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ESPN BLOG: Is Ryan Tannehill Better Than Andrew Luck?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shamegame13, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So is your argument that the oline is actually good, just Tannehill sucks? Say what you want about his presence, which I agree needs to improve, but his oline was allowing pressure in like 2.5 seconds.
     
  2. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Here is a stat for you: The Patriots with Brady at QB are 67-11 in games decided by 15 or more points, with Brady they never had a season where they lost more than 2 games by 15 or more points. In 2008, the year Matt Cassel played QB for them, they were 4-3 in that category.

    Its not a coincidence that in 14 seasons the one time they lost more than 2 games by 15+ came without Brady at QB. That is circumstantial evidence of an intangible, that Brady is elevating the play of the entire team.

    Similarly the Patriots o-line rankings in pass pro:
    2002- 7th
    2003- 13th
    2004- 5th
    2005- 6th
    2006- 8th
    2007- 4th
    2008- 26th
    2009- 2nd
    2010- 6th
    2011- 8th
    2012- 5th
    2013- 9th
    2014- 2nd

    So we have one little blip in 2008 where their line looks Miami Dolphins bad, the one year Brady didn't play, hmmmmmm....
     
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  3. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Yet Cassell was good and they went 11-5....
     
  4. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You mean you don't tell her she's a pretty little princess every second of the day and shield her from any kind criticism? lol jk
     
  5. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Got em, but here comes the spin... in 3....2.....1..
     
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  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    The perfect gif for that assessment, Roy did just grill em... lol
     
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  8. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It boggles my mind how some still refuse to accept the overall impact that a competent, elite level QB can have on a team and an offense.
     
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  9. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Your not kidding, I been trying to explain it but I think Roy just did it best for me... I dont know how they can even spin this one, I wish them luck...

    Andrew Lucks OL is made up of Anthony Castonzo and 4 Monopoly pieces but his ability to work a pocket and get passes off while getting hit or at the last millisecond disguised how bad they actually were, RT17 would of saw 45+ sacks behind that OL as well.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It also boggles the mind how people think oline talent doesn't actually matter.

    I mean if you think the QB raises an olines play so drastically, why not grab 5 guys off the street?
     
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  11. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Simple fellas, after we win the east this year and make a solid playoff run it will be all about Ryan and how he propelled us.

    I can basically guarantee this.
     
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  12. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Oh I already knew that though Fin-O, I remember last year we got eliminated before the Vikes game and they all kept saying how its a "team effort" on losses but when we scraped the Vikes, it was "RT17 won this game by himself" and all the sudden it wasnt a "team effort", it was just one guy, they have it both ways but its cool. The writing was/is on the wall already.
     
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  13. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm not denying the need to have a competent O-line. Doesn't change the fact that he's still got a lot of improving to do in how he handles/feels the rush and slides up/around the pocket.
     
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  14. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Yup. I mentioned this before about win/loss records. When we're losing - it's always a "team sport".
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Who the **** said he didn't? You'd think for a "professional" you'd be better at reading the arguments your railing against.
     
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  16. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    How very obtuse. When you were whining in another thread and giving me the "Tanny Hater" shpeel claiming to know more about what I mean than I do, I told you that it wasn't the case and that I was a "professional" about knowing what I think and mean when I type something.

    You're achieving some epic level Stan ish right now. Is taking things off-topic the norm for you? My lord man. LOL
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    WTF?

    You blathering on about people saying Tannehill doesn't need to improve in feeling the rush, WHEN NO ONE SAID THAT, but I'm the one going off topic??

    What world is this?
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, again, is it your contention that Tannehill sucks, and our oline is actually good?
     
  19. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    You solved it yourself, Its more like a "middle ground" thing, if RT17 works on his pocket presence, he very well could become a dangerous QB and the 4 man rushes wont be as problematic. If we have revolving door problems like Dallas Thomas at RT or Crybaby Martin, that could be a problem cuz they were just terrible but I think our OL should be at least improved in that regard.
     
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  20. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    This thread's bordering on Romper Room.
     
  21. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Of course a Jet fan would laugh there.... But,
    You can cut out the bickering and digging up of useless old arguments by using the ignore feature bud ! Some posters choose not to offer anything else.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You don't hear Seattle fans making excuses for Wilson and he's faced as much (if not more IIRC) pressure, faster, than Tannehill. Run game, defense yada yada yada.

    And a ~7.0 ypa since college, year after year. Hopefully he breaks that tendency soon.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he's improving, ryan is doing something that from my recollecton has never been done, but I dont believe he's as good as luck.
     
  24. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Dont agree, but glorious sig!
     
  25. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    having a good D is an advantage or not?
    having a good running game is and advantage, yes or not?
    playing in a weak division, is an advantage yes or not?
    at the same time, having the same coach&scheme in FNL as in College, is an advantage, yes or not?

    recognizing an advantage is the same as passing a definitive judgement on the player? I don't think so

    Saying tha Luck played in an ecuse of a division tells us the Luck sucks? that is bad? No, logically, it doesn't (luck can be all-time great even in a sh***y division, like Manning was, for example)
    Saying that Wilson has help from the team and that other part of the team (running game and defense) are the true strong elements of the seahakws tells us that Wilson is a fraud? No, logically, it 'doesn't (Wilson can be all time geat-HOF player even if he is not the best player in his team or the the most talented in the Offense - Montana Rice could be an example - and be a perfect efficiently QB in a winning team at the highest level, like Griese ecc.)


    the numbers (not just voluyme stats, but deep analytical stuff) tell us that these 2 players are not far away as many thought: isn't a very good thing, for us Dolphins fan (I guess we all are, right?), anyway we slice it? I don't get why the first reaction for many is just to say: BS!!! that's impossible, because I say so/PFF is garbage/volume stats are better/other dolfans are coddling(?!?!?!?!) Ryan

    I really hate the "new" NFL, where everything is the about the qb, always, always... I find it so boring, but maybe that's just me
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I hear them over valuing Wilson. I'll say it again: Tannehill is not able to escape pressure like Wilson...Wilson looks like Barry Sanders when he runs. If I had a QB who could run like Sanders I wouldn't worry about my oline either.

    I mean, it's like basic knowledge that to affect even the greats like Brady or Manning, you have to get pressure on them. Then we turn and criticize Tannehill for it.
     
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  27. Dansar

    Dansar Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember when RT was interviewed after the draft and he responded that he did not know who the teams were in the AFC South. While after that comment I had my doubts he has proven me wrong. That comment to me demonstrates two things to me, just how raw he really was and how intelligent and how hard he has worked in his first three years. I believe Lazor will get him to the top tier level but I suggest we should take a page from our quarterback " measure my success by wins". By that measure no doubt Luck is better at this stage, however there's plenty of debates to be had as they are both still young an at this stage I like what I see with RT.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah seattle has missed on the evaluation of wilson..sure..thats why they gave them the contract they did..his passing stats alone are real good, besides the fact that hes the best playmaking qb in the league..
     
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  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because they've been great. Tanny hasn't. This is really basic stuff here. To get to Joey Harrington you pressure him. So Lay off of him would ya?

    Over valuing Wilson? The 2nd highest qb rating in history behind Aaron Rodgers once he throws a few more passes (as long as he doesn't stink it up). That Wilson? Oh my, the depths one must reach

    EDIT: Rating, not ypa.
     
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  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Up until this year I'd have said Luck showed flashes but really hadn't separated from Tannehill. This year, without a doubt he played better and he didn't do so attempting short passes. His INT number is higher, but not terribly so at 2.6% (anything below 2% is excellent IMO, 2-3% acceptable, above 3% is bad. Peyton Manning has a career 2.6% average, Brady 2.0, Rodgers 1.6%.) Luck took a lot more risk, and while he did throw 4 more INTs (both qbs have essentially the same amount of attempts at ~600) but 13 more TDs, at 6.5% vs. 4.6%. His completion % is lower, 61.7% vs 66.4% yet his ypa is .8 yards higher. That is the chunk yardage we so desperately want and need.

    Hopefully we get there this year. 4,500 yards and 35 TDs would be nice (I kept Tanny over Matt Stafford in a league so Stafford better not get to his 2011 form!)
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That's fine. Maybe we'll get to see what he's like without a top 3 defense, and a lesser supporting cast soon.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, you missed the point. Great quarterbacks are affected by pressure. Unless you're Shouright and you believe pressure doesn't affect QBs, if you can generate great pressure with only your front four, while dropping 7 into coverage, you have a significant advantage. It's very difficult for any QB to push the ball downfield when he has little time, and it's difficult to find open receivers with 7 guys in coverage.

    That's the point that apparently you missed, instead focusing on an example that I used.
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    If Tanne was as good as some of you think, this thread wouldn't exist.
     
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  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You don't visit this place much, do you?
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    O rly?
     
  36. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Love this thread
    [​IMG]
     
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  37. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    :cry:
     
  38. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Once again, what are you talkin about? This is a thread about 2 QBs... bruh.
     
  39. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Luck played against inferior competition last year. Tannehill faced the AFCE 6 times, Detroit, GB, Denver, KC, Baltimore. 11 good defenses in 16 games. Luck faced Houston twice, NE, Denver, 4 good defenses in 16 games. Gotta include that in any objective discussion about their numbers.
     
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  40. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Of course it would. People argued that Marino wasn't that good b/c he didn't win a SB. When it comes to QBs a huge percentage of people can analyze beyond the won/loss column for a team. They see wins and in their mind the QB must be better. It's simplistic and stupid and I find the argument unconvincing, but it is the level of thinking that's out there. Then even when you win some will argue that Brady and Montana aren't good, it's all the system. So arguments exist regardless.
     
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