Mike Carey Explanation on Watkins TD/Possible Touchback

He just said it was too close to review. Paraphrased. No joke.

More or less he said it was so close it couldn't be overturned and so it wasn't reviewed

 

Yeah, that was his opinion. Which was BS in my opinion. I'd have to see it again now that it's the day after, but yesterday, watching that play that ball looked free from his hands when it hit the pylon. Which I believe should have made it a fumble/touchback. It wasn't as close as Carey wanted to make it seem.

 

I don't know but to me it was a pretty clear touchdown. Just because the ball jiggled a little bit in his hands doesn't mean possession has been reset to zero and the next person to officially possess the ball will have to demonstrate a football move in order to demonstrate possession. The ball jiggled in his hands a little at about the two yard line, he quickly got control of it and stuck the football out and it crossed the plane before being knocked out of his hands. At that point, when it got knocked out of his hands, that was finally an official fumble. But the ball had already crossed the plane so it didn't matter.

The reviews are done at a central location where they have all the video angles available to them almost instantly. That play was indeed reviewed, centrally. They saw nothing during the review that indicated they needed to spend more time reviewing it. Nor did I, for that matter.

 

WHat I saw was this.

At the two yard line or so he is hit holding the ball in two hands. He loses possession completely and shifts it into one hand regaining possession. At this point it would have been a TD. However if you look closely as he tries to grip the ball with his one hand it slides. It begins sliding at about the half yard line and he never actually has it across the pylon.

 

That's similar to how i felt I saw it yesterday too. Of course, in the heat of the momment, maybe I was seeing things

 

I thought it was pretty clearly out when it hit the pylon.

 

What I dont get is how it would have ended up as a touchback?

 

I thought the pylon business was a big red herring. Everyone kept talking about it, and it didn't matter. The issue was whether the football crossed the plane while in Sammy Watkins' possession. It did. Then it came out.

It came out before it hit the pylon. It just doesn't matter because it had already crossed the plane.

 

All scoring plays are reviewed.

 

I thought he was losing possession at the one yard line. No reason to really be upset about it, it didn't lose the game for us. Horrible call IMO though

 

He definitely bobbled the ball and I don't believe he had it fully secured. However, when was the last time you saw a play like that overturned against the home team?

 

I too thought it was a TD but replay does not always prove to be what I or others think .For them not to review was a bit odd.

 

Not sure how that's clearly over the line. Might of been a TD. Might not have been. It's CLEARLY close enough to review. That was pathetic they didn't review it.

 

That one baffled me too. Seemed like the ref pointed where Harvin stepped out too....

 

Not in the way you'd think. There is simply someone watching the replay. They can see it once and just say "TD confirmed" and there will be no further review. When they say every score is reviewed it makes it sound as if it is done extensively. It isn't.

 

Well FWIW I said at the half yard line. I just said pylon because its just an object on the line.

 

People keep saying they didn't review it....that's not true. All Scoring and Turnovers are reviewed by the Central REPLAY system. It was reviewed, its only if that Central Location sees something that doesn't match the call on the field do they signal for the Head official to go "under the hood" and discuss what was called and what the film shows.

Going under the hood doesn't guarantee that it would be overturned.

 

Like I said, it doesn't actually mean it was reviewed. Someone in New York can see one angle of a play and say "TD Confirmed" and after that it can't be reviewed further. To me that is not "Reviewing every score". You're saying they did a great job reviewing the Harvin TD too?

Every play is no "reviewed" in the sense of what a fan would think "reviewed" means.

 

It does mean it was reviewed....the central office doesn't watch in detail every play, but they do watch in detail every TD and TO. It was reviewed, it just wasn't necessary in Central Office to get the Head Official to re-confirm the call on the field.


P.S. I do think if you go frame by frame it was not controlled and should have resulted in turnover as the ball was non-controlled and exited the endzone. But obviously the Central Office (and other fans like CK) didn't think the call was missed.

 

CK, yes it does, once the ball is possessed it determines control in the field of play until the moment it no longer is...if lost out of bounds you get the spot it was last possessed and or crossed the OB barrier as long as not forward of last possessed location. And if possessed prior to the goalline plane, but not controlled through the plane, it would have been ruled to have been lost through the endzone per the rule book, and turnover resulting in Dolphin football at the 20.

 

It may have been too close to over turn but from these images it looks like it should have been reviewed in detail before making that decision.

 

Fine. It was "reviewed" however it was not "thoroughly reviewed". It was not "Properly Reviewed"

They also confirmed Percy Harvin taking two steps in a row out of bounds. There is obviously a flaw in the system when a guy is allowed to see one angle and say "TD Confirmed" and it can't be reviewed after. I bring this up because I never knew that before the Seattle game. Their official explanation of that TD was:

"Someone in the central office ruled touchdown confirmed after seeing only one replay, and after that it is unreviewable"

 

Ok, I hear you.

I also think what they review is horrible, and the system is NOT running on peak performance. The SF vs CHI TD clearly showed the clock was at zero prior to the snap. that should have been part of the review too. Just like whether Percy Harvin stepped out of bounds, and where exactly control was lost on the BUF TD, and if it was completely controlled.

The down by contact on a whistled play still ticks me off. And the DAL game had a INT be whistled dead as incomplete and didn't allow for the return for TD.

The system that does review all TOs and TDs is flawed currently. Agree 100%.

I just want everyone to understand that on those plays, "under the hood" is not the review process, its the confirmation of what the call and what central review system sees. But it is reviewed.

 

Thing is, you can't definitively tell me what the ball was loose from the initial bobble until it hit the ground. Watkin's hand was blocking the best angle He may have recovered it until he broke the plane but there was no certain view of that. Under the rules, there was not sufficient evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. I don't have a problem with that. If it was a called a touch back, it would have stood for the same reason.

Personally, I think he fumbled and it should have been a touch back. the TD ruling is something that only the home team, or the Patriots, get. That place would be incredulous if it was called a touch back.

 

Feel 100% the same way.

 

Not true.

The NFL admits that Percy Harvin’s Touchown should have been reviewed in New York and then overturned.

The NFL issued a statement after the game, saying Harvin's score was "incorrectly confirmed."
''Had the game been stopped for a replay review," the statement read, "the touchdown would have been reversed because Harvin stepped out of bounds at the San Diego 21-yard line."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/14/percy-harvin-sammy-watkins-controversial-touchdowns

 

What's not true? the Central Replay System failed in its responsibility to review "all aspects" of the play. It was reviewed by the Central Replay system, they simply F'd up.

 

To me the article is saying that the NFL admitted they didn't review the TD instead they just confirmed it. The CRS may have been notified that a score happened, but they didn't review it and instead confirmed it.

Not true.

The NFL admits that Percy Harvin’s Touchown should have been reviewed in New York and then overturned.

The NFL issued a statement after the game, saying Harvin's score was "incorrectly confirmed."
''Had the game been stopped for a replay review," the statement read, "the touchdown would have been reversed because Harvin stepped out of bounds at the San Diego 21-yard line."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/14/percy-harvin-sammy-watkins-controversial-touchdowns

 

They simply checked possession and breaking the plane "and confirmed it", not the whole play where he stepped out of bounds. That what the league is saying. The CRS failed in its responsibility to confirm the entire play. Just like the CRS did in the SF vs CHI TD when the play clock ran out prior to the snap.

 

It looked like he threw the ball into the pylon. He did not seem to have control as the ball hit the pylon. The did not give this the proper look.

 

Every time I heard him comment on a play this weekend(and last) he just seemed like he didn't want to go against the refs at all.

 

This x1000.

 

I think you guys clearly don't understand the rule about 'definitive evidence to overturn a play'. There was NOT definitive evidence and if that play happened to us and it got overturned we'd be screaming like banshee's.

 

Speaking for myself, I'm pretty fair for both sides on bad calls. I'm the first to admit when the Dolphins commit a penalty some would call arguable. There was plenty definitive evidence IMHO.

 

Definitive evidence is one thing. Kicking the PAT immediately after the TD is another. They lined up seconds after the TD. How could this properly be reviewed in seconds?

Neither hand is touching the ball here,

 

The Saints game had definitive evidence. This is easily in that area that doesnt get overturned imo. If they are going to call fumble/touchback it has to be more clear in the replays itself. It's taking still photo's to even make it questionable now. I dont see a single crew in the league over turning it or even questioning it.