Barry jackson Sports Buzz: Disturbing trend that should concern Dolphins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Whenever the Dolphins face New England, we’re always reminded how Bill Belichick can take players that the Dolphins deemed expendable –-- specifically Wes Welker (now with Denver) and Rob Ninkovich (19.5 sacks over the past three-plus seasons) – and turn them into key starters.

    This raises a larger disconcerting issue: Of the veterans that joined the Dolphins from other NFL teams in recent years – via trade or free agency – several have become less productive after coming here.

    Conversely, several key veterans who recently bolted Miami have become more productive elsewhere.

    What does this say about the Dolphins? In many ways, it’s a reflection of coaching, of personnel evaluation, of the player’s maturity, of the quality of players around them, among other factors.

    Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...s-heat-marlins-notes-um-wake-postscripts.html
     
    Aquafin, Bpk and toto like this.
  2. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    ps

    What a great article, every Dolphins fan should read it and hopefully Stephen Ross will, too. Barry Jackson nailed it, this part sums it up well:

    It used to be, as per Bum Phillips (R.I.P. Bum) Shula would take hisn' and beat your'n and take yourn' and beat hisn'. Well, the wheel certainly turned on that one- let's face it, that quote describes over the last 15 years or so what Bill Bellichick and the Patriots have been doing to us. Things haven't been the same down here since Wayne Huizenga dumped Don Shula- add Dave Wannestedt, Cam Cameron and Tony Sparano to that mix and it's easy to see in hindsight what happened to this franchise. Philbin- the jury is out.

    I'm not a fan of Jeff Ireland, I don't necessarily hate the guy either, but I certainly think that we could get a better GM in Miami.

    I was just thinking of all that Shula did for Miami despite the Joe Robbie issues and then getting dumped by Huizenga and dumped on by Jimmy Johnson. And yet he took it like a man, kept his head high, moved on to great success with his restaurants and remained a loyal part of the Dolphins family. Shula wasn't perfect, no one is. His drafting lacked, but then again we lost Bobby Beathard due to a feud with Joe Robbie and Robbie let George Young go to the Giants. It's embarrassing as a Dolphins fan, looking back, to think about how Shula was treated at the end- hard to believe that was 18 years ago. And the last 18 years for the Dolphins? That's probably karma kicking the franchise and Wayne Huizenga in the ***. What a terribly trade for Huizenga- he dumped the best of coaches in Shula and what he got in return was a succession of crappy pretenders to the throne and more than 15 years of misery and frustration.
     
    PhinsRock and cdz12250 like this.
  3. toto

    toto Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,280
    2,540
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Vellmar, Germany
    Great point in my opinion!

    That is exactly the biggest problem over the last couple years. Having coaches bringing in their system and want the players to execute it no matter what.

    To change things quickly you need coaches who are able to adapt and build the system around the players. We have seen too many players come in here and ask to do certain things or play in a certain system they are not capable of doing at a high level.

    And though I like Philbin I fear our current staff is no different in that area. Maybe it's more on the coordinaters and Philbin is giving them too much free reign...
     
    Bpk, MikeHoncho and jim1 like this.
  4. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

    23,327
    35,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Unfortunately much of that is due to too many rookie HCs and GMs doing their on the job training and internship on the Dolphin team and leaving a mess in the process.
     
    jdang307, PhinsRock, Bpk and 2 others like this.
  5. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,885
    24,850
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    Part of it's true but wishing Shula stayed on longer is just plain stupid. I love Shula, but his GM-ing the last few years was god-awful, made Ireland look like Ozzie Newsome
     
  6. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    What makes reading this article so tough is to see that Jake Long, Vontae Davis, and Sean Smith are all playing much better for their new teams than they did for the Dolphins while they were here. Yet the play of Wheeler, Ellerbe, and Wallace have all seemed to decline in their play after signing with the Dolphins.

    It just makes it seem that much of the problems with the Dolphins is in the coaching staff and their inability to get the maximum out of their players. First it was a problem under Sparano and now it seems to be continuing with Philbin at the helm. Perhaps the fact Sparano had limited time as a college HC and Philbin had never been a HC at any level has a lot to do with the fact players just don't develop as well under their leadership. Yet many former Dolphins have had success once they have left Miami and worked with better coaching staffs around the NFL.

    Philbin deserves to see how this season plays out, but if this team once again finishes at 500 or below. It might be time for Ross to let the next GM select his own head coach for this team. Hopefully if this happens, the next head coach will have more experience at this position than Sparano and Philbin and he will also be able to put together a quality coaching staff under him. I think right now, the Dolphins assistant coaching staff is a major weakness in the Dolphin organization.
     
  7. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    True, but how many of them should have been training for the head coaching job in the first place? Cam Cameron? Tony Sparano? Will Joe Philbin be added to that list? Not sure, but I'd take him over Cameron and Sparano- on the downside, he seems about as charismatic as a handful of dirt. And the almighty whiff of behind known as Dave Wannestedt- I'll never know how Huizenga approved, or Jimmy Johnson recommended, Wannesdedt for the HC job after he screwed up the Chicago Bears- then again, the Jets hired Sparano as OC after his cloud of dirt/field goal run with us- talk about a head scratcher. Anyway, Wannestedt he had a barely acceptable run at Pitt- was of course fired- and now he's the special teams coach at Tampa Bay- that's a career in reverse.

    Hindsite is indeed 20/20, but from almost any angle, past or present, there have been a number of coaching and FO moves that seemed anywhere from questionable to downright stinky. We used to be one of the teams that took our talent and the castoff, discarded talent from other teams and won with it, made the best of it. Now we're one of the gems of the garbage pile, teams picking through our roster and throwaways to find players with talent that we weren't able to extract. That's at best coaching and FO misjudgement, at worst downright incompetence. Man, the 80's- we had Shula, Marino and Sundays and Monday Night Football were the best shows in town. I didn't know I had to so good.

    If Philbin flames out it might be time to get a name coach, if possible. Maybe a guy like Bill Cowher- actually Andy Reid worked out well. Jon Gruden- I just don't know. If Shula were younger I would say bring him back if he wanted to give it a go, try to undo the disaster of his firing 18 years ago. I still cringe when I think about that one.

    If I read correctly Don Shula's health is declining- Mr. Shula, wherever you are, thank you so much for the winning, the games, the memories that I enjoyed for so many years of my youth. You are truly missed.
     
    cdz12250 likes this.
  8. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Shula's drafting wasn't great, I addressed that, and he made that big free agency push in the last year or two that didn't work out. JJ was around for 4 decent years, then we had the Wanny/Saban/Cameron/Sparano Age of Disaster. You'd take that over Shula? If you're looking for just plain stupid when it comes to this issue, there's probably a mirror around you, stop by for a look.

    Bobby Beathard was a big part of Miami's success in the 70's, then we had George Young who was instrumental in the Giants run of the 80's and 90's. We lost them both, and that hurt- I wasn't a big fan of some of Shula's drafting and personnel moves either. But having lived through the Shula years of the 70's and 80's and being able to compare that to the parade of clowns- Wannesdedt/Cameron/Sparano- and the clownish drama of Jimmy Johnson and Nick "The Dick" Saban- there is no comparison. I was too young to remember the 1972-73 Super Bowl years, but some of those 80's years were great with Shula and Marino- we won a lot of games, the games were exciting and Shula ran a solid, stable ship. Sundays were great and Mondays were great with the Don Shula Show and Monday Night Football. And when the Dolphins were on Monday Night Football- forget about it, as the saying goes.

    Nothing is ever simple- Shula did screw the pooch on several drafts and some free agency moves. Marino would eventually have to retire, time change. But if I could magically wipe out JJ/Wanny/Cameron/Saban/Sparano and have Shula for all of those years? Hell yes I would.
     
  9. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

    2,228
    1,004
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Indianapolis
    Dead on.... felt that way about Dolphins player for a long time.
     
  10. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,870
    3,766
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    That article says it all.But we are ****ed because the stupid moron of an owner gave this jackass an extenstion.You don't win the season in free agency idiot!!!!Let the season play out before rewarding this guy.
    If he made the playoffs then yea give him an extension but that seems like a pipedream now unless we pull off some miracle finish.This owner needs to sell the dam team!!!!!!!
     
  11. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

    770
    160
    0
    Dec 8, 2007
    He didn't make welker good, we knew what we had when we let him go. We didn't have a qb to get him the ball. Signin undrafted free agents an getting second round picks for them is never a bad move.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Bull****, usual "woe is us" crap that I have no time for..do notice Ninkovich's knee blowout is not mentioned, oh of course, some dolfans are willing to just jettison Misi already.
     
  13. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,870
    3,766
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    So explain why we suck year in and year out?
     
  14. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Seriously?

    5× Pro Bowl (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
    2× AP First-Team All-Pro selection (2009, 2011)
    2× AP Second-Team All-Pro selection (2007, 2008)
    3× NFL receptions leader (2007 (tied), 2009, 2011)
    2× AFC champion (2007, 2011)
    2× Ed Block Courage Award (2007, 2010)
    AFC receiving yards leader (2011)
    Mosi Tatupu Award (2003)
    New England Patriots 12th Player Award (2007)
    Pop Warner Inspiration to Youth Award (2008)
    Longest reception in NFL history (tied, 99 yards)
    New England Patriots All-2000s Team

    Receptions 805
    Receiving yards 8,958
    Average 11.1
    Receiving TDs 46

    Wannestedt refused to get a QB who could get him the ball, who's fault is that? This is about talent recognition and development. Bellichick knew that Welker was talented and a major thorn in his side who played against hime twice a year for a division rival. So he got him- do you think that he cared about spending a 2nd round pick on an undrafted free agent? No, because he was judging by talent and what Welker did in the NFL, not by his draft status. Bellichick was smart, and as with Larry Izzo, Rob Ninkovich and all the others he used his intelligence to acquire good players from us, develop them and use them to help build winning teams. Our coaches since Shula have been a clown college in comparison.
     
  15. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Is there a "Worst Post of the Month" award? if so, I nominate this one. Beyond that, it's not worth responding to.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Gosh, thanks, been around awhile, know how this tune goes.

    Why not just toss in Drew Brees as well
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    B/c we've yet to find a coach who demands professionalism from players and they constantly make game losing errors
     
  18. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,388
    49,019
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    If you've been paying attention, it's merely the vicious cycle continuing. I think it's worth noting that Joe Philbin has an identical record to Nick Saban after 22 games, each being 10-12. Most people scoffed at Nick Saban's record upon leaving for Alabama - it was 15-17. If Joe Philbin is the same or worse after two seasons...I'll leave that open for interpretation.
     
  19. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,388
    49,019
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I think you could add having a front office staff, including the general manager, that is 100% on the same page with the coaching staff in the type of players that should be acquired to fit the system, and a coaching staff that is able to tailor the system to fit the players and not vice-versa. Hence, the vicious cycle.
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Yep, blue collar players are fine, what you want is driven athletes who are blue collar players.

    Ireland acts as if it is one or the other..foolish.

    Philbin, whom I like, HAS to drive these guys
     
    RoninFin4 likes this.
  21. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    That's part of it, missing on him twice. The point of the article is that there's a lot of evidence that this franchise has been mismanaged, and I agree with that. That being said, I could have voiced my disagreement with you otherwise, sorry about that.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Barry really pulled out the knives on this one. Yikes.
     
    RoninFin4 likes this.
  23. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    I don't look at it that way. The story is especially relevant with us playing the Pats today given that whole drain of talent in their favor, and Jackson was stating facts more than giving scathing opinions. Case in point: "So Philbin probably was too hasty in judging Davis." I would't call that a harsh assessment.

    I think that Jackson was spot on with this article, and I certainly hope that Stephen Ross reads it.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    87,129
    54,296
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    :yawn:
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,173
    58,082
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    That's not really an accurate picture. Marshall and Bush have been better elsewhere than they have here, but the rest are pretty well devoid of appropriate context.

    I don't think either Sean Smith or Vontae Davis have suddenly become what they were supposed to be. Both of them have largely continued to play like they have in Miami. Sean Smith has played solidly for Kansas City, but in Miami he was either playing incredibly well for stretches(better than he has thus far for KC), or god-awfully. Right now he's a +3.3 in coverage. Vontae Davis had an incredible game vs. the Broncos, but I'm pretty well doubtful that represents a dramatic shift for him. Outside of that game both this year and last with the Colts he's been the same old Vontae.

    Jake Long has been better this year, but he's not the pass protector he once was(28th there), and the huge problem is his health. Him making it through a little more than a third of a season doesn't really suggest he's suddenly started over fresh in that regard.
     
  26. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    They're all playing better, even Ted Ginn. And conversely, Mike Wallace is playing worse, Ellerbe is a questionable acquisition at this point- I'd rather have Misi in the middle and Jordan at OLB. The Colts had Vontae Davis in press where he belongs, and he looked outstanding against the Broncos, I watched that game and enjoyed keying on him. In this year and previous years I think that it's pretty cleat that we've gotten the short end of the stick in this whole talent swap issue.
     
  27. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

    14,523
    22,246
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sunny Florida
    I don't think the extension itself would stop Ross from making a move. He extended Tony Sparano in 2011 then fired during that season.

    I don't think Ireland is all bad, but I don't believe he's the guy to get us to the next level. Too much whack-a-mole.....solve one position, another becomes a gaping hole.

    I'm also not confident in the head coach. I don't think he's the guy either. I'm not convinced he can lead men and I don't believe this is a well-coached team save for a few positions. And they are too slow or often appear too stubborn to adjust.

    I wonder what this team would look like if Mike McCoy was hired instead.
     
    byroan, jim1 and RoninFin4 like this.
  28. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Well said.
     
  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,870
    3,766
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Good point and I hope you are right.I agree this coaching staff has to go also.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Or John Fox.

    They really blew it in 2011, IMO. Sparano was on the ropes. It was clear as day. Just fire the man, begin your search, interview your candidates and make an honest attempt to find the next head coach of the Miami Dolphins.

    They really expect Jim Harbaugh to take them seriously when they've only got their toe in the water to the extent that they haven't even fired their head coach yet and were bringing the General Manager that was hired along with Sparano and helped create the mess into the meeting room with them?

    I'll tell you what if Art Briles wants a shot at the NFL, I'd give it to him. Even if it ends in failure, it'll be a fun ride along the way.
     
    Muck likes this.
  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,173
    58,082
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Yes, they're all playing better, but the question is if it is in a way that matters- That different decisions should have been made as far as re-signing them. I don't think that's the case.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,388
    49,019
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Gaaahhh, more bad flashbacks.
     
  33. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    If Philbin has the same or worse record than Saban after two years as the HC, (especially with what is suppose to be better overall talent than Saban had with the Dolphins), hopefully another college will come along and offer to take Philbin off our hands. But I doubt it.
     
  34. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    The point of the article is, are we maximizing the talent that we have, and is the talent that we let go performing better under different management? Signing players, resigning them, letting them go- those are big issues.


    As was mentioned in a different post and this article, look at Evan Mathis- that is a hefty swing and a miss, especially considering the stae of our offensive line. We could have had Mathis and Donald Thomas at Guard- combine that with Jake Long and we're a RT short of an outstanding OL. I like Incognito, but this was possible prior to the Dion Jordan trade (and I do like Jordan):

    Long/Thomas/Pouncey/Mathis/Menelik Watson.

    I'd take that in a heartbeat.
     
  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    I don't see this as pulling out the knives as much as it is, stating the obvious.
     
    jim1 likes this.
  36. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Stating the obvious but stating is well imo, excellent article.
     
  37. smhemi

    smhemi Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    165
    91
    28
    Dec 8, 2007
    You can throw Wade Smith in there too:up:
     
  38. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

    4,749
    1,940
    113
    Oct 9, 2009
    New York
    And we can't draft worth a $hit.

    As for the article its all very true and sobering. Oh, by the way: Ted Ginn Jr 2013 stats - 357 Yards, 2 TDs 17.8 YPC. Mike Wallace - 357 Yards, 1 TD, 13.2 YPC.
     
  39. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Evan Mathis and Wade Smith both developing to Pro Bowl levels (All Pro for Mathis) surprised me for sure- Donald Thomas developing onto a solid starting OG, not so much. But then again, I'm not getting paid to evaluate these players. Those in charge of coaching and managing these players screwed the pooch, bottom line.
     
  40. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Yikes.
     

Share This Page