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Advanced Stats Poo-Pooing on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    No, just giving credit where it's due. To the WRs and Miller. Tannehill didn't have a perfect QBR because he was masterful.


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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It seems as though the narrative on this board when it comes to Ryan is he cannot be evaluated in isolation...got news for you, thats how every evaluation is done when it comes down to it..
     
  3. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I have. The receivers and Miller played great. So did Ryan Tannehill.
     
  4. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    its funny but ive been pointing out since last year that we need a minimum of 3/5ths of the olinemen to be at least average for this offense to function. in other words we need pouncey, james and albert to play. albert goes down in week 2 and our offense tanks for the next three weeks. albert comes back and our offense hums. james goes down against new england early and our offense tanks again. coincidence? only if you're blind. this is cause and effect. its not going to get better folks and its not ryan's fault, its not miller's fault. its tannenbaum's fault for not addressing it in the offseason. and if its not addressed this coming offseason, tannenbaum should be fired
     
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  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's right. Every "QB stat" is a team stat too.
     
  6. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yes but that's not how you originally presented the argument. Of course he played a great game. It plays into my argument. He is extremely dependent on the rest of the team, especially the running game. He hardly elevated the play of the team. If anything the WRs and RBs made huge plays. He only had 282 yards. How many big plays did he make? You're gonna tell me he deserves a lot of responsibility for his perfect QBR?


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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    were gonna build that oline this offseason so in that pivitol year next year, everyone can evaluate him.

    In the mean time, he has an important game on the road next week..lets see if he can realize he might have to play at different game with his right tackle out...is that to much to ask or do we just accept that our oline has taken a hit, so a losing season and poor qb performance is accepted?
     
  8. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    its a lot easier said than done, if we had competent back ups and depth i could understand but jason fox isnt exactly a competent backup.
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    he did the same in several games last year. granted they werent records but he had great games against the raiders, chargers, bills, broncos, vikings, bears
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Lemme tell you a story about a perennial 11 win team, who tanked one season, and magically went back to 11 wins the next year.
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    we accept that our oline sucks and unless the coaches can scheme or coachn up fox or his replacement we are going to suck until december
     
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  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because of Manning and Luck. What's your explanation?


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  13. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    so the fact that the texans, titans and jaguars all sucked during that period had nothing to do with it? what's luck's record against those teams and his record against the rest of the league again?
     
  14. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, our running game, although used less often than I would've liked, was good. Miller had his best season and Moreno had that one amazing game before he went down. So Tannehill had his best season yet.


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  15. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    The Texans didn't always suck before Schaub had that terrible season. Plus they were still terrible without them. If that team was so good, surely they could've willed themselves to two wins. Surely their QB wasn't throwing pick sixes every game.


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  16. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm surprised all the hate the OP got in this thread. I thought he kind of proved what most probably came away thinking which was that the QB was virtually irrelevant against the Texans who didn't tackle anyone it seemed. I thought it was a classic example of the team winning despite the QB not having to do very much in terms of making plays. I think the Texans week was a nice one in which nothing good or bad really had to be said about the QB. He did his job and the success kind of magically happened without a lot of big-time throws.

    I don't really think it's a notch on Tannehill's record when a screen pass is going for a 50-yd TD or when a quick 9-yd slant to Matthews goes for a 50-yd TD or when a quick 13-yd out to Landry goes for a 50-yd TD.

    I think if you're going to say Tannehill is a "franchise QB" because of the Texans game it's stupid. I'd point to the Jacksonville game as being a much better performance in terms of real QB'ing. Matt Moore could've had the same game against the Texans for gosh sakes where as I thought Tannehill basically carried the team against Jacksonville. He was basically the lone bright spot on that day.



    I don't think Tannehill's a bad QB but the way people seem to attack him seems unfair but the same can be said about his defends. The way Miami beat Houston had almost nothing to do with Tannehill, at least not in my view.
     
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  17. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    luck's biggest flaw right now is his wtf interceptions. he throws way more wtf ints than tannehill. tannehill's ints tend to be miscommunication passes, anticipation passes that dont work out. luck's are more like brett favre's used to be. i love my arm too much
     
  18. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I can't say I've been watching Luck much this year. All I know is the guy has proven he's a stud. He inherited a team with the worst record in the league and last year he led them to the AFC Championship game off of his league leading 40 passing TDs.

    The team picked up right where it left off with a veteran Manning as a freaking ROOKIE Luck. If anything his supporting cast has gotten worse. What's more plausible? The team that had the worst record is showing their true colors again or Luck is regressing THIS much? Probably a bit of both but it's gotta be mostly the former.


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  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That "worst record" was a farce. That's the point.

    And, if you consider Luck to be a surefire HoFer, and you're arguing that his crappy team is hindering him, how can you not see that with Tannehill?

    The hypocrisy in regards to Tannehill is astounding.
     
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  20. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    it really is lol
     
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  21. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Let's see. Luck inherited the team with the worst record and made it to the AFC Championship off 40 passing TDs. Tannehill inherited a mediocre team that is still mediocre.


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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    really..jawuan James is the X factor eh? Ughh..so we're not good enough to overcome jawuan James, if we have the qb who is as good as some are saying he is then this should be something he can overcome...this is his 4th year..stop baby'ing him
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yep, all Luck. That "worst record" was a farce. The team tanked.

    Guess Luck forgot how to be elite this year.

    Also, another example of the argument that wins are the QBs doing.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    DJ, mock it all you want, but the proof is there. Our backups are not capable of coming in and being successful. We saw it last year when Albert was hurt. We saw it this season when Albert was hurt. We saw it last game when James went out.
     
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  25. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Tanking is a fallacy. Pro players don't put up bad game tape and justify it by saying the coach told them to tank.

    That only happens in basketball towards the end of the season when the season is clearly lost. And not how you think. Coaches throw out bad lineups on purpose.

    You can't make that case with the Colts.


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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bro there's always gonna be injuries, what are u waiting for?, the perfect storm of compliments?..... No, he needs to do more period
     
  27. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    You really should research the meaning of a phrase and how to apply it if you are going to attempt an insult. Typical.
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Ok. And the magical QB who is solely responsible for 10 wins is also a myth. That Colts team was not 2-12 bad, especially playing in the conference they play in. So, deny the tanking all you want, but the record disparity that season was not simply due to the QB.
     
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  29. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Hey res,

    You know what I have noticed about these guys? The early years it was about his QB rating, but then that went up. Then it was about INTs, then those went down. Last year it was YPA, then that went up. So now it's wins. It's all they have left to desperately cling to.
     
  30. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm the delusional one. You believe a HC and GM conspired to "suck for Luck" and were rewarded by being fired at the end of the season. And the players put up bad game tape even though it reflects poorly on their resumès.

    You just can't believe some QBs are so good they can single handedly make a team lethal. It's not like Manning is a machine that churned out TDs. Luck either.

    Manning left to the Broncos and put up 50+ TDs and 5k+ yards. What numbers did Tebow and the other QBs there put up? That team had to be stacked, right?

    Luck put up 40 passing TDs and 4700 passing yards, leading them to the AFC Championship Game. What did the previous QB do?

    Conspiracy to tank, right? Right...


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  31. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    What's the correlation with the running game? Do you see any or are you going to ignore that? Is Tanny doing better this season?


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  32. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The players didn't tank. But the coaches and front office damn well tanked to get Luck. They put the players in a position to LOSE.
     
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  33. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Really? Where'd that get the GM and HC? They were FIRED. Why would they?


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  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You know.. that's exactly what I thought during that season. The only problem I have had with that theory is that they replaced the coach and the GM after that season. That suggests that the coach and GM were not assured of their job during the "Suck for Luck" season.
     
  35. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. This wasn't Spoelstra last season putting out bad lineups to get a better position in the draft after they were eliminated from the playoffs. There were no assurances.


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  36. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Live in the now son. What is Luck doing this year?

    I'll hang up and listen!
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    isolate the position..
     
  38. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Okay.

    Luck has 500 less passing yards, 2 TDs less than Tannehill and the same amount of INTs this season in 2 less games despite his struggles. Not far off.

    How many of Tannehill's passing TDs those two games were really earned by him? How many of those yards were really earned by him and not YAC? How on track was he before his coach was fired like Luck's will almost certainly be?

    Even though Tannehill is slightly ahead now, I'm predicting right now that Luck will end up having a better season. Again. Like every other season.

    What was Luck's team's record before he got there? 2-14. Since he arrived?

    What was Tannehill's team's record before he got there? How about since he was drafted?

    Exactly.


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  39. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Interesting considering your time on the forum. What guys are you referring to in the EARLY years?
     
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  40. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Still desperately clinging to record lol.

    It's all you guys have.
     

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