Hopefully we hurt Brady enough to effect today's outcome.

Yes, I clearly said all players lowly drafted suck or they cheat.

 

Get over the cheating already. Geez why cant people just recognize they have built something special. Their the best team consistently arguably in history.

If it floats people's boats to explain away their success, because NE may or may not have deflated a football or taped some signal calls, well then by all means keep explaining away. Most teams only use signals for a certain period anyway - so big deal

It sucks they are in our division and I get the reason why a lot of people here hate them. Pisses in your cheerios to know we have our work cut out for us. Makes the rebuilding process take even longer because we realize it is going to be a long road ahead even with Gace and Co.

The New England Patriots are again the best team in football, like it or not ring #5 is just around the corner. It is no mistake.

It was obvious they could have hammered the Chiefs even more then they did and let off the gas toward the end of the 3rd. This is another reason why they win like they do. Most teams would have soldered on and continued to put down the hammer. No what does Bellicheck do he lets up after he felt they had the game in the bag not to show anymore then he had to.

 

Tom Brady sucks? lol are you serious? Its official. You're the biggest troll on this site.

P.S. time to get rid of the Dan Campbell pic.

 

Doesn't mean a whole lot when you get swept by the Jets and Bills.

 

lol, reading ain't your thing.

 

Silliest thing I've read for a while.

31 teams out there, all knowing of Rumors of Patriots cheating, yet they still let the Patriots cheat to the extent they dominate the league for 15 years?

That's like blaming the gods for a bad crop this year.

 

Your hero worship is the silliest thing I've ever seen.

They've been caught more than once. Everyone in the league knows it. They've been accused numerous times. What exactly engenders such blind and frankly ignorant loyalty from you? Are you just that much of a sucker for w/l record?

Here's the thing, they could be busted 10 more times for cheating, you still wouldn't care and you'd still defend them.

 

LOL, Brady and Belichick actually suck, the only reason they win is cheating.

That's just precious.

 

Nah, they just went from no ones to greatest while getting caught for cheating multiple times, but its not related at all.

Makes perfect sense.

 

Lol

 

LOL!

It's common sense.

The Jets have cheated a LOT. Tell me, how 31 teams worth billions each, just lets the Patriots continue to cheat them while DOMINATING the league. "oh darn, the Patriots beat us again by cheating. We'll get them next year!"

 

Common sense? Funny.

The NFL is a different animal. You know that. It would do the league more harm to blow them up for cheating then it would for them to cover it up. We literally just saw that happen last year. Hell, you were leading the charge of defending the Pats on this site over DeflateGate.

Its bizarre you spend so much time defending and frankly, felating, an entity that cheats so much. Its like you're on their payroll or something. Seriously, nothing gets you riled up in the mains quite like someone calling the Pats cheaters and/or Thill a good QB.

 

It's funny to look at the ones who defend the Pats, and who thank the Pats defecting the Pats.

Often the same ones denigrating Tannehill all the time.

 

Because of Kraft and goodell. The stories have already come out that owners wanted more done against the pats but goodell wanted to sweep it under the rug

 

I noticed that too

 

I sure hope old school Peyton Manning makes one final appearance next week. He's a much more respectable QB than Tommy boy will ever will be to me.

 

This thread is all jealousy.

teams Cheat. They should. Let's not act like we never cut a corner.

See leaving the tarp rolled up.

 

If I remember the story correctly, the zonk found an opposing teams playbook before a game and with a smile on his face brought it to don shula. Shula told him to get rid of it. He didn't want to beat the opposition that way. If we were going to win we would do it fair and square. I would like to think we still embrace that mindset

 

I swear to god I am so goddamned sick and effing tired of people saying its jealousy because some of us want some effing ethics in the game.

Not everyone cheats. This is not ****ing pro wrestling.

If you're ok with this bull****, then the problem is you and everyone like you.

 

that they cheated is just a fact, they were found guilty 2 times I think (the tapes and the balls, if I am not mistaken); how much impact that has had on their winning is up to debate (I, for one, think it's most related to the new rules and the longevity that they offered to the QB position: when you have an HOF QB for almost 20 years, without any classic decline in his game, the kind once upon a time the multiple injuries forced on the player after the contuining beating, it is easier to keep a dynasty going for 15-18 years instead of 6-9 years like in the past).

But cheating must have some weight, otherwise you have to think they were the dumbest people in the world, taking such a dangeruos risk just for fun




ps by the way, I, for one, would feel embarassed if my teams was caught cheating multiple times.
I don't care if you win that way.
But maybe I am not a regular joe, I don't know: if the team we beat has some key player injured I take MUCH less satisfaction from the win, I always hope to beat someone with them at their best possible form.
So, you can understand that if we would win and then we discovered that we had some unfair advantage, that would be a serious serious problem with me, even if I am a Dolfan


sorry for my English

 

Exactly.

I've tried to make this point before....there's no reason to try all the cheating they've done if it didn't give them an advantage. They have in fact cheated. So we are left with..

The cheating helped them and BB isn't the genius people think he is.

OR

The cheating didn't them and BB is stupid enough to take those risks on something that didn't help him.

There's no real way out of that.

 

I said as much during the Pats game thread.Here was our chance to ruin their hometeam advantage thoughout the playoffs .Mission accomplished.

 

well, to be honest, for me it's no so black&white, I guess he could be a genius (meaning a freaking smart football mind, not an infallible one or something god-like, like sometimes he is described, even here!) and still trying to gain some unfair advantage: in some way, one could argue that the fact that he is a "genius" could also explaing why some advantage could make a world of difference in his hands.

I mean, you could be one of the best football mind of your generation, be better than the competition and still be an insecure baby that feels the need to cheat at every occasion


anyway, IMO, it's not so important how smart BB is, or how good as an NFL coach is (is it better than Lombardi or Walsh or Shula or Landry or Noll or...boh, some other guy from the future? how can you decide it objectively? it is just a matter of opinion and personal preferences, because everything - stats, sb won, winning percentages - is related to a context - level of competition, rules, players available, etc), for me the point is: he was cheating and that is a fact, something I don't excuse and that reduce any admiration I may have for BB as a coach (but I understand that this is not an opinion everyone share, here and outside: for somebody cheating is a way to try harder....but IMO is like saying that stealing is a way to try harder to became rich or that copyng during a class test is a way to try harder to be a better student... )

again, sorry for my messy English

 

It's always 2 absolutes with you, you think those are the only 2 possible solutions?, lol

How about this;

the taping isn't that much of an advantage, because you can still track signals without a video, if you can see it, it can be documented, and a lot of teams were doing it, because it's easier, not because you get something else, it's just easier.

maybe Brady alone is responsible for the deflating, so that wouldn't be the Pats cheating as much as just Brady, and can we quantify how much of an advantage deflating is? is it simply a mental advantage because Brady likes them deflated? because other QBs have come out and said they like them over inflated, and by the way, they had won a couple SBs prior to even being able to deflate balls, because that wasn't even possible until 2007.

So how much again did the cheating help? In other circumstances this would be considered gamesmanship, scuffing a baseball, spitballs and corking bats was a much more effective way of cheating, but was considered gamesmanship by many.

 

So I'm clear.....you're saying he may have risked all of that, because taping is...easier. And in some weird way, that doesn't make him an idiot? Interesting.

And Brady developed a complicated system, that was entirely against the rules, to circumvent the rules and risk potential problems (after having already seen the punishment for cheating) simply because he had a preference that gave him no advantage.....and that doesn't make him an idiot?

 

well, as I said before, it's not so important how much advantage he gained (if he is a genius coach, is likely that even a little edge could make an enormous difference), it ììis just that it was cheating when it happened, he (and the organization knew, because they were warned before) they shouldnt do it, they still did it... so it's not gameship, it is just something they did and other did not at that time and that gave them an advantage, little o big, how is the difference? they had an unfair advantage and considering that the sport is based on the premise that at least the rules are the same for the teams or players, for me that's enough to see BB&his success in a different light

I am not sure as FinD that is their success depends on cheating, but my point is that nobody really can exactly know how much help that edge gave them... you can think it was all cheating, you can think it has little impact, the truth is nobody can know exactly how much it helped them and that cast a certain light on their success

and again, I want to underline that this is something that BB caused to himself: he was warned by the league and he just didn't care and he was punished for violating the rules. So I think that having some doubts about him as a coach is quite normal, if not due.

 

FTR, I'm not saying the two things they got caught for are the reasons for their success.

I'm saying if they are willing to cheat in a way that provides such minimal returns (as the deflated balls and video taping), then they are cheating in other ways for bigger returns and we just don't know it yet.

 

well, about that... I can't really exlude it. I don't consider it too likely (there is so much turnover in the NFL, something would have been said or discovered, I guess, like with Mangini), maybe, but... considering their history, I don't think you can exclude the possibility that they are trying to cut other - more relevant - corners.

 

I have no doubt the Pats have been cheating for years in ways that they've not yet been caught - most likely through intercepting signals, eavesdropping - and continuous communication to Brady during the game.

 

Just so the theories remain realistic, the headsets are encrypted so it's nearly impossible to intercept (and understand) the signals there. The only thing you can do there is jam it (or cause headset malfunctions) so the signals don't get through. All the rest of the hand signals are equally visible to both teams, so the question is whether you know how to interpret them beforehand.

 

Exactly.

There are posters, reasonable reputable ones, who believe the Pats stole whole play books. All because ESPN reported it.

Do you know how devastating it would be for your playbook to fall in the hands of another team? Not by accident, but because the Pats stole it?

They believed that without even thinking about how ridiculous it is because it's the pats! That's bad Hollywood The Waterboy stuff.

I asked them to name the two teams that lost their whole playbook. Nobody responded.

Do I think the pats skirt the rules. Absolutely. Spygate is evidence of that

Do I think the Pats are running a clandestine covert operation to steal playbooks?

That's absurd.

 

People don't even realize spygste wasn't something the Pats were doing in secret. It was a widespread practice that the NFL didn't want to continue so they sent a memo for teams to stop it. Belichick thought he had a loophole and said screw it. He was wrong. he was punished severely for it. But you don't videotape in secret in front of hundreds of officials, referees, teams and 60,000 fans and tv cameras.

 

One more thing. People are shocked at what the film
Showed. Scoreboard and time, then the coaches. But you don't even realize that's what the rules require. The film
Regulations say you must film the scoreboard before each play. I'm not kidding.

What the patriots filmed was not against the rules. It's where they did it. They are not allowed to film on the sidelines or in the club boxes. The NFL doesn't want you to use the film in the same game. That's why Belichick thought he was fine as long as he did not use it during the same game.

His film was okay. But it needed to be done in a media room or somewhere else. No communications between the videographer and the team during filming

Bet you guys didn't know that. There was (is still?) no rule forbidding a team from videotaping signals. It's where you can tape it.

This is the handbook with two pages about how you can film and how you can exchange film between two teams.

Policy Manual for Member Clubs Volume II: Game Operations 2007 edition.

 

The cheating is an accumulative affect in that even little edges here and there add up. All this praise for the Patriots has to include their amazing ability to gain edges on so many aspects of the game. Air in the balls, stealing signals and plays, messing with technology and so on - probably more than we would even possibly imagine. I think they get into opposing head's teams all the time. I also think they are good at using bulletin board material.

All the small and big edges they are able to squeak out over the years results in an increase in number scores, number of wins, number of playoff appearances and Superbowl wins. It also has given their players massive amounts of confidence and it has kept Brady healthy at an ungodly level. Brady shows no sign of wear at all and best guess, he could go 10 more years. It has to catch up with him eventually but we were saying that 5 years ago. Unless he starts getting hit more often, this won't change.

i don't understand how other teams cannot figure this out. If the Patriots do something well, you would have thought that someone would have figured it out yet. unless they are changing the way they get this edge all the time.

 

I think it's a question of emphasis. Most coaches probably don't think they need to prioritize gaining tiny edges everywhere, if necessary that are borderline illegal or in some cases technically illegal. There's really nothing wrong with trying to gain an edge everywhere as long as that doesn't distract from more important issues. I guess Belichick is just good at that. Thing is, he's a good coach even without that as far as I can tell because the in-game adjustments are hard to fake.

 

I don't really disagree with anything your saying, I was just refuting Fin D's theory that they win because they cheat, but cheating goes on in every game, and some players learn how to hide it, but we do call that gamesmanship, but holding is cheating, I don't trust BB, but I wish he was our HC.

I wonder why more people aren't up in arms about steroid or HGH use, players go to great lengths to hide it, including using other compounds as masking agents, and I'd bet a barrel of gold against a bucket of pig****, lol, that HGH is a much more effective way of cheating than under inflated balls, but we'll never know unless someone does a scientific barrage of tests on under inflated balls.

 

All the cheating? What are you talking about? Some balls were under inflated, big deal for one game. Please explain what advantage that has that it wouldn't have for anyone else trying to catch the ball

The Patriots video taped some signal calls from a game. Is this different then any coach watching the calls and picking up on them during a game?

Your making a mountain out of a molehill out of convenience. It is obvious you envy the Patriots or you would quit talking about it.

I respect your opinion But damn dude it really is getting old. The fact is they are better then we are. Period. Superior in so many ways to every team in the division that all of the teams have their work cut out for them. It will be a daunting task to unseat the Patriots any time in the next several years. Last week was an amazing dismantling of the Chiefs. Say what you want about them but it rings hollow. Belicheck is arguably the best coach to ever coach the game. And that is saying something.

 

There are a whole lot of teams better than we are. That has literally nothing to do with my stance.

You guys really need to ask yourselves why that team literally risks everything on things that don't help them or are no big deal. You also have to logically explain why not only would they risk so much for so little, but they wouldn't risk just as much for bigger advantages. Why do they deserve the benefit of the doubt?

I feel like I crossed over into a crazy world, where a coach who did little took a 6th round QB and became a juggernaught and get's caught for cheating twice, and people defend them. They are the Lance Armstrong of football.