Why can't we allow each other to believe in what we want to believe in, state our opinions in such a way where there are not judged in some way that makes us enemies of one another...intelligence comes in different forms, sometimes it comes out in a way that may rub you the wrong way, it takes even more intelligence to not allow that to happen..
People are entitled to their opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts. That's what's going on here.
Not sure I'd agree. I think Coyle (and probably with Philbin and Ireland on board as well) wanted something different for attacking the A gaps. The question is who thought Ellerbe and Wheeler were the answers?
The coaching staff may have let their wishes known to replace Dansby and Burnett, as well as the signing of Ellerbe and Wheeler, but as for it coming to fruition, the buck stops with Ireland.
I yield to the sense of the committee. Thinking it over, maybe the coaching staff wanted, for example, more speed than Barnett and Dansby were providing, and Ireland went out to find free agents to fit the request. Meaning they share the blame.
I think the coaching staff was clearly in on the exchange, but I don't think it was speed so much as blitzing. Coyle wants to run his double A-gap stuff, and Dansby and Burnett weren't getting it done in that regard and the two we got were the best on the market in that regard.
I agree with you actually. But just a day or so ago you said anyone who blames Jeff Ireland for allowing Jake Long, Sean Smith, Karlos Dansby, Brandon Marshall, Vontae Davis or Reggie Bush walk are just biased. You stated it as a matter of FACT too.
This is where if the team had paid attention to the stats, they would not have given Ellerbe that contract. Dannell Ellerbe has been a negative player for his entire career. He's had one season where he graded out positively. That was last year in a different scheme. In his three previous seasons, the highest grade he received was a -5.5. Last year, he was a plus 5.0 I believe. Karlos Dansby was a +6.0 last year, which was his worst with the Dolphins but only by a little. He previously graded as a 8.6 and 8.9. I haven't look at Wheeler's numbers but I"m guess they are similar.
Wheeler graded positively by a significant margin in both 2011 and 2012. Remember he was playing in a Tampa Two scheme to which he was never really suited until he got to Oakland in 2012 and played in a more aggressive scheme. But he still made it work his final year in Indy.
I don't think anyone would argue that the is plenty of blame to go around. the point here is what is the common denominator in all this? who is the one with final say and who has put this thing together? I'm seeing plenty of post from the majority of poster(save Strringer) that final say on all thing s personnel belong to Ireland. I'm pretty sure most would agree that the talent lvl on this team since Ireland has been here has been mediocre at best. and even if you take away the years that tuna was here you still have 3+ years of .. mediocre talent. I have been one to side with lets see what he can do. but now that I see how he has been dumping all over the OL for how long now? and it still is one of if not the worst OL's in the league. something needs to change
oh I'm sure it was considered and I seem to remember Ireland stating that it is now his job to get the players that Philbin needed to run his team. I can't imagine that Coach was satisfied with the talent, or lack there of, on the OL. I may very well be wrong here buut I think Coach knows what type of player/talent he needs to run the sytems he prefers. If he was ok with this then I fully support cleaning house...completely.
I don't see anyone saying any such thing. final say is final say. good or bad. there has been good but the bad has been glaringly bad and borderline criminal (see: the O line)
This is where there is a large gray area in this discussion, I'd be willing to bet money that it wasn't Ireland's idea to jettisoned Dansby and Burnett, he literally went out and signed both of those guys as free agents.. Did he do a good job replacing the guys he originally wanted..no, but his original choices are playing better than these guys, Dansby is blowing away the competition. Is there no room for criticism of a staff that could not win over a player like Dansby.?.
Huh?... If your first year coaching staff comes to you after a year of film and says you don't want x and y on your team?, I'm not sure as a GM you can say no.
Very clearly...doesn't seem anyone really wants to acknowledge those minor details either, just like folks who wish Brandon Marshall was still here but do not quantify it in their criticisms of Ireland.. I'm just trying to be fair man, assess blame where logic dictates, we know damn well this staff didn't want Vontae, smith, Marshall, Dansby,Burnett, and Reggie bush.. Anyone who doesn't believe that was the case seemingly is brushing a lot of clues under the rug, or can't see the rug.
Just saw what you posted...yes, I stated my opinion, but I don't want you to take it the wrong way, it may just be how the mind works, once your committed to your stance, you can't see the clues anymore.. Ck, if your telling me that Philbin and company didn't recommend a different direction from the players I've mentioned, when Ireland in your opinion drafted and aquired them, then on what grounds and logic are you basing that off..holy sh&$.
this is my point, you clearly are on Philbins side, and that's cool, but you insinuate the release of Dansby is on Ireland when Ireland is the freakin GM who paid him one of the biggest contracts ever for an inside linebacker, wtf is goin on around here.
no arguing this point but my question is why? I know there is a night and day difference in his physical appearance, he has cleanly lost some weight and move like he did before we acquired him. so why is this? is it because of the coaching staff? the conditioning staff? or is it because of the player literally getting fat on his contract? I would think he would have been excited to play in Coyles system.
Here's what I know about Dansby, for the majority if his career he did not feel the need to train during the offseason, only recently about 2 years ago did he start talking about how he was starting to learn to take care of high body during the offseason..I know that he was in better condition going into his final year with us, then he tore his tricep, I also feel strongly that Philbin and Dansby didn't see eye to eye, quite frankly I don't think Dansby respected the new coach and his methods, jmo, but that's the feeling I got.
then if this is true neither side respected each other and releasing him would be beneficial for both sides. he surely would not have played inspired if his feelings toward the coaching staff are as you suggest they might be.
Then that's on the head coach for not connecting with Dansby in a way where he did respect him, and on the coach for letting go of a player that is in the running for defensive player of the year.. Marshall is in the probowl, Philbin wanted him off the team.. Vontae is a top 5 corner according to PFF, Philbin wanted him off. Reggie bush is better than Lamar..and a class person...Philbin wanted him off.. I'm just saying..those players being off our team should not be an indictment on the GM, he brought them here, they were good players here, the job of a coach is to win the key players over.. Shouldn't those players performance this year tie into the evaluation of Ireland to some degree.. Shouldn't the criticism of the coach tie into those players performance.. Trying to be fair here..
I am the biggest critic of Ireland and don't mind it if he's gone but ^^^^ is true. Ireland's grade here wouldn't be so bad IMO if those players were still here ... Getting rid of Marshall ... I mean, maybe he wore his welcome here although this was a new coaching staff so not sure how he wore it out. One argument I heard I thought was silly was, we had to get rid of Marshall because he might be a bad influence on our QB. Really? If Marshall were to affect my QB than I want a new QB. How about we'll see if our QB put on his big boy pants. Cutler has no problem with Marshall. Palmer never had a problem with Chad Johnson's antics. I always found that argument weak. And who doesn't think Tannehill wouldn't appreciate a guaranteed 100 catch guy here?
weak sauce..you have stated on many occasions it is the job of the GM to work closely with his head coach, if after a year of coaching these players, which he did, Philbin says he'd like to go in a different direction, you think it would be wise for any GM to override those coaching decisions.? Where is the line..?, maybe Karlos Dansby having a DPOY type season , Marshall putting up over a 100 rec and double digit tds, Reggie bush with a 1700 yard total season, Vontae bouncing back, Jake not wanting to be here, has caused some of the tension in the room that you have said there is.
Joe Philbin also wanted Richie Incognito gone and didn't want to be stuck with Jonathan Martin at left tackle. Did Jeff Ireland work with him on those decisions?
We need to look no further then the Buffalo Game........everything you need to know is right there. This team is 11-5 with different coaching
That is a fair assessment. All I have wanted is to try and be objective as possible. Why I tend to defend Ireland is because we really don't know for sure what the deal is. Maybe it's Philbin guiding Ireland instead of the other way around. This is my point. No one really knows. Everyone has blame here. Some of it is coaching. Some of it is players not being good enough. Some of it is players not full-filling potential. Some of it is scheme and not being able to adjust. What we need do with our talent to give them the opportunity to be as successful as possible. That clearly is not being done during the game. It is as if we have our plan and we are not going to waiver or are prepared to waiver. Maybe this is another step in the process. Maybe it is for next year. Personally I believe the latter to be our biggest problem and was highlighted in the Buffalo game. Their were zero adjustments, no roll outs, no screens, nothing. We let go of our linebackers who were here and now they are playing much better then when they were here. That is scheme. These types of things make you pause, and some posters here ignore the obvious signs because they are so sidetracked with blaming Ireland that all sense seems to go out the window. Jeff Ireland is ultimately responsible for this team and almost everything that happens, I do not deny that. But, being fair in passing out blame is often forgotten on this board. I understand about semantics and Jeff Ireland is the GM so the buck stops with him, however, I pause because until Ross or Ireland tell us directly what their responsibilities are it is very difficult to know for sure. I believe that Ross has Ireland on a short leash and maybe, just maybe Philbin on a even shorter one, which could be effecting both of their abilities to do their jobs. I am not saying that is the case, I am saying it is a possibility. Personally, I feel it is clear what has happened this season. We have improved in some areas and regressed in others. Some area's known about and some not. I truely believe both Ireland and Coach thought they could get by this year with the line they had in place. No one saw the Incognito thing coming. I believe this to be Ireland and Philbin trying to work together. How is it that Dansby leaves and all of a sudden he is in the running for Defensive player of the year. Is coach trying to make adjustments and he just made a huge mistake, or is coach inflexible and not willing to taylor our schemes to the talent we have. Or was Ireland to stupid to recognize resigning him was important. Why did coach not jump up and down about Dansby needing to stay ? Either way the Miami Dolphins lost a pair of good linebacker's and we have regressed as a result and our defense now gives up 5 more points then last yr. That is significant.
Jeff Ireland will never tell you directly what his responsibilities are, because he thinks the fans are idiots and will always try to deflect the blame from himself. There is a reason he has been given the nick name "Teflon" Jeff. The guy makes poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision and constantly clouds the water on those decisions in an obvious attempt to keep as much blame away from him as possible. He's already thrown Bill Parcells adn Tony Sparano under the bus for his poor decisions, and he's convinced some of you through the media that Joe Philbin is more at fault than he is. This is not an 11-5 talent team. Anyone looking at the team objectively can see that.
1. The trade for Marshall was in the works before Philbin was hired. 2. Philbin was noncommittal when Ireland mentioned to him that Indy wanted to trade for Davis. He may have went along with it, after all we had the great Richard Marshall to replace him, but he sure was not pounding the table for the trade. 3. As for Bush, if you believe that was all Philbin's idea, I'd like to see your proof. As for winning key players over, he never had the chance with BMarshall, and Davis wasn't here long under Philbin. Dansby played better last year under Philbin than Ellerbe has this year, overall, and while injured. If he weren't won over, we've seen players shut it down before with biceps injuries, yet Dansby gutted it out all year. Bush played better last year than any of our RBs did this year, yet you want us to believe he didn't buy into Philbin's system? He also publicly stated after last season that he wanted to stay, yet no offer whatsoever came from Miami. Didn't sound like a player who wasn't won over.
Dude, I based the 11-5 on difference in points we are giving up from last year. 2 more wins and we are 11-5. It is definitely not crazy to think we could do it. There were some close games this year and a couple we should have won. Whatever Ireland's decisions have been he has surely convinced the right people that he was not the one responsible because he remains our GM. I don't see the evidence other then your generic statement that he has done such. I am not saying he hasn't done it, just saying I don't see the evidence and apparently the most important man who needs to see it, Stephen Ross hasn't either.
This is how you give Ireland the bone. If he would have over ruled coach he is a loser and this is why we are 8-8 If he works with Coach and gives what he wants we are screwed because every player must be better then the last. Doesn't work that way. if it did everyone would be a GM And Ireland is still a loser Ireland will never be up to par in your eyes
No. Philbin wanted him gone after the May 2012 golf course incident. This is not the type of character Joe Philbin wants on his team. Jeff Ireland overruled him, and the Dolphins covered the incident up and paid the lady that was groped to not talk.
If Ireland and Philbin really thought they could go with the o-line they had at the end of the preseason, they must either have been very stupid or have been smoking crack, because it didn't take a football professional to be able to tell that the OL couldn't get the job done. They have to share the responsibility for that monumental misjudgment. When you put all the pieces together, it isn't very hard to tell how we got to where we are. We tried to get proven NFL winners at head coach, struck out four times, and had to settle for Philbin, with no head coaching experience. He brought in Sherman, who Texas A-M had just canned. We had Marshall, Long, Davis, Bush, Bansby, and Barnett on the team, and they let them go. They drafted Martin in the second round. Their idea of a powerback is Thomas. The offensive play calling is atrocious. And they practice in a bubble.
That's correct. Ireland will never be up to par, and it amuses me that some on this board want to say that I am being too hard on Jeff and that I don't really know the inner workings of what is going on. The bottom line is this. He's been the GM of this team for 6 seasons, and this team has made the playoffs only once in that time span and have only one winning season. There have been two coaches during that time, yet the team is still mired in mediocrity. The common thread is Jeff Ireland. The other thing here is you have bought into the illusion of control that so many fans fall victim to when looking at head coaches. All good actions must be attributed to great leaders, right? Therefore, all bad actions are attributed to poor leadership. The fact of the matter is, coaching has very little control or effect on the actual outcome. The outcome is largely dictated by luck and skill. You don't coach luck, and you can't coach skill into a player.
You coach skill into players by coaching technique and execution. This coaching staff is still learning on the job when it comes to that, and they're not quick studies.
I understand those two decisions, but once again I'm trying to look at this objectively with as much info as possible.. Marshall..Dansby..Bush..Long..Davis... Those were Ireland guys..and from the looks of it, really good football players...I have no problem with a coach wanting to build a team his way, but were trying to evaluate the staff and the GM at the end of the year...the GMs responsibility is to add talent to the roster, a coaches job is to get the most out of those players and inspire those men to be their best.. There needs to be some context added when criticizing Ireland, you need not to forget he acquired those very talented successful NFL players.. He keeps those players and adds brent grimes, were 14 and 2... But, they had to go cause the coach didn't want them here.. Well, if we win 2maro, he'll get his third year to prove that those decisions were the right ones, but I think we also have to add in those players performance when evaluating Ireland's performance over the years. If the dolphins lose 2maro, then you better believe these players will come back into the fold when evaluating the head coach.
