Looking into the future on defense...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

    18,065
    3,629
    113
    Jun 12, 2009
    Arizona
    Since Cam Wake is gone for the season, should we in the offseason draft a defensive end? I mean, not to replace next season but to groom to eventually replace him. I'm just curious on what y'all was thinking.
     
  2. Miami_Dolfan

    Miami_Dolfan Member

    55
    13
    8
    Dec 27, 2009
    I would say a LB
     
  3. Rex Deus

    Rex Deus Guest

    We're going to have quite a few needs on both sides of the ball next off-season, and I agree that a young DE will certainly be on that list....along with an LB (or two), CB, OG, OT, etc, etc!
     
    dolphin25 and Agua like this.
  4. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,476
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    Maybe Campbell can become the head coach and put together a nice staff to teach players and make them better. I hope he can talk some sense into the previous 3rd pick in the draft and get him to come in and play an important role on D.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  5. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'd say Miami need to draft/sign at least 2 defensive ends this offseason. Vernon and Shelby are both FAs and I'd guess both probably walk. OV has been bad and is asking for a LOT of money and you can find another Derrick Shelby (may already have one in Fede) easier than you are going to find another Cameron Wake. But, I think Miami ought to draft one in the first two rounds at minimum. Names I'm watching: Shaq Lawson, Emmanual Ogbah, Shilique Calhoun, Shawn Oakman, Jonathan Bullard, the Koufasi kid (spelling?) from BYU. Todd has some great posts in the Draft Forum on this as well in the 2016 Prospects thread.

    Edit - I purposely left Bosa off the list. He'll be off the board before Miami picks.
     
  6. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

    365
    137
    0
    Mar 13, 2015
    The whole season rests in Derrick Shelby's hands now. I for one am a huge fan of his, but I've also said many times in the past he's a player with a relatively low ceiling due to lack of speed. I sure hope I'm wrong about that. He's a very high effort player with heavy hands just like OV, Olivier just is a quicker twitched athlete. And with OV and Shelby's contract expiring at the end of the season, we really need them to play well these last 9 games and hopefully resign both of them going into 2016. If they don't perform well, our entire defense is going to need major work this off-season and that's really going to set us back long term. The play of our 3 young defensive ends is going to be absolutely critical to the 2015 fins and beyond, I have faith they can get the job done and earn their $$. Chris McCain could definitely be an X factor as well, but I'm not as optimistic about him or Fede for that matter until they show some pass rush ability in regular season games.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    114,328
    72,088
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    take your biggest needs, find the best prospect at those needs, and whoever is available take the best player.

    In the first round I would say top priority on defense is Mike...
     
    dolphin25, Brasfin and DolphinGreg like this.
  8. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    We have three excellent pieces on defense. One at each level. Ndamukong Suh. Jelani Jenkins. Reshad Jones. Those are great players to build around. Then you add in promising youngsters like Terrence Fede, Jordan Phillips and Bobby McCain, and we have something cooking.

    I think Wake will be back. I'd bet money on it. Grimes should be back too. I'm not sure what's going to happen with OV and Shelby though. I could see us re-signing one of them.

    So with the draft and FA, I'm looking for a big time middle linebacker first and foremost. Then add some help at corner. Add some legit depth too.
     
    77FinFan, gunn34 and thetylernator like this.
  9. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

    2,129
    909
    113
    Mar 29, 2008
    Orlando, FL
    This team needs CB and DE talent TODAY. Never mind next year. The answer is yes.
     
  10. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Thats where Id want to see us go Deej...we need a stud there.

    I think it also makes a big difference who is coaching next year...if we go 3/4...I dont think getting a pass rushing DE is as high a need anymore.
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  11. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    And it's a pretty bad year for MLBs. Who you taking? Reggie Ragland?
     
  12. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    If Miami shifts to a 3-4, who are your pass-rushing OLBs? Miami needs at least 2 pass-rushers this offseason. I'd say my dream scenario would be taking either Vernon Hargreaves or Mackensie Alexander in round 1 and finally solidifying the CB spot and then trying to land Emmanuel Ogbah or Jonathan Bullard in the second. I'd also see what I could do to get Bruce Irvin in free agency. You can play him at OLB or DE and despite not constantly getting sacks, he's a menace when rushing the passer.
     
  13. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Does anyone know where I can find a list of upcoming free agents?
     
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

    This is probably the best list. You can also filter it and search multiple years, not just 2016. Their salary cap lists are pretty handy as well.
     
    77FinFan, Onehondo and gunn34 like this.
  15. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Coming through as always. Thanks!
     
  16. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    Shelby needs to be resigned first and foremost, he won't break the bank unless he goes nuts, and his versatility is really good.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  17. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Man, there are a lot of really good players to be had in free agency at positions of need. It's going to be interesting.
     
  18. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

    7,503
    4,979
    113
    Mar 9, 2013
    Weston
    nothing is a bigger concern than our oline.
     
  19. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    We don't have the money, as of right now we are 30th in cap space for next year.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  20. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    There's some intriguing pass-rushing talent out there. Von Miller (likely doesn't get away from Denver), Aldon Smith, Bruce Irvin, Courtney Upshaw, Muhammad Wilkerson, and Jason Jones all intrigue me. Other defensive free agents I like include Nick Fairley, Eric Berry, Sean Weatherspoon (if healthy), Emmanuel Lamur, Nick Perry, Vincent Rey, and Danny Trevathan. I think Miami would do really well to land one name from the above.
     
  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Are you factoring in potential cuts though? Wake (injury), Jennings, Grimes (age), can all be let go. There's also the built-in restructure into Suh's contact that Barry Jackson reported on a month ago. Miami's got flexibility.
     
    Phins Up Wins Up and 77FinFan like this.
  22. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    I think a lot of money will open up though. Guys will come off the books and some contracts can be reworked to open up more space.
     
    dolphin25 and 77FinFan like this.
  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Obviously Von Miller and Mo Wilkerson were the two names that immediately jumped out to me. I highly doubt they become available though.

    This will sound crazy, but I would love to take a flyer on Morris Claiborne. He hasn't lived up to his draft status at all, but a change of scenery could do wonders. He's only 25. Why not?
     
  24. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Actually, I wonder if Wilkerson will be available. The Jets already have a ton of money tied up. They have Richardson, Harrison, and Williams still. I could see them letting him go.
     
  25. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    24,002
    46,898
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    He's certainly intriguing, but I feel like a 3-4 team will throw a lot of money at him. I think Miami needs a good base-end who can power rush. How different would Miami's defense look had they drafted Ziggy Ansah instead of Dion Jordan back in 2013? That's why I think Miami should focus on some of those pass-rushers in the draft; Shaq Lawson, Emmanuel Ogbah, Bullard and Oakman would be nice targets.

    I'm bullish on Bruce Irvin. You could move Misi back to MLB since there aren't a ton of options out there in free agency and I'm not too high on any of the guys in the Draft in 2016. You could play Irvin at SLB or play him as the "starter" in Cameron Wake's spot. He's also very athletic and can cover. He's what Dion Jordan could have been, but he can rush the passer better and he's got a spin move, speed and surprisingly good at bull-rushing despite being 255-260lbs.
     
  26. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,476
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    I think we should not count Dion Jordan out if Campbell remains the HC. He may know a way to get him to play. It's a nice dream.
     
    dolphin25 and SuhMe like this.
  27. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

    18,065
    3,629
    113
    Jun 12, 2009
    Arizona
    I'd like to see Morris Claiborne here in Miami. That would be a good move.
     
  28. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

    18,065
    3,629
    113
    Jun 12, 2009
    Arizona
    If he can get him to play without the issues of his past, I'd like to see what he can do. I don't want all that talent to go to waste.
     
  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Generally agree, but I wouldn't take a Mike in the first unless he's special talent like a Kuechly. If he's not that level then you can find similar talent later. That's why I was against draft Rolando McClain several years ago. He was the highest rated mike and we had the need, but I didn't see him as special. I would take a special player at any of DE, LB, S or CB.
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  30. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,215
    1,896
    113
    Mar 10, 2013
    Buckeye Land
    We really need to be a team that builds through the draft. I hope we can get a staff that is better at identifying and developing our talent.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  31. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

    2,435
    1,672
    113
    Apr 27, 2013
    Brazil
    If we let go of Grimes CB immediately becomes the first priority, IMO. Who do we have after Grimes? Taylor, the two McCains, not much, really. I say we keep Grimes and shore up the LB unit, grab a DE in FA and one in the draft, depending on who falls. Then focus on CB depth. Basically the priority is LB>DE>CB to me (if we keep Grimes).

    On offense, once again, we've got OL at the top of the list. I think besides the obvious guard problems we have, we gotta start looking at a LT to groom (and to possibly replace Fox as swing tackle). Albert is not getting any younger. Our offensive weapons are set, IMO, no need to target any skill position players on offense next offseason.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  32. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

    18,065
    3,629
    113
    Jun 12, 2009
    Arizona
    Good post
     
    rafael likes this.
  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,768
    56,495
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    The defensive scheme is going to play a huge role in this. Once you know that, you'll be able to formulate(or infer, in the case of fans) what kind of guys they'll target and their availability. What you want/need might not be readily available. I don't think there are a lot of 1:1 understudies/replacements for Wake this off-season. There seem to be very few "standard" 4-3 DE type guys this offseason- most guys are going to naturally line up closer or further from the ball.

    Especially draft-wise, this seems like it's going to be a feast-or-famine kinda draft depending on your defensive scheme and needs. Whoever picks up Ray Horton is going to feel like a kid in a candy-store IMO, there's a lot of ILB/OLB/DE candidates for that defense.
     
  34. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Well, Dion Jordan is still under contract, yes?

    I personally do not think LB is a need going forward. I feel one of these ST guys who have been drafted in the last couple of years steps up. Not a fan of Misi. I happen to like the way Sheppard plays, but he can continue to improve if he learns the system and takes better angles. Jenkins is a lock.

    On D, I think you really have to consider any number of DB positions. There is no way going forward that you can't. While you hope someone steps up, no one has really taken that spot. You have to develop someone under Grimes, and quick. Find a stud safety.

    Interior lineman on O is always a need, but I would but seriously look into drafting a LT high. Just my opinion. I think, unless Albert takes a pay cut, he should be gone. I like the guy, but he can't be trusted to stay on the field. He looks a lot less healthy than I thought he would look out there at this point. I would certainly consider another tight end late unless Stoneberger makes a splash (which he may).

    In no particular order: LT, G, CB, DB, TE
     
  35. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I do think some money will open up, but I also think it wouldn't be smart to spend it all again, FAs are all overpriced, building through the draft is how this team is going to move forward, and there won't be all that much opened up, lets say they clear 20 mil in space, around 8 mil or so for rookies, it would be nice to have 12-15 mil in rollover just in case, I don't think it's a good football plan to be slammed up against the cap every year imo.
     
  36. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

    1,471
    269
    0
    Nov 27, 2014
    Like hopefully Tannehills. He should be making $6 million a year tops. That contract is starting to look as bad as Alex Smiths.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  37. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

    1,471
    269
    0
    Nov 27, 2014
    We need a LB. These ST guys have not stepped up. Tripp and McCain haven't made the gains the team was counting on. People were talking about how one or both of them were going to make big strides this year so it was ok not getting a starting LB last offseason. Sheppard also leaves more to be desired.
     
  38. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    Cam Wake is done like dinner.

    We most likely will never see him in a dolphin uniform again. For him to play at that level again with that type of injury is highly unlikely - at least for a couple years. At his age and his cost:

    Trade him and move on.

    My favorite current player too.
     
  39. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,429
    37,653
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Tannehill has a team friendly contract.
     
  40. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    What about SUH - not even close to worth that kind of money............hmmm

    Gee if we took the surplus we could probably have one hell of an offensive line instead of a bunch of retreads from everyone's practice squad.
     

Share This Page