Remember that guy Charles Clay?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So much drama and handwringing about losing him to the Bills. He's got 51 catches for 528 yards and 3 TDs. Pretty pedestrian to me.

    Glad we let him walk. Would have made no sense to match Buffalo's insane contract offer of $20 million guaranteed!
     
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  2. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    He has been injured a good part of the year.

    Agree but the guy we replaced him with isn't doing much better. A waste of 10 million for both Cameron and Clay.
     
  3. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    The Bills do throw the ball like 20% less than us, so he'd be more around 60 catches, 650 yds, and 5 TDs here (if not better all around) if he were here.

    Also, he's outperforming Cameron I would say, and surely would be if here.

    Heck, he may be the biggest reason why our offense fell off so drastically between this year and last.

    Yea, he may not be killing it in Buffalo, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have kept him at that cost.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I just think its yet another pass catcher who does better with Tannehill than without him.
     
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  5. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Hartline, Bess, Wallace, Fasano, and now Clay.

    Don't let your Tannehate cloud the truth.
     
  7. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Saying Clay does better with Tannehill is premature and wrong as of right now.

    All those other guys were focal points in our offense and 5th stringers else where. Of course their going to do better.
     
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  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure you can frame it as dodging a bullet when you're looking at what Jordan Cameron has done for not that much less money.
     
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  9. JDelenne

    JDelenne Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just as a reminder JC has:
    30 Catches
    63 Targets
    346 Yards
    2 TD's

    I'll take Clay over that.
     
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  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And that doesn't make you question your Tannehate? Interesting.
     
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  11. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    No. Because I take all those things into account of what Tannehill is. I have realized in the past his weapons have been subpar. I have realized even this year his weapons and supporting cast is not great. Great players elevate other players and the team. I have stayed away from the Tannehill debate lately, because its pointless. People aren't changing their mind at this point. So I am not taking your bait into another Tannehill argument.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Lol, says the guy that posted a sarcastic smiley to my harmless post.
     
  13. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    1) Hartline has more receptions with the Browns through 14 games than he had in 16 games with Tannehill last year. This is a Browns team which has started three different QB's at one time or another during the season.

    2) Bess was at the end of his career when he was traded by the Dolphins. He was the 2nd option as a WR for the Dolphins and he became a 4th or 5th option for the Browns and was out of the league entirely after his one year in Cleveland.

    3) Wallace was the top WR on the Dolphins and the Dolphins were basically a passing team. With the Vikings he is their 3rd or 4th option at WR and they run the ball far more than the Dolphins. If he was their top WR and they threw the ball as often as the Dolphins, I have no doubt he would have similar stats to what he had in Miami.


    4) Fasano went to the Chiefs which were basically a run first team. He was required to be a blocking TE and not a receiving TE in their offensive system. Yet when he was thrown to, he had a much higher ratio of catches per ball thrown to him, then he did while playing with Tannehill. Obviously it would appear the Chiefs QB was a more accurate passer.


    5) The Dolphins FO opted to sign Cameron instead of Clay. It was thought that Cameron would be more productive than Clay in Miami's offense. Instead Clay has been more productive in Buffalo than Cameron has been with The Dolphins.

    I really don't see any solid evidence that any of these players benefitted from having Tannehill as their QB. What they benefitted the most from is they were in an offense which threw the ball far more times than the teams they ended up on after leaving the Dolphins.

    In the case of the WR's, they were all the first or second option on the Dolphins and went to teams with better WR's, where they became the 3rd or 4rd option on their new teams.
     
  14. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Jordan Cameron is a glorified slot reciever
     
  15. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I miss Clay.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's such circular logic...Tannehill is no good, because he doesn't elevate other players. But, the players on his offense are no better than 4th or 5th stringers on other teams. But Tannehill should have had better numbers, because he should have made crap into gold. But the crap is still crap on other teams. But it's Tannehill's fault that they were crap here. And it doesn't matter that Tannehill was drafted as a raw, project QB who was said to have a high ceiling.

    I mean, really, what? He managed to progress well through his first three seasons, and all these guys looked like serviceable to good receivers with Tannehill throwing them the ball. He took what someone said are 4th to 5th stringers, and they looked like at least good second or third options for other teams. That isn't elevating their play?
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I feel if Miami was more aggressive in signing Clay, they could have gotten him cheaper. I doubt he expected to make over $7 million a year. Cameron isn't as good as Clay in the passing game and is about 10 times worse than him when it comes to blocking of any kind. Miami would have been better this year with Clay.

    Bills still over paid him.
     
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  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Clay wasn't worth what Buffalo paid, but he's playing to around his career norms. It is what he is, I'm not sure if people were expecting him to really take his game to a new level up there.

    Cameron has both underachieved and been misused this year with us. If we cut him, and he goes to a better situation, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him play much better next year. Our offensive system is garbage, and teams have figured it out and shut it down starting with the first Jets game last season. We used Cameron properly for all of about six quarters into the season, and then gave up on him doing what he's good at.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I agree with this.

    Sometimes I like to imagine what it would be like to have Clay and Cameron. I think that would have helped this season a lot.

    Still the offensive system is super bad.
     
  20. miami365

    miami365 Member

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    We could have Gronkowski and Witten and still these moron coaches wouldnt know what to do with them.
     
  21. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He was oft injured in Miami, one factor in why we let him walk at that price tag. For Buffalo, he played in 13 of their 14 games thus far.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I don't think I was degrading Tannehill by my comments. I was merely pointing out that when these receivers were with the Dolphins, they were ulitized as the top WR's on the team and therefore they were the players who received the majority of the passes.

    I think Matthews proved this year that he was probably better than any of these WR's, but he just never got the chance to play much while Walkace and Hartline were on the team. Obviously this was a coaching error.

    The fact is that the first and second options on every passing team are going to get the majority of the passes thrown in their direction. That was the case with, Bess, Harline, and Wallace when they were with the Dolphins.

    Wallace had better numbers with the Steelers early in his career and he never was able to have the same success with Tannehill. He simply had a lot of catches because he got far more balls thrown to him than the other WR's.

    Hartline never should have been a #1 WR on an NFL team, but he was the best the Dolphins had on the roster for a couple of seasons. He played well for two seasons, but I think he would have had the same type of success those two years if he had been on any other NFL team where he was their primary WR.

    For a few seasons while he was with the Dolphins, Bess was one of the top slot receivers in the NFL, IMO. This included when Henne was the starting QB for the Dolphins.

    My view of Tannehill is that he plays as well as any QB in the league for a few series in most games. The Dolphins are a predominately pass oriented team, so he has more opportunity than many of the other QB's in the league to increase his passing stats. Therefore all these additional passes help the receivers to add to their stats.

    My problem with Tannehill is, he hasn't progressed at all this year. He still has zero pocket awareness and he hasn't developed the skill to avoid the pass rush in most instances. I don't see him as a great leader, which the elite QB's all seem to be. You never hear his teammates praise him as their QB.

    While I think he is an intelligent young man off the field. When it comes to the football smarts required of a QB in the NFL, I just don't see him as a smart QB in that way.

    To me he is a QB who will play well from time to time, but will never be better than mediocre over the course of an entire season. He might be able to take a really talented team to the playoffs, but I don't see him leading them past the first round of the playoffs.

    I think in a couple of years, the FO and the new head coach will opt to go in a different direction at the QB position and Tannehill will leave the Dolphins and spend the remainder of his years in the NFL as a backup QB. I think he has shown over the last four years that he just doesn't have what it takes to get beyond mediocrity.

    I welcome him to prove me wrong next season, because if he doesn't his days in Miami will be over after the 2016 season ends.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wallace had basically the same numbers in Pitt when they switched to a timing offense.

    As to the rest, I was only pointing out, they looked serviceable with Tannehill feeding them the ball, even though they're basically 4th or 5th best options on other teams. How much more should Tannehill be expected to elevate them?

    I think you're wrong on the mediocre thing. If anything, this year should prove how terrible the team actually is, and should make people consider how much the team could be holding a developing QB back.
     
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  24. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Unlike the so called Tannehill haters on here. I would love to see Tannehill elevate his game and prove he deserves to be the long term starter for this team. We have certainly been through enough QB changes since Marino retired.

    I am just not convinced he will ever be more than what he is at this time. Because of his contract, he will have at least one more season in Miami to show the next coaching staff they can count on him for the long term. If not, as I stated earlier, he will likely be on another team when the 2017 season rolls around.
     
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  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I said I'm not getting into the debate. Never said I wouldn't laugh at people's ridiculous comments.


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  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I see, in a public forum, you'd rather be a douche than have a discussion.

    Duly noted.
     
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  27. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Take it how you want it.


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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he misses you too
     
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  29. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Are you listening to what you just said? LOL.
     
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  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What is using Jordan Cameron properly?
     
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  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    neither TE is worth the money either team paid IMO. I said we wouldn't miss Clay and we didn't. the problem is I thought Cameron would have played better and he hasn't
     
  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Running routes down the middle of the field, or hook & out routes . Not the garbage tight to the Los that he seemed to run the majority of the season.
     
  33. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Jordan isn't a fit for this offense, that's for sure. Now if we got ourselves Hue Jackson, I could see him performing better than what he's done this year.

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  34. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Bro. He hasn't elevated Dallas Thomas's play.
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Truth is, Thomas only looks bad because Tannehill sucks so bad, and he makes Thomas look far worse than he is.
     
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  36. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would have loved to keep Clay but the Bills went after him and over paid, we were smart to bow out. Its not a decision I really spend a lot of time second guessing. We had to let him go.
     
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  37. He is todays verision of Gus Ferrotte

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  38. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Actually, Kirk Cousins is today's version of Gus Ferrotte :chuckle:
     
  39. i just meant that so far he has performed just good enough to flirt with the idea of him being a starter but really hasnt had any spectacular games. weather its him, his coaching, or his urrounding cast he just has been unable to break out of medocrity for any sustained amount of time.

    It will be a real conundrum if it happens late next season.

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  40. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Imagine if we had Evan Mathis, Pat Chung, or hell even Rob Ninkovich.

    Wait. We actually did cut those guys.
     

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