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Greg Jennings vrs Mike Wallace..a year later.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, May 1, 2014.

  1. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I thought he got better towards the end of the year. There were more overthrows and fewer under throws which tells me he was learning. The last step is putting more arc on the ball so that Wallace can adjust. He's much better at throttling up to chase balls down than he is at throttling down for the under throw.
     
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  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly. Nobody complained about Marvin Harrison not fighting for the ball or jumping over DBs. Wallace is no Harrison (route running/hands) but his speed is unmatched and he's had good seasons. Wallace is what he is, really really fast. Maximize that or get off the pot. You'd think Lauren Tannehill was pregnant with the way Tannehill practices burping the baby
     
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  3. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how this same argument comes up at least once a month.

    Can't we just agree they both need to improve and leave it at that?

    This rehashing of the same argument with some people blaming Tannehill and others blaming Wallace is just as fruitless an argument as there ever was.
     
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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I noticed that as well going through the various videos. He's going from Hartline speed to Wallace. That's quite the adjustment.
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I blame both yet get questioned for not blaming Wallace solely. Look above. A poster thinks Tannehill can't even work on his issues until Wallace fixes his. The funny thing is, both players have stated publicly they need to work on the things I think they should. Tannehill, ball placement, Wallace, attacking the ball in the air. I'm just repeating what they've both said ...
     
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  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Effing beautiful to watch. He did the same thing to us in 2009, roasted Bell and Clemons. Unfortunately we didn't throw a single deep post to Wallace last year.
     
  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Lmao that last line was hilarious.
     
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Completely uncovered. Did Wallace even go in motion last year? Run anything other than a route from one spot?
     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you highly critical of Brandon Marshall while he was here?
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Besides incredible speed what else does he provide that a WR is supposed to provide?
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Lol. So wanting Wallace to fight for a ball or once and awhile run better routes is so ridiculous that it's like I'm asking for him to be perfect?????!!!!

    Timing requires trust. If your WR has tiny catch radius and won't fight for a ball, why the hell should a young qb chuck it 40+ Yards without hesitation? Why shouldn't $60 mil buy a little more effort?

    Ps which of the two was out there trying to work on this stuff this offseason?
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's basically a microcosm for the defense of Mike Wallace.

    Him drawing Haden was some sign of respect, but it's ultimately a respect that would have been paid to someone, and the benefit actually being provided was dubious at best. Hartline may have been shut down, but Wallace was for a fact shut down. Him drawing an elite coverage corner and doing nothing isn't impressive. You could just as easily relied on Hartline, Matthews, or Gibson to produce similarly in those circumstances.


    What you're doing is pretty well the exact opposite of measuring. You're making a statement based on pretty much nothing. Wallace was the second most helpful player on the team based on what, exactly?

    Maybe if you like defined "help" as a measure of your excitement in watching his highlight reels, and the "measurement" in question was of some biological marker for excitement such as a lack of blinking or something else less savory?


    No he didn't. Not in either context. You're taking Mike Wallace's nonsensical ramblings rather optimistically. A deep receiver who isn't thrown to or likely to be thrown to on a play is going to look open at times when he was not a viable receiver.

    No one in the NFL has 3-5 deep targets a game over the course of a year.

    Why didn't Wallace do anything with the Steelers in 2012?
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My criticism of Marshall pretty much centered around him being a crazy *******. That's not Wallace's problem.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why should Tannehill trust Wallace?
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I think we all agree the deep ball was not what we expected it to be. I think we can agree that Tannehill had some blame in it. However, it is important to think about how Wallace's lack of effort on balls probably played into that. Tannehill probably wasn't comfortable throwing it at Wallace, because he believed the ball had to be perfect for Wallace to catch it. That means, he wasn't simply throwing it out there...he was trying to guide it in there, 40 yards downfield. That is never going to work. Now, had Wallace fought for balls, just maybe Tannehill would have felt comfortable chucking it deep to him, knowing that if it wasn't perfect, Wallace would work to catch it, or break up interceptions...yet we all know that Wallace did absolutely nothing to protect Tannehill on the deep ball.
     
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  16. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Im not sure why you think Ryan is sitting in the pocket weighing his trust for Wallace as he decides whether to deliver a pass.
     
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  17. Your basically saying that Tannehill's struggles because he is trying too hard and thats Wallaces fault?
     
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  18. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I think he's pretty average at everything else. WADR you really have to watch the tape, not just Wallace, but how he's defended.
     
  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Why should he trust his OL to protect him. Or Pouncey to call the right protections. Or Miller to pick up the blitz. Or Sherman to call the right plays. I mean what exactly are you getting at?
     
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  20. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    He's bouncing from argument to argument trying to win one.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm saying that if he was going to struggle on deep balls, that his lack of trust in Wallace would exacerbate his difficulty in throwing to him. I've seen a number of people say "Just throw it and let Wallace run under it." It's not that simple, if Tannehill doesn't trust Wallace to run a good route, or fight for a less than perfect ball. I think that when he threw it at Wallace, he didn't just throw it, he tried to make it perfect...and you hear professionals all the time talk about QB's needing to just throw it, not place it. I think there is blame on both guys, and it's silly to only blame the QB, or only blame the WR.
     
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  22. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Its silly to blame either of them when there's no semblance of a run game and the pass pro is atrocious.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sure, those two factors also didn't help the situation. However, when there's a receiver open downfield, and passes consistently miss, I don't think it's fair to not lay some of the blame on the receiver and QB.
     
  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Its a low percentage play by definition. Hitting 1 outta 4 is pretty damn good. The problem is that we didn't attack down field often enough, which goes back to pass pro.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You honestly don't think consistently getting burned by a guy doesn't give Tannehill a fraction of a hesitation?
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He's defended that way because of his speed. His speed is all he brings to the table. Again, I'm not sure why I'm the bad guy here when all I'm asking for is the $60 mil guy to show a little sack and effort.

    Huh? I doubt he trusts his line, he was sacked 58 times last year. Because of their performance, he probably doesn't trust them. Because of Wallace's unwillingness to even extend his arms for a ball or go up in the air and catch one, probably causes a fraction of a second hesitation in Tannehill.

    Basically the argument breaks down like this.....sure Sherman sucked and called horrible plays at horrible times with no feel for the game, sure the oline sucked and gave Tannehill less than 2.5 seconds to throw, and sure Wallace doesn't fight for the ball, tracks the ball poorly in the air, won't lay out and has a tiny catch radius and runs poor routes in a timing based offense...but the long ball issues are mostly on Tannehill because his receiver has to drop down a step and a half to catch a ball thrown 40+ yards on the run in just his second year.

    Its an absurd argument. Wallace needs to get his *** out there and work with Tannehill and earn his $60 mil. But he wouldn't even do that.....yet everyone is treating him like the greatest receiver they've ever known.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    My argument is consistent and valid. I've beaten you numerous times.
     
  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Lol.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
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  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm not in the it's Tannehills fault camp. I think it's ridiculous to blame either if them. IMO both of them have the skill necessary to get the job done, it's all about setting the conditions, the OL and run game basically.

    If anything Wallace needs to work on his shorter routes, he's choppy with his footwork and slow out of his breaks. I hate the way he catches the ball with his pads or in a cradle instead of snatching it with his hands.

    RT needs to take more command at the LOS. Calling his own protections, adjusting the tempo when needed, getting in a guys face if need be. He also needs to use his feet more to extend plays and punish defenders who are undisciplined in their pas rush. The staff seemed to be more focused on getting him experience from in the pocket, which is fine, but in year three they should trust him to take those running lanes and improvise more often.

    I honestly don think either guy needs to improve anything relative to the deep passin game. As the fundamentals and balance of the offense improve, the deep stuff will take care of itself, IMO.
     
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  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Better we replace Hartline with Cooks then. If we cannot get him, then Dri Archer later. That way RT doesn't need to adjust. :)
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You like to bring up his contract so often as if the money was coming out of your pocket. I want 100% out of all players, regardless of salary.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I guess he should go ask Philbin to pull him because he cannot trust all of the other 10 players.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Philbin has said that Wallace's routes are fine. I guess he was lying.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That is pure unadulterated bull crap.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He's a legend in his own mind. So he has that going for him...which is nice. :lol:
     
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  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bullsh**! No way!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/20/mike-wallace-surprised-by-mike-shermans-praise/

    https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/403283294852493312

    https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/403282814101389313

    Gee, I wonder if Tannehill watched the tape and saw himself burping the baby. But Fin D says that's because he can't trust Wallace ;)

    https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/403283046243528704

    You don't say!
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was and still am, I think he's overrated, and imo doesn't scare safeties enough to wanna cheat in their responsibilities, which imo does not create space for others..I don't believe in that type of receivers, good for stats, not so much wins...hmm, what have Brandon Marshall led teams accomplished?

    Marshall and Wallace are two totally different receivers, if you wanna play with a guy who can establish position 15 yards and in at a caculated spot who then can fight for the ball and come down with it with minimal separation, then he's your man..

    I'll take the guy who beats his man cleanly thru strait talent (kinda of a big deal)and creates space for his teammates by putting fear in the safeties head, just gotta get that kinda receiver the ball in a fashion that takes advantage of his skillset..

    Brandon Marshall can't do what Wallace does, Wallace can't do what Marshall does..I'll take my chances with Wallace.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wallace is actually a very skilled basket catcher when running deep...what can Marshall do on the run deep?
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because he's a receiver that can easily get open deep, a qbs best friend, If you don't think Ryan cringed all year when watching the tape I would disagree.
     
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  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I Don't agree, the amount of time Wallace was open deep relative to accurate throws was poor, Ryan's tempo was slow and the play design was flawed at times.
     

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