A word about Luck/RG3/Wilson and really Kapernick Sometimes where a Qb lands is as important as any innate skill they may have. Put it this way, Luck and RG3 both landed on teams with last place schedules Wilson and CKap landed on playoff caliber teams Tannehill landed a very mediocre 6-10 squad, not good enough to win consistently, not good enough to lose and land a favorable schedule The way the league works is by design, last place teams now have the greatest opportunity to improve the next season possibly making the playoff due to playing other last place teams. Playoff teams wind up with that playoff schedule which runs them through Divisional Winners etc, instead of Walking Corpse franchises like Jax, you find yourselves in Seattle That said, these last 4 games will really tell the tale about what sort of Qb Tannehill is, the playoffs are directly in front of us if we win, stats do matter, not as much as W's and L's though. When we can roll into Pitt, a franchise having a down yr but with a good Qb, and we are all confident we'll win that game, that is when Tannehill has arrived and everyone should buy in.
You're reaching. I mean, we play 4 games a year against the Jets and Bills. Only two games out of 16 are determined by what place you finished the season prior. The other 14 include 6 in your division + 8 in a rotation of division matchups (we played the entire AFC North and NFC South this year, as did the rest of our division).
I haven't heard Russell talk about God more than the average NFL football player. Most stories I hear about him is about his work with children. The guy is so likable.
I don't want to change this argument either, but I want to have a word too. Wilson wasn't on a playoff team. They were on the same mediocre 7-9 type team Tannehill came into. They were all over the place with poor roster moves and question marks. Pundits picked them to be a Top 5 pick. Russell Wilson didn't land in a good situation. For me, he created that situation. That's just my opinion. I disagree with all of it and I'll leave it at that.
Agree. He reminds me of Derek Jeter, from a Yankees fan perspective. Now, they're different guys. But, both are honest and discreet. Trumping everything is the team concept and just wanting to win all the time. Respect Russell Wilson a ton.
How bout he's just a great Qb period..he makes everyone around him better..he's a great leader...he's incredibly smart about his perspectives on life..I think he would be just as good if you changed up his skill players.
I'm pretty encouraged by Tanny. The only big problems I can see are his anticipation and accuracy on throws that require more touch than average. Given his accuracy on most throws, I think when it's off it's because of his throwing motion. I'm not sure how much he can do to improve it without messing with his mechanics too much. But I'd like to see it improved. Reading defenses and seeing things quicker is hopefully something that comes with more experience. Even Peyton Manning didn't become the Peyton Manning he is now in two years, where he seemingly knows exactly what the defense will do the vast majority of the time and make a good decision almost as often. Seriously, that guy's ridiculous.
His AYPA is down from last year, he's ranked the same in WPA as he was last year, higher in EPA, and lower in DVOA. However, I don't feel down on him at this point.
Excellent observation imo about the touch thing...Ryan uses his body tremendously in his mechanics, touch throws require a bit more flexibility in the arm and hand.. Folks like to point out the throw to Simms in the endzone and the miller pass as great touch throws, I would counter that with that they were effective throws, but if you notice the trajectory on the passes and where the ball is being let go from it doesn't mesh with being consistent in that dept, it's unorthodox imo..
Through 12 games last season, Tannehill was 210 of 363 for 2559 passing yards. His completion % was 56.8 and he threw 7 TDs and 12 INTs. He has also ran 30 times for 82 yards and 2 rushing TDs. [TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]CMP[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]ATT[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]YDS[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]CMP%[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]TD[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]INT[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: center"]RAT[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]20[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]36[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]219[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]55.6[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]3[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]39[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]18[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]30[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]200[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]60[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]91[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]16[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]36[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]196[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]44.4[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]50.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]26[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]41[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]431[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]63.4[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]2[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]86.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]17[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]26[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]223[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]65.4[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]92.3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]21[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]29[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]185[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]72.4[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]2[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]112[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]2[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]5[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]18[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]40[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]50.4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]22[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]38[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]290[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]57.9[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]90.9[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]23[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]39[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]217[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]59[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]3[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]42.4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]14[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]28[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]141[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]50[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]2[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]46.9[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]18[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]26[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]253[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]69.2[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]1[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]97.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]13[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]29[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]186[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]44.8[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]0[/TD] [TD="width: 64, align: right"]66.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [TD="width: 64"][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: right"]210[/TD] [TD="align: right"]363[/TD] [TD="align: right"]2559[/TD] [TD="align: right"]56.8[/TD] [TD="align: right"]7[/TD] [TD="align: right"]12[/TD] [TD="align: right"]72.1[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] 2013: 280 of 451 for 3,115 yards, 62.1 comp%. 17 TDs and 13 INTs. His Rating is at 83.2
Nobody can guarantee whether any QB will become an elite franchise QB. You can't even say that about Luck, who is arguably the QB prospect to come out of the draft ever. You couldn't have said that about Elway or Manning in their second years either and they're probably the other two QBs people would argue were the best QB prospects ever. Wanting or expecting someone to give that to you regarding RT is simply an impossible standard. What you want to see in a second year QB is elite physical attributes, progress on the mental aspects, a studious personality and leadership. RT has shown all of those. That part isn't even debatable in any reasonable way. Luck has three of the four but has not shown as much progress on the mental aspects. Wilson has also shown all four, but has had the strongest supporting cast by far. RT is clearly among the top two year QB prospects in the league. Even among the top three year prospects (Newton, CKap and Dalton), RT fares well. Newton is playing the best of the lot, but you wouldn't have said that last season. CKap still struggles from the pocket and wasn't able to carry the team when their run game struggled. Dalton is easily behind RT as a prospect. His stats are decent, but he hasn't been able to carry the team like RT has. That ability is what makes the Henne comparisons laughable in all but the most simplistic of views(QBs who played in Miami). Henne never showed the ability to carry the team with no run game. In his best year he had fewer 300 yard games and was below RT's TD total in 12 games this year. That's what you look at when you're trying to project a QB's ceiling. Is he going to be a game manager or a guy that can carry a team? Obviously, no QB can carry a team every week, especially against good opponents. But you want to see that happen on occasion. The more often a QB can do that, the greater he'll be. Even inconsistent QBs, like Favre, will still be seen as great if they can carry the team enough times. (RT is already a more consistent QB than Favre was. He's not as explosive yet, but ahead of where Favre was in year 2 or even year 3). Of course, RT has areas he can improve in. Every QB in the league does. Mentioning that those deficiencies does not in any way support the argument that RT isn't a potential elite franchise QB since every QB in the league has several WTF throws per game. Heck, every QB in the league has WTF games. I can only guess that those making the games don't watch any non-Miami games or at least don't pay attention to every throw other QBs make/miss. Obviously RT needs more consistency. When you have an inconsistent run game and horrible protection every QB will be inconsistent. Despite that it's obvious that RT has become more consistent as the season progressed. Over the last 5 games his QBR's have all been between 84 and 94. (Earlier in the year the ratings ranged from 58 - 107, 39 - 123 in 2012). That is by all accounts a significant consistent stretch, a stretch that included three top 10 pass defenses. Were there inconsistent passes in those games, sure, but no more than other QBs. Or more accurately, no more than other elite, franchise QBs.
They were a 7-9 wildcard team. Have the leagues best back and a great defense, your right, sooooo comparable to what tannehill stepped into
You mean like Reggie Bush? lol... I'm glad to see Tannehill progressing. I've maintained all along that his second year wasn't about becoming elite, but simply gaining more experience and executing. While there have been plenty of hiccups, he's getting there. Even more promising is he's doing it in a handicapped offense with questionable reciever play from his #1 and terrible oline protection. Hopefully as time goes on, we'll be able to fix those problems. And who knows, maybe another off-season with Wallace and an improved oline will allow better timing and/or chemistry.
I feel Lamar Miller can be that back. He's quick and has shown pass catching ability on screens and wheels. Not buying him as an every down back. Need a bigger and more physical back to pair with him.
Maybe a more disciplined version of Reggie Bush. I actually think that Miller may be good enough as a feature back as long as we added a better short yardage guy to pair with him. I'm a big fan of having/using a receiving back as an outlet. I prefer that to heavy doses of max protect, but I'm not sure that's in the design of our offense. We have used more screens lately so maybe (hopefully!) the coaches are slowly adapting.
Great stats on Tannehill. No question showing a lot of growth. Other than the few top tier guys not many other QB's have as much responsibilities as he does. Excited about this team moving forward
I agree that Tannehill has shown improvement and he is beginning to look like he MIGHT be the long term solution for the Dolphins at the QB position. I still want to see him be more effective in the fourth quarter of games when the game is close and the Dolphins need a score to win the game. He has only led the team to two victories in the closing minutes of a game in the past 28 games. Top tier QB's are best when the game is on the line in the fourth quarter and Tannehill needs to vastly improve in this area before I can buy into him 100%. It should also be noted that the best two QB's in the NFL from the 2012 draft at this time are Wilson and Foles. Neither of them were selected in the first round of the 2012 draft. Ireland appears to have done a decent job in selecting Tannehill, but he could have done a better job by drafting Kuechly in the first round and Wilson or Foles in the second round of the 2012 draft.
Oh..I didnt hear that part, yeh, not big on that either. Its ok to thank "god" if thats your belief....but...leave the preaching elsewhere
Lamar Miller is 5-10, 212. He is plenty big to be an every down back. And I don't think he has any real injury history or durability concerns in college or the pros.
Wilson just picked apart a top defense last night. He does have a great RB but not last night. They have a great rushing attack but how much is that due to their insistence on running and our lack of commitment to it? Wilson is clearly on another level already and is far ahead of all 2nd year QBs in my opinion. His ability to throw on the run is phenomenal. Another year like this and he's 2nd tier for me, right below the elites.
No, I'm saying I don't want to see potential, I want to see performance. 4-6 games of consistent high level play. I don't want to point to one throw. Just as everyone has bad throws, everyone has great ones too. Hell Henne had a few over the shoulder throws. Can Tannehill go on a run like Nick Foles or Cam Newton? Foles is a 2nd year player himself.
I've seen Wilson do enough individually to believe that he's a great player that would thrive under any circumstances..you need more proof, that's cool.
Wilson or Foles should have been selected in the first round. A better job isn't having a time machine and drafting with previous knowledge. If Ireland knew that they were the best QBs in the draft, they should have been the first round pick. This team was not in a position to rely on a 2nd round quarterback.
I've defended Ireland in the past against extreme or unreasonable criticism, but it's not necessarily MMQBing to say he should have taken Keuchly in the 1st and Wilson in the 2nd. That's how I felt at the time. I don't think doing what he did was crazy at all, but it certainly wasn't the only reasonable option. And counting on Wilson falling to the 2nd round carried some risk, but was a pretty smart bet, as there was little to no talk of his going in the first round.
Totally disagree. Wilson has done it. He willed that comeback against Washington in the playoffs. He came back against the Falcons last year and the defense let him down. He also played a phenomenal game against the Bears where he "put the team on his back". I know you live in Seattle Travis so you see it, but I just disagree. I'm not sure if it's just semantics on what it means to "will" a team to victory, like not a single other part needs to work. However, Russell Wilson has done it.
Exactly! I'm a big Wilson fan and was even before he was drafted, but the reality is that he's had a ton of advantages. I agree that RT would also have looked great given the same situation. I don't know which QB would have been better, but there are equally reasonable arguments for either Wilson or RT being the better QB given identical circumstances.
Disagree pretty strongly here. Wilson is a primetime gamer, something we haven't seen Tannehill do yet. Wilson's playoff game as a rookie (his second playoff game since he, ya know, won the first one) on the road against the NFC's #1 seed: 24/36 for 385 2TDs, 60 rushing with another TD. He was as red hot as you can get in that game and his defense gave up a score in like 30 seconds to lose it. And last night, bright lights of MNF, he lit up a strong Saints Defense with the mighty pass-catching crew of Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Zach Miller, and Jermaine Kearse.
I would say the better comparison is Luck, would luck be just as good with Wilson's variables, the answer, yes imo, Folks having questions about Luck seems bizarre as hell to me..That guy is every bit as good as he was when he came out..same guy.. his two best offensive weapons were ir'd early, has no run game, poor oline..still 8 and 4. The revelation that some should be having is realizing how great of prospect Wilson was when he came out.
One could argue that could have been because the Saints game plan was to stop the run which allowed Wilson to thrive. I'm not in any way bagging on Wilson, he's a stud. But having that kind of a running game changes things quite a bit.
It was his height. I was blown away by some of the footage of Wilson and how efficient he was in college. Dude had it all, except height. Very accurate, exceedingly mobile, pocket presence, head for the game, clutch, everything. He was a no brainer if he was a few inches taller. Loved him as a player, but I figured that he'd slide because he was so short for a QB. He's turned into one heck of an NFL QB, good for him. Even though he lost the game against us last year, I was really impressed by him and it stuck with me how in control he seemed to be in the pocket. Definitely a gamer, a guy that you want behind Center in the clutch.
What makes it even worse is that both Wilson and Foles weren't even drafted until the third round of the 2012 draft. In fact the Seahawks drafted four players in the first two rounds of the draft before selecting Wilson with their fifth overall selection in the draft. I think eventually Luck will probably end up having the best career in the NFL, but I have seen enough of Wilson to believe he will be the second best QB taken in the 2012 draft. I think Foles will probably end up being the third best QB taken in the 2012 draft and RG3 and Tannehill will both end up having good but not great careers. The only reason Wilson wasn't drafted before Tannehill was simply because all the teams were scared of his height. They felt he was too short to play QB in the NFL. He was a much better QB in college than Tannehill, but teams just looked at his size instead of his overall ability. I'll admit that going into the draft I wanted the Dolphins to take Kuechly with the 8th pick, but I also wanted them to take Wilson with their second round pick. I was completely shocked when he lasted until the third round. As far as Foles goes, I didn't think he would be as good as he is, but I had listed him as a QB I would like to see the Dolphins take in the second or third round if Wilson wasn't available when the Dolphins drafted in the second round. To me, Wilson and Foles, so far have been the steals of the 2012 draft.
They are 20th in yds per game and 9th in yards per carry. They haven't hit 70yds only twice I think (we've had less than that 4 times, including 3 games under 25).
