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Round two!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, May 1, 2015.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    We passed on Perryman to trade down with the Eagles to 52 and pick up two more 5th round picks (145 and 156). Perryman was taken at 48 by the Chargers. :( We are now the proud owners of picks 52, 114, 145, 149, 150, 156.
     
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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    And #52 is DT Jordan Philips.
     
  3. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    wooo
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Mayock had him ranked at 35 in his Top 100.

    NFL.com


    JORDAN PHILLIPS

    OKLAHOMA BIG 12


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]






    View Prospects By Name By Position By College By Grade
    COMBINE RESULTS

    GRADE

    5.9
    ?

    • 5.17 SEC
    • 28 REPS
    • 30.0 INCH
    • 105.0 INCH
    • 7.88 SEC
    • 4.68 SEC




    • 6'5"HEIGHT
    • 34 3/4"ARM LENGTH
    • 329LBS.WEIGHT
    • 9 3/8"HANDS
    OVERVIEW

    Has started just 17 games since arriving at Oklahoma in 2011. In 2014, selected second-team All-Big 12, starting in all 13 games. Had 7 tackles against Clemson in Russell Athletic Bowl. Started in four games in 2013 before having season-ending back surgery. Played in 11 games in 2012, but did not start at any point and finished with 12 tackles. Was a redshirt in 2011. Selected Under Armour All-American and was the nation's No. 1-rated overall prospect as a senior at Towanda High School (Kan.). Took snaps on both sides of the ball in high school. Recorded 17 receptions for 400 yards and four touchdowns while adding two rushing touchdowns during his time in high school.
    ANALYSIS

    STRENGTHS

    Massive frame with long arms. Athletic lower body for a man his size. Read-and-react two-gap nose with ability to eat space and free linebackers. Uses length effectively and was able to split double teams as season wore on. Swim move for quick wins and trips into backfield when Sooners let him penetrate. Athletic with nimble feet and pursuit speed of a man much lighter. Should be able to carry additional muscle and girth.WEAKNESSES

    Scouts consider him a flash player who can dominate a game but will disappear during stretches. Needs to play with better knee bend and lower pad level. Loses some leverage and becomes top-heavy wrestler at times. Not effective as pass rusher. Stalls out early and settles for looking to bat down passes. Doesn't crank up a consistent bull rush. Consistency of motor could be improved.DRAFT PROJECTION

    Round 1 or 2SOURCES TELL US

    "He has the body type and length to play in a 3-4 or 4-3 front, but there is no reason to move him from the nose. If he gets that motor going, he could be a dominant pro." -- AFC North scoutNFL COMPARISON

    Terrance KnightonBOTTOM LINE

    Nose tackle with desired height, weight and speed. Flashes talent necessary to project a ceiling as a dominant run stuffer best suited for a 3-4 defense. Phillips' ability to eat up blocks should help him earn a high grade, but it's his potential as a big athlete with above-average range for the position that could turn him into a Pro Bowl nose.

     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Boston Herald.com

    Ever see a 6-foot-5, 329-pound man do a back flip? Does that even compute, or sound humanly possible?
    Maybe someone should check Jordan Phillips’ DNA. Because the Oklahoma defensive tackle is that big, and can do a backward somersault from a standing position. In full pads, no less. Phillips just might be the largest acrobat on the planet.
    Now, does that stunt have anything to do with playing football? Nope, not on the surface anyway.
    But as we saw with now-former Patriots tackle Vince Wilfork, being an athletic big man can be pretty awesome in the NFL if you know how to apply those kind of physical gifts.
    Phillips was one of the top defensive tackles in the country this past season, starting all 13 games with 39 tackles (seven for loss) and two sacks. But will he be able to apply those assets at the next level? That’s the million dollar question, and one of the biggest reasons noted draft analyst Mike Mayock considers him a “boom or bust” proposition.
    That, and a cranky back which forced Phillips to miss most of the 2013 season.
    The Patriots, however, have taken chances on players with bad backs before (Rob Gronkowski), not to mention others with the boom-or-bust label given other injuries (Dominique Easley). They’ll do it if they feel the player has the potential to become a star, and if they feel the injury will hold up over time.
    Phillips is intriguing and just may push that envelope because he could be a dominant force in the middle of a defensive line, just as Wilfork was in his prime. With his rare physical traits, he could be unstoppable, especially if he sets his mind to it.
    But he could just as easily bomb given those medical issues, which may or may not pop up down the road. He started only 17 games in college thanks to having season-ending back surgery in 2013. Gronkowski’s back problem did flare up again while with the Patriots and did require another surgery, but he remains a force just the same.
    The other red flag with Phillips has to do with effort. On occasion, when he’s not drawing double teams, disrupting the pocket and being everything you’d want in a lineman up front, he has had a tendency to disappear on plays. That’s certainly not a Patriot-like trait.
    All that being said, the plusses are too hard to ignore. He’s at his finest performing the role Wilfork did so well for the Patriots during the past decade — eating up space and devouring multiple blockers.
    That ability allows the linebackers to make plays. But Phillips is so good, so strong, so athletic, he not only takes up space for others to do their jobs, but he makes plays as well.
    “His effort level was very up and down this season, but there are only so many guys his size who can move the way he does,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said on a conference call with reporters.
    It was interesting during Oklahoma’s Pro-Day, to see that Phillips took a tumble while back-pedaling through blocking pads. He clipped a pad and stumbled over with his feet flying up in the air. Not his finest moment, but he rallied and actually went on to turn in a good performance by all accounts.
    In fact, he got right up after that spill, and continued with that drill, finishing with a flurry, something that was likely noted by the scouts on hand.
    “It shows I’m not going to quit, even if I mess up,” Phillips later told Sooners Illustrated.
    Phillips is aware there are questions about his work ethic, but he believes he’s calmed fears in that regard.
    “I feel like at the combine and here (at Pro Day), I’ve proven I can work,” Phillips said.
    While the Patriots did spend a first-round pick on a defensive tackle last season in Easley, who battled knee issues and wound up on injured reserve, Phillips is a different breed. He can move around and play just about anywhere on the line, but mostly, he can do what Wilfork did, which is a huge need and hole to fill with this draft.
    Assuming that back holds up, Phillips could do it for many years to come.
     
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    [h=1]Jordan Phillips has his own 'Blind Side' story[/h]OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL — Here’s the story of how former Oklahoma Sooner defensive tackle Jordan Phillips went from a troubled teen-ager to a first-round hopeful in the NFL Draft Thursday night in Chicago, thanks to a classmate’s parents in Wichita, Kan.
     
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Full Article with MOAR gifs.

    Retired NFL defensive end Stephen White puts Oklahoma nose tackle Jordan Phillips under the microscope ahead of the draft.


    First and foremost, Jordan Phillips is a big ole boy. This cat measured out at 6'5 and 329 pounds at the Combine. Oh, and his arms are damn near 35 inches long. Needless to say, Phillips at least looks the part of an NFL nose tackle. The fact that he did 28 bench press reps of 225 pounds also confirms what the film tells me: Phillips is not only big as hell, but damn strong too. Additionally, his 5.17-second 40 time is outstanding for a man his size. And listen, his Combine numbers were cool and everything, but Phillips was also pretty damn productive on the field in the games that I watched.


    For the purposes of this breakdown I went over to Draft Breakdown to watch Phillips play against Tennessee, TCU, Texas Tech and Clemson. Those represented the third, fifth, 10th and 13th games of Oklahoma's season, respectively.




    So why don't I love this guy more as an NFL prospect?


    I can point to that TCU game for one thing. It just so happened that I watched the TCU game last. After watching Phillips dominate the centers from the other three teams, it was a little jarring to watch TCU's center get in his *** most of the game. Okay, maaaaayyyybe I'm overstating it a bit.


    It's not like the center was pancaking Phillips through the whole game or anything. Phillips still flashed a couple of times, but that center battled Phillips to at least a draw on damn near every play. Even if you didn't watch the film, you could tell something was up because Phillips wasn't nearly as productive against TCU as he was in the other three games. That actually made me go back and rewatch the other games again -- it got me to wondering if Phillips only looked so dominant because he was put in an advantageous position by virtue of Oklahoma's defensive scheme.


    Oklahoma lined up Phillips with a zero nose alignment on most plays, putting him head-up on the center in a 3-4 scheme. The Sooners also blitzed a lot, and even when they weren't blitzing, they still would have the B gaps covered most of the time. With him head-up on the center and the guards covered up, Phillips would have a relatively easy time dominating him up and making plays from tackle to tackle, if the opposing team had a weak center. That is because the center wouldn't be able to get much help from either guard, as they would have threats of their own in each B gap to worry about. It also allowed the Sooners to stunt Phillips left or right from time to time, which helped him to get penetration between a guard who initially had his eye on someone else to block and a center who came off the ball somewhat cautiously anticipating Phillips trying to jack them up. It was a genius move because I'm sure Oklahoma knew most centers couldn't handle Phillips one-on-one and most guards couldn't adjust quickly enough to stop his penetration when he stunted.
    [​IMG]The thing I kept wondering before I watched that TCU game, however, was what would happen if Phillips ran up on a guy he couldn't just manhandle and rag doll.


    I'm a Tennessee Vol For Life, and I will be the first to tell you right off the top that our offensive line sucked most of last year. So me seeing Phillips dominate our center and guards all game wasn't all that impressive to me. That's what I would expect a top defensive tackle to do. Had Phillips looked like that in every game I watched then I'd probably have a man crush on him by now, but seeing that TCU center put the clamps on him gave me second thoughts. After all, the TCU center didn't appear to be a world beater. He just came off the ball low, used his hands well and had quick feet.


    Kiiiiiiiinda like most NFL centers.


    Let me say this, I didn't watch the film to evaluate that center, so maybe he is a badass All-Conference/All-American type. No matter how he is regarded as a college football player, my thing is that if Phillips can't consistently beat that guy, why would I expect him to kick *** on a regular basis in the NFL?


    I haven't done a complete 180 on Phillips just because of one game, but I do have more concerns about him. I think Phillips can be a viable nose tackle in the NFL as a two-down player, but I just don't see him as a guy you should expect much from above and beyond that. While it's true that there were times when Phillips was impressive as a power rusher, he still needs to work on staying lower so he can escape those moves cleaner. Even if he does, I just don't think he will ever give a team enough as a pass rusher to be in there on money downs.
    Philosophically, I do not think there are ever many, if any, two-down nose tackles that are worthy of a first-round pick. It's a passing league, and I will always believe you can get decent run stoppers throughout the draft. There's no need to reach for a guy who can't also get after the passer.


    The question with Phillips is how long do you wait to pull the trigger?




    You can't coach 6'5, 330 pounds. As much as I may feel Jordan Phillips is a one-dimensional player, he plays that one dimension pretty damn well. He may not have made many plays outside of his little phone booth, but if the ball went in either A gap, Phillips was more than likely the person who ended up making the tackle. He also showed good footwork and technique with his hands in being able to get off blocks to make those plays. He was rarely blown off the ball. His motor ran hot and cold at times, but there were also plays where he shows up 20-30 yards down the field running after the ball. I don't think Phillips plays with enough knee bend at times, but the flip side is that he does do a decent job using his height to his advantage by getting his hands up in the opposing quarterback's passing lanes.




    I'd say for what Phillips brings to the table physically and technique-wise, he is a solid second-rounder.
    I can understand why teams and other evaluators may have Phillips rated much higher than that because of his rare combination of size and physical ability, but I just don't see a scenario where he becomes a good interior pass rusher. I imagine if there is a 3-4 team out there that believes it is a true nose tackle away from going to the Super Bowl, then maybe it could reach for Phillips. I just can't think of any teams that are in that position. If he does go in the first round, more power to him, but that won't change my projection.
    Jordan Phillips will be a good, not great, nose tackle no matter what defensive scheme he gets drafted into and he will be on the sideline on most obvious passing downs.




    It just comes down to how much value you put on that kind of thing.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well he is great against the run.. I guess our D-line is set for sure now, but I can't approve of this drafting strategy; I would've traded a 5th to move up a few spots and grab Kendricks. Just don't see how Phillips helps more than Kendricks given we already have Suh.
     
  9. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Awesome write-up!!!


    My first impression is that Phillips is a guy who has real potential to do well next to Suh and Wake if he gets stronger and doesn't slack off. Then again, you could probably say that about nearly any DT prospect, right?!

    Nonetheless, Phillips' best plays demonstrate a very nice burst and quickness that you can tell is something near special. Every now and then he blows right by the center and blows up the play, but like a lot of really big nose tackles, you certainly won't see it on every play. Phillips really seems to chose his spots well, but that also means he probably takes quite a few plays off and just plays the role of run stuffer.

    As a result, Phillips way too often looks like a very average, very unspectacular NT. The worry there is that I see a lot of what I would call a college-level Paul Soliai--not someone who's going to wreck the opponents game plan, but definitely someone who can help provide a stout run defense and really clog up the middle. Could he have as much impact as an NFL-level Paul Soliai? Possibly and that would be a great piece to have next to Suh. The plan may be to let Phillips do just that with Suh, Wake and Vernon being the key pressure guys.
     
  10. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    If he takes the double teams to allow Wake and Suh 1 on 1 vs their lineman, the pick was worth it.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Why would they double team him and not Suh (or Wake?). Suh will get double-teamed. Phillips isn't that good at rushing the passer, so while this pick totally solidifies our D-line, it's a bit of a luxury pick compared to getting a comparably good guard or MLB.

    Well, either way one thing I must say is this guy doesn't put up red flags like some picks by Ireland did. It's a good pick in that sense.. I just think there was better value by trading up to get Kendricks.
     
  12. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    O-line can't always dictate double teams. Guy is a big body, he's going to eat space and allow Suh some freedom.
     
  13. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Trent Dilfer is full of ****. You can see it in his face before he speaks.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Not sure where this magic button is that forces teams to trade down with us when we want to move up. It sounds pretty incredible though.

    DT was a need, like it or not. It is a bigger need than CB.

    We need production from a DT not named Suh for a little money and we just got that. Great dlines win championships. We now have a great dline.
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Even without a trade, getting Perryman I think was worth more than adding a DT. And if you're willing to part with a 5th to move up a few spots, it's more than likely you'll find a partner.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    MLBs don't win championships. Dlines and potent passing attacks do.

    And I'm gonna need to see some evidence that we could have moved up, let alone for a fifth.
     
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  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We had a good D-line after Suh already. If we didn't, that's another story. But we're severely deficient at guard and MLB. So the relative value is different.

    As far as evidence we could've moved up, it's 50/50 on where the bias should lie. One could equally ask for evidence it wasn't possible. We only needed to move up two spots. Consider this though: 3 spots above us Cleveland gave their pick to Houston, and Houston took an ILB. Houston moved up 8 spots, spending a 4th and a 6th and got a 7th in return. According to this: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php that's fair value. So, for us fair value is our 5th. Yeah, I think it's more likely than not a trade was possible, so I'd be shocked if we later find out we tried to trade our 5th to move up 3 spots but were rejected.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Guard can be filled with average talent. The average talent portion of the offseason is not over with the bottom half of the draft and the rest of FA still ahead. We are not severely deficient at MLB. Having room to upgrade does not equal "severely deficient".

    I'm sorry but that's absurd. Following your logic, the Eagles should have had to only pay a 5th to move up to our spot and you think it cost the same to move into an even earlier area of the round? Makes no sense.

    The other thing you're conveniently leaving out is that you must have a willing partner, so again, where is this magic button that forces other teams to trade with you?
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Oh we are severely deficient at MLB. Who do we have? Misi doesn't belong there. We really have no natural starter there.

    And yeah guard CAN be filled with lower picks, but we seem not to be that successful at it. In any case, I'm fine taking a guard later, just not DT over MLB in the 2nd given our needs.

    And I probably gave you about as good evidence as one could come up with that such a trade was possible without actually hearing it from the teams involved. I mean the value according to the draft chart for moving up 2-3 spots is a 5th rounder, and Cleveland accepted a trade with a team that took an ILB. You really can't ask for more given the info we have. I'd like to see any kind of comparable evidence from you that Cleveland wouldn't have accepted that trade.
     
  20. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    You want evidence? The Eagles traded down with the Dolphins using their 2 5th round picks. Besides they didn't need to trade down to get Denzel Perryman. They could have gotten him. Questionable pick to me. This guy is lazy and out of shape. Hope he gets it together. I think it could be a good pick if he gets in shape and lives up to his potential and the hype some people are giving him. But Perryman would of been nicer I think. We shall see. Maybe they can trade up since they have 4 yeah FOUR 5th round picks. The team still needs a G, MLB, and a CB.
     
  21. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    We aren't severely deficient at MLB? Who is our MLB? Misi? He played terrible, average at best last year. On top of that he is often injured. And free agency has little to no talent left this late in the year.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Misi was average at MLB. That does not equate with a severe deficiency. What are you talking about? This FO has only picked one guy to play guard and he's not only going to be a starter but many feel he's going to excel.

    You gave me nothing.

    In our trade with Philly it took more than a 5th and a swap. What more evidence do you need? Then you still need to show me where in the freaking rules it says a team MUST trade up with another, because that must be the premise of your point, else you think every team is willing to move down. Its just ridiculous.
     
  23. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Hopefully with all the 5th round picks the team has they can use them to trade up.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Look, if you think "severely deficient" equals average player, then what the hell would you call it when you have a Jonathan Martin level player at a position?
     
  25. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Misi was awful. 2nd half of the year Dolphins run D was horrible in large part due to him. And he is often injured. It will be easier with Suh in front of him but Misi sucks still.
     
  26. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    What I meant was terrible and at times average at best. And even if he was average why are you content with having an average player as the starting MLB? And injury prone at that.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Our run D was awful because of the dline, specifically in the middle....guess what we spent the most resources fixing.......
     
  28. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    And ummmmm Misi missing tackles.
     
  29. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Dolphins have a fetish for guys with "Jordan" in their name.

    edit: i didnt realize we had so many 5th round picks holy ****. Trade up..
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You can't fill every spot on your team with better than average players. Its never happened and you're being unrealistic.

    Besides, better DTs improve the MLB play. Even Zach Thomas will tell you that.

    The most important positions on the d are the dline and the safeties. Fortify those and you can get away with average talent every where else.
     
  31. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    But the point is they didn't have to settle for average. And not only is he average at best (I think he is terrible) but he is also injury prone. Before it is all said and done they need another MLB. Besides Misi is better on the outside. And I'm not asking for a pro bowler at every position like you seem to be claiming. Just a better MLB.
     
  32. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Suh, Phillips, and Mitchell are going to make life easier for the LBs and DBs immensely, as well as Wake, OV, McCain and Fede.

    Still, I'm concerned about FS. Eric Rowe would have been nice.
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well, we can use different words to describe it, but there's no question MLB was a much greater need than DT. That's enough for me to argue the point I argued.


    No actually YOU have given us nothing but pure speculation. I gave you a team that actually traded for fair draft value to a team that took the same position we would have wanted. You keep talking about Philly. I'm talking about Cleveland. You have any evidence Cleveland would not have made that trade? No.

    Oh, and exactly what would you consider evidence anyway other than hearing it directly from the teams involved? If nothing at all except that is "evidence", then you're the one with the absurd position.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol, ok man. All positions must be filled with above average starters.
     
  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah those resources went to Suh. Our run D was not projected to be awful after Suh. I think even you kept saying that.
     
  36. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    lol now you're resorting to stupid claims. No what I'm saying is the team needs a better MLB. And they could have gotten that with Perryman. Instead they got a lazy out of shape DT with character issues.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Well, considering the effing team grabbed a goddamned DT and not a LB I guess there is a questions which is more important.

    WTF? I'm using speculation? You clearly don't even understand what the word means. I'm saying you can't say what you said because you don't know. That means you are speculating. You. Not me. Jesus christ, every fricking year people cry like little babies that "we should have traded up/down" as if every team wants to trade and every team has the necessary ammo to trade. Its effing ignorant.

    Yes, that's the evidence I'm requiring, because without, you are SPECULATING.....
     
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  38. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Are you 10 years old?
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    They needed a DT more. DTs can improve MLB play. MLB play doesn't improve DT play. If you don't like the specific player that's fine, but the position is more important and we already have an average LB. Getting a great DT rotation improves many positions, MLB doesn't.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes, I'm 10 years old, because people speculate and pass it off as truth then accuse me of speculating because I call them on it.

    You know what 10 years old do? If they don't like something, they act like its the worst thing EVER.....you know, like you are acting about Misi.
     

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