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Dolphins Training Camp 2014

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that there were no indications that the coaches watched all this film. Before the FA period we heard from Philbin and from Coyle (maybe Sherman too, but I can't specifically recall him speaking on the subject) that they were very involved in the evaluation process and that they were reviewing film of all the FA prospects provided by the scouting staff. So I'm not filling in blanks, the coaches are. Wallace and the LBs were contacted and signed immediately upon the beginning of FA. I heard through outside sources that these LBs were the guys the coaches specifically wanted and then through media sources that the coaches wanted specifically wanted blitzing LBs. As both Wheeler and Ellerbe had reputations as blitzing types my outside sources and the media reports and the timing seem to fit. In the end it falls on the GM, but I can certainly see myself in that position giving the coaches what they want as part of trying to maintain a good working relationship. Now obviously Ireland could have said "no" and apparently did later on with Albert, but in retrospect not bowing to the coaches is probably what lead Philbin to turn on him. And BTW my point in not laying the blame totally on Ireland is not so much to absolve him. He's gone and I don't really think about him outside of all the posts that want to blame him for everything. My reason for bringing up the coach's involvement is to point out that the genesis of some of our current personnel problems are still with the team. That's my concern going forward. The GM and coaches need to work together, but if the coaches are pushing hard for bad personnel choices it will leave the GM between a rock and a hard place. He may be left with the no-win choice of taking all the blame for the bad choice or being targeted by the staff for termination.
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I thought it was Davis complete inability to make a tackle combined with the fact that the back up cornerback needs to play special teams had more to do with him not being counted on more than his ability to cover.

    It was just one game, but IMO he looked a lot more physical against Atlanta.
     
  3. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Tackling problems at the corner can be just as costly as coverage problems. I short hitch can turn into a long gain. I wasn't being specific about coverage ability. It's just my sense/impression that the coaches don't really trust him -- I may not be right about it. I don't claim to really know what they are thinking.
     
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  4. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    In an Armando article?!

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure a shift in Dion Jordan's role is that common sense. He clearly shouldn't be an 100% rush player, but last year he was about 85% and had demanding, meaningful coverage roles. Getting him out there in the base defense means he'll be doing it more frequently, but I'm not sure it will be more meaningfully.
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    The issue is that Ireland wanted to stay with the 3-4 and Coyle/Philbin were not trying to hear it. For two years Coyle played 4-3 with personnel clearly better suited for the 3-4. Losing Soliai tips the scales back towards even but even in 2014 the mess at LB is still a bright neon sign that says our scheme and personnel still don't match up.

    We have Odrick coming off the bench while Wheeler starts. Jordan will probably remain a role player b/c he has no real position in a 4-3. Wake will occasionally be stuck playing the 6 tech instead of being on the edge, which our opponents will love. Misi is supposed to be QBing the defense as the Mike, an even bigger leap of faith than trying him at WLB last year, basically they're just trying something and hoping it works.

    Ireland aint the only one who could've done something differently, you keep going in on him about his authority but he cant force the staff to play the right defense.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's not just about whether you rush or drop into coverage. The position you play will dictate your spacing, alignment and responsibilities as well.

    For example Chris McCain was pretty much awful with his hand on the ground trying to rush the passer from a defensive end's normal alignment. He was pretty compelling doing the same chore (rushing the passer) with his hands off the ground with a linebacker's alignment, spacing and responsibilities.

    We caught a glimpse of that in this last game actually. McCain blitzed from an on-the-line spot at linebacker, abused the blocker set in front of him, and hit the quarterback as he threw the ball. Put his hand on the ground and make him a defensive end on that play and I doubt he's able to do that.
     
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  8. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he just thinks Ellerbe is the best of a bad group.....
     
  9. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    This why I think Jordan should be playing LB as well. He has good coverage skills, length, athleticism plus I think he rushes the passer better from a two pt stance with room then at DE.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He juked the runningback so bad it looked like he was unblocked.
     
  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We should also not forget the theory that the Dansby/Burnett for Ellerbe/Wheeler swap was also personality based.....
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, but you're going to have a wide degree of variability at the DE position in terms of spacing and alignment as well. They seem to have an idea that Jordan with added weight and experience can play the RDE role in a more frequent 6-technique type position than Olivier Vernon was able to play. That's a worthy experiment in camp and pre-season I think, and one game with sub-par results pass rushing(and solid run stopping) is enough to really scrap it.

    I think Coyle has shown enough in regards to the management of these kind of things that I'm confident that he'll go with what works best. At very least a reversion to the status quo of last season, with Wake frequenting a tighter technique and Vernon a wider technique would work well with Jordan.
     
  13. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Soliai at NT, Odrick, Starks, Shelby at DE. Wake, Vernon, Jordan at OLB. Ellerbe, Misi, Wheeler at ILB. Seems like a stronger lineup than what we have now, even if you swap Mitchell for Soliai.

    I'm not sure why Coyle continues to get a pass, I'm pretty sure it's undeserved, especially after the run D fell from top 10 every year to what, 25th?
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Speaking of the dismantling of that 2012 linebacker unit which actually played well.

    As has been said already, Kevin Burnett is floating around out there. He's familiar with this defense. You could sign him, move Koa Misi back to the outside in favor of Jordan Tripp, and basically you'd have the exact same linebacker setup as we did in 2012 except with Tripp in for Dansby.

    You can't cut Ellerbe or Wheeler because their salaries are guaranteed. They could be backups and guys that sub in for different packages.
     
  15. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    FYI PFF has the D ranked 8th, behind Seattle, KC, SF, Denver, Buffalo, Carolina and NE.

    They also say Grimes didnt allow a TD all season, they either missed the Cleveland game or they're not counting scores vs zone coverage cause BG clearly blew coverage on the Cameron TD.
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Grimes also badly misplayed a Jimmy Graham TD but it wasn't his coverage (he came over to help). Could have easily broken it up but missed on the punch. But again, not his primary coverage.
     
  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Thats the game I haven't been able to go back and watch, I turn it off right before the Hartline INT every time. That and the @ Buffalo game, the fan in me won't let me do it...
     
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  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Coyle gets too little respect, in my opinion. His defense has a lot of fronts and adjustments without being overly complex, and is a good synthesis of the quality coaches he has worked under. I don't think he's really particularly culpable for the problems that came from the linebacker swap last off-season, and I don't agree that Dion Jordan is being mis-used.
     
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  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    So would you say Coyle got the most out of Wheelerbee that he could, with scheme, etc?
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there's an argument that he didn't, but I wouldn't agree with the idea he really mismanaged the situation either. If it comes out he specifically asked for these players and then banged on the table for them again this year, I think it's a bit of a different deal.
     
  21. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    He's a tweener. Tweeners are for 3-4 schemes, not 4-3 schemes. Since we refuse to run a 3-4, just develop DJ into a LB. He clearly isn't getting the job done at DE. Kill the tweener and give him a role where he can stay on the field and use his talents. I guarantee it would help the run defense, which is a weak spot.
     
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  22. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    He's okay. Hasn't improved the defense from the Sparano/Nolan days, but we haven't gone backwards either. We were a top-10 scoring defense then and are in the same range now. Much of that consistency is due to the fact that we have one of the very best defensive players in the NFL.
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Who just so happened to have a walk-off Safety last year....who does that s***?!?!?

    Insane.
     
  24. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine told me he retired. Is he actively seeking a team? Maybe what I heard was hogwash.
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what I heard happened from outside sources before the season started. I doubt it will ever come out especially now that they flopped. But I had heard it before anybody was trying to lay or pass blame.
     
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  26. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    By "flopped" do you mean you think that both Ellerbe and Wheeler will be bad again this year? I'd like to think that moving back to SLB and being on the line of scrimmage more this year that Philip Wheeler might resurrect his 2012 season in Oakland. Ellerbe I have less hope for.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Maybe. I hadn't heard that.

    Then again, Brady Quinn was "retired" until the Dolphins phoned him up.
     
  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya sometimes it seems like "retired" really means "nobody's called yet and I don't want to look desperate."
     
  29. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think you can really strictly look at the statistics and go off of that.

    It's certainly possible, but even then I'm not sure what the culpability is when he's so far down the totem pole in terms of personnel decisions.
     
  30. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    A mans pride is a strong thing. Especially these alpha-male pro athletes.
     
  31. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Landry looking jacked son!

    [​IMG]
     
  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Careful, you're going to get DJ overstimulated.
     
  33. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Might need to send him to the doctor for the old erection lasting more than four hours thing.
     
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  34. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dunno, if that Brady Quinn picture I posted didn't get him going...

    Then again, maybe he's having a Randy Marsh "Ectoplasm" moment.
     
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  35. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    If you really want to kill him, just put Wake in one of the dresses that the NFL Network women wear that he talks about.
     
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  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    No, I meant last year. I agree that Misi to the middle, Wheeler to SLB and Ellerbe to WLB is a better fit for them. Will that translate to better production remains to be seen.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I see PFF rating us 10th on D last season, behind in order, Seahawks, Chiefs, Niners, Bills, Cards, Panthers, Broncos, Titans, Ravens.
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Jordan's strengths have always been more playing in space than just lining up with his hand on the ground and teeing off rushing the passer.
     
  39. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, this. That's why I think...er, hope is probably the more appropriate word, that if Dion Jordan can develop enough as a DE, he'll eventually overtake Olivier Vernon as a starter and you can play him in a role akin to Jason Taylor in 2005-06 in Nick Saban's defense. Meaning, I think he can play as a "DE" but he might have freedom to stand-up or play down, play on or off the ball, rush or drop into coverage while maintaining good position against the run.

    At the very least, Coyle has shown a propensity to let players do that. He did it with Olivier Vernon in 2012 and both Vernon and Jordan last year. The upside to it is, I think Olivier Vernon's most effective as a sub-package player where you can move him around, much like Jordan, and there' still plenty of those snaps to go around even if OV is not a "starter".
     
  40. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What's his flavor? Coscarelli, Theoharris, Qerim, or Zaloumis? For some reason I thought he liked Qerim?

    I'm going to need someone with better Photoshop Skills than I have to make this work.
     

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