesser degree, Thomas as this point (and with Thomas, it's way too early for any type of judgment). But those guys go elsewhere at this point, and I'd bet a dollar to a donut that one of them becomes a Pro Bowler somewhere else.

 

how can anyone have confidence in ireland using picks on oline guys?

 

Oh so now we're blaming the coaches for "failing to develop" these lineman...sounds like a cop out to deflect blame from the guy who chooses which lineman to draft and sign. we didn't fail to develop Donald Thomas, he made his impact felt right away when he won the starting job as a rookie and Parcells called him a godsend, he got hurt in his very first game and missed the season but recovered to help pave the way for a top 5 rushing attack the following year, the one time in 6 (going on 7) seasons that we had a good offensive line. releasing a player too early in his career when he's proven his ability on the field and his contract is a non-issue is a front office mistake, period...that's on Ireland and Parcells. We didn't fail to develop Murphy, he just sucks. Same with Gardner, John Jerry, Samuda, Hicks, Berger, Cook, Mcquistan, Procter, Murtha, Yeatman etc etc....the jury is still out on Martin and Dallas Thomas but at this point I don't see Martin as our starting left tackle in 2014, though I do think Dallas T is a little tougher and has a better chance to develop into a nice player.

 

Players don't magically get better. They work at it. They're coached to get better. When coaches don't think the player is getting better and think his plateau has been reached and it's not enough, that word gets to the front office where a decision is made. The decision is on everyone. The Miami Dolphins.

But when the players excel and blossom under other coaching staffs but don't under ours -- you're going to blame the GM for not bringing in talent? Right.

 

Then why is John Jerry still here? He did absolutely nothing his first couple years, in fact he regressed, Thomas was better than him yet we let him go after 2 seasons. It's easier to let the coaches convince you to sever ties with a 6th rounder rather than the guy you took with your 3rd pick in the draft.

 

Your analyses leave a lot to be desired .

 

History has proven otherwise

 

Actually, you've convinced me that we scout, assess and draft the right o-linemen.

But once in house they are not properly developed nor properly assessed.

Sounds like the scouts do a good job, actually.

ANd the coaches don't. Then when the coaches tell Ireland 'this guy is good or ba' when we do reviews of which players are improving, we are making bad decisions. I'm guessing the same coaches that havedn't/haven't developed these guys are the same ones in the room givng their opinions on which OL are doing well and which ones aren't... leading to releasing the wrong guys.

You may be wrong about thinking these players would have gotten just as good here, because they probably wouldn;t have, if the coaches here have not developed Olinemen. In Miami, if you show up as a great player to start with (1st rounders like Long and Pouncey) then you do well. If you need the coaches to develop you, then forget it.

But we've gone through several O line coaches... so what's the solution? Another new O-line coach? Not sure that's it. But I am increasingly sure it's NOT about the substance the coaches are being given to work with. Seems like the scouting and drafting is mostly there... mostly bringing in guys with the potential to be good starters. It's IN HOUSE with the coaching that the ball seems to be gettig dropped.

 

Branden Albert, for one.

And so far, Jerry in shape isn't doing that much better than Jerry out of shape.

Don't get me wrong. I hope they get it together.

 

Because Jerry is still coming back form injury.

 

So if it were up to you, you'd have traded the requisite picks (possibly a 2nd or more) for Albert and signed him to a big $ deal?

 

Yes.

 

I can understand why you'd do it, but it'd be way too much to give up in my opinion. If I had a higher opinion of Albert (I think he's quite good; definitely better than Martin) and not worried about his back I might consider it more, but I couldn't justify giving up both the pick and huge contract.