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Miami Considered Reaching Out to Tebow...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    The resurrection?
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Oh yeah.. worth pointing out that the NFL excessive celebrations rules makes a special exception for prayer!

    So at least the league is doing the opposite of discriminating against overt expressions of religion faith. They actually made a special exemption for it.
     
  3. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Are you religious cb? I ask only because you strike me as a rational empiricist, and data driven. When I was more on that side of things, and my buddies who are, it was incongruent with being very religious.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not at all religious.

    Regarding God.. I'd describe myself as in principle agnostic but in practice atheist. That is, I can't prove it doesn't exist but I never actually assume it exists in practice. The burden of proof lies on those making the claim from my point of view.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    What would you call someone who stages protests during the waving of the American Flag and the National Anthem? Or a guy who says he has more respect for communist leaders? That's about as anti-American as you get.

    The funny part is that if he did that in Cuba towards Castro, his body would have been found floating in a river somewhere. He uses his US rights to trample on the same country that has allowed him to become so successful. As a fellow-American, I am highly offended by that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    And that's a perfectly valid way of thinking- if you're correct in your assumptions. But if you're not, then it's going to be an awkward conversation in Heaven when you tell God, "Sorry God, but you just didn't try hard enough to convince me to follow your word."
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think if there is a God and I got to talk to him, I'd just pester him with questions. I wouldn't make excuses for how I thought in the past because that's the best I was capable of at that time.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think the talk of Tebow being blackballed because he's a christian are patently absurd as the league has always had devout and vocal christian players. Hell, some have even been ordained ministers.

    The defense of Tebow, OTOH, is almost entirely religious based. If he wasn't a devout Christian, no one would be clamoring for him or claiming he got a raw deal.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is just crazy talk. Pulling the patriotism card.

    Nothing about Kaep shows that he is anti-American.

    We live in a country where you can love this country and NOT stand for the National Anthem AND be pro communist. One of the beauties of being a true American.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If he wasn't a charismatic Christian, he would have been told to move to tight end or wide receiver like Matt Jones or MarQuies Gray. His Aura, Leadership, and yes, strong Christian values are prime reasons he got more chances than he deserved.
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that, then there's nothing wrong with it at all. I respect that. At the same time though, I'm asking you to respect my views as well- that's what being an American is all about.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You do not respect mine. You call me Anti-American.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Umm, I said Kaep was anti-American. That has nothing to do with you.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you have to be religious to see the connection, but Tebow does not "talk the talk"...he "walks the walk". That's why myself and millions of others love him. For that same reason though, that's why head coaches don't want him in the locker room- he's a major distraction just being himself.

    And before folks say that he couldn't throw- could Pat White throw? We dumped a 2nd round pick to have a 3rd string Wildcat-type QB on the roster. You can't tell me that people like White (who washed out after one year) are better suited than Tebow would be. There is definitely a place for his skill set in today's NFL- teams are just staying away because of all the attention Tebowmania brings. When you have Oprah wanting to film his journey on the practice field, that tends to make folks a little nervous.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    As I said, there's been numerous players who have walked the walk. Many have been actual ordained ministers. Tebow is not being blackballed for being religious, there is absolutely no evidence. He's been on numerous teams. He's been given numerous chances. He is a terrible QB, pain and simple.

    Pat White is out of the league. Tebow was taken in the first round.

    There is a massive persecution complex with Tebow supporters.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If anyone says "Tannehill sucks," you'd go off on them. Why is people's admiration of Tebow any different? It's not some mysterious complex- we just like the guy and believe that he can play in the NFL.
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    These are unrelated things. You are conflating a whole lot of things together and calling them the same.

    Tannehill is objectively a solid NFL QB. Tebow is objectively not a solid NFL QB.

    Tebow has been given numerous chances. Numerous. That alone proves he is not now nor has he ever been blackballed for anything let alone his religious beliefs. Also numerous other players have been just as devout and played, also disproving the NFL would black ball him for being devout.

    Tebow supporters are not interested in his actual playing ability, they are only interested in his religious beliefs. You think he's a good QB because you agree with his beliefs.
     
  18. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Objectively, Ryan Tannehill has never won an NFL playoff game.

    Objectively, Tim Tebow led the Broncos to a playoff victory over the Steelers: 29-23. Tebow went 10-21, 316 yards, and had an 125.6 QB rating.

    For such a crappy NFL quarterback (Tebow), he has that milestone over Tannehill and it can't be argued.

    For the record, I have no fondness for either quarterback.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If you're gauging how good a QB is by team achievements, then your benchmark is terrible.
     
  20. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    The NFL is a results-driven league, is it not? What has Tannehill accomplished during his tenure with the Dolphins?

    Objective indeed.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Please don't try and make this stupid argument that has been destroyed a 100 times already.
     
  22. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Yes, correct. It can't be argued because Tannehill has never won an NFL playoff game, while Tebow has done so.

    They picked a profession wherein results are expected, a given, and have that constantly looming over them.

    Ryan Tannehill could be the greatest QB to ever play in the history of the league, but if he never produces a playoff victory? It won't matter how talented he is, and it simply comes down to that it just wasn't in the cards for him for various reasons. Despite what reasons applied, the bottom line of showing no results will be the albatross attached to him.
     
  23. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Did Tebow's teammates throw the ball, lead the huddle, execute the offensive plays during that playoff victory?

    Talk about a juvenile argument...
     
  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I depend on your arguments for my entertainment. Please fight this battle yet again. It's one of my favorites. Both sides have gotten pretty good at this topic.

    I especially like the incredulity that happens once everyone is worked up. Then the escalating tone as both sides get more tense and supercilious.

    When evidence and data start to show up I get bored for awhile, but dependably someone starts exaggerating or misrepresenting the facts and it degenerates into name calling. That's the most fun part. Everyone is as mean and invalidating as possible, but they also don't want to get banned. It's fun seeing angry, arguing people attempt self restraint.

    Usually it ends with a warning from a mod anyways, and after a day's silence people bashfully return to the original topic.

    The argument moves to another thread.

    So please, lets get this thing going!
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    List out for each position, each spot of the coaching staff, each position in the front office (directly responsible for player acquisition) and fan participation, the proper percentage of win/loss responsibility and then give the concrete statistical data for coming up with those percentages.

    Then you can make your argument that W/L record is a QB stat. Until then, you are literally making stuff up.
     
  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The basic problem here is that Tim Tebow never won a playoff game, he was on a team that won a playoff game.

    Which team is greater, those Broncos or any team RT has played on?

    As you can see it's not an even playing field, because if we use this logic then Trent Dilfer is then greater than Dan Marino because Dan never won a SB.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    But you're taking things for granted as well. I KNOW he's not a good QB on the NFL level...but 2-4 years in a camp could change that (like it could for any QB). I don't think he was blackballed either, teams just don't want the hysteria that it brings to the field. I went to see one of Tebow's minor league baseball games in the Carolinas a few months back and there were probably 30 media outlets there and a packed house- it was insane for a triple-A club that usually has 50 people in the stands.

    If Tebow did sign with Miami, the next 50 questions Gase would be asked in press conferences would almost all be about Tebow. Not Tannehill's knee, not the state of the defense, but how Tebow looked in practice, how his throwing mechanics have improved and his chances of starting. No coach wants that unnecessary drama and I don't blame them. That's the fan base the guy brings though- it's just on insane levels and the media responds.

    I don't think anyone ever said that they didn't want him because he's a Christian. His faith is an indirect cause of teams being turned off by him though due to the hysteria it brings. You have to admit that there's not a more popular modern athlete- I don't think Phelps is even on Tebow's level of popularity (although it's close).
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No argument, but I think if a team thought he had actual potential, they'd gladly still be putting up with it as QB is important and he generates ticket sales. Again a handful of teams gave him a try and all of them realized the QB talent wasn't there.
     
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  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I think it's a balance, they don't want that distraction from a player who's not worth the trouble, if TT was a competent QB he'd have a job in the NFL, but the fact that after 16 starts he's completed 47.9% of his passes has him home, as it should.
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think all he's saying that if you apply that logic to Tannehill, then it has to be applied to every QB. For instance, people in this thread are saying Tebow is no good because he hasn't carried his team in the playoffs (as a rookie, no less). Well, there are 20+ other starting NFL quarterbacks that haven't carried their team through the playoffs either. Several of those QB's (Tannehill included) don't have a playoff win like Tebow does.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No.

    I'm not saying Tebow is bad because he never won anything. He is bad because he is bad. His mechanics are ****. He cannot throw accurately. He has poor decision making and a poor feel for the game in general. He is the worst version of CKap. If people are saying he's bad because he didn't win anything then they are as equally wrong as people saying a QB who does win is automatically good.
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that- at best, he's a prospect QB3. But don't forget- Goff completed 54% of his passes in LA last year as a rookie. Winston completed 58% in 2015. Connor Shaw completed 50% in his rookie year and Manziel completed 51.4%. Tom Savage completed 52.6% that same year. These are folks that are still on NFL rosters (not Manziel, of course...but that wasn't football related).
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    There were plenty of teams interested if he moved to TE, many teams contacted him about that proposition and he had to publicly say to everyone that he wouldn't move from QB so teams would stop asking him, and that is when interest in TT dried up, he's too far gone as far as QB mechanics.
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    "You've been here, before"
     
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  35. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Love Tim Tebow. I don't want him anywhere near my football team as a QB.
     
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  36. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Except for the fact that I never said that it was a "QB stat." What I did say is that Tannehill has never won a playoff game, while Tim Tebow has done so.

    That brings into question your definition of the word "solid." You stated originally, that objectively, Ryan Tannehill is a "solid" QB - while Tebow is not.

    I just find it interesting that your "solid" QB doesn't have a playoff win, meanwhile a "terrible" QB has reached that plateau. You're certainly free to move the goal posts to deflect from that fact, but until Tannehill actually leads the Dolphins to a playoff win then it's just a hollow collective of hot air.
     
  37. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    The even greater problem, is you're not giving Tim Tebow credit for helping his team win that playoff game. You're both just completely sweeping that under the carpet, and suggesting that the Broncos won that game despite of him.

    The stats from that playoff game don't coincide with the rationale from above.
     
  38. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    Yes, that is correct.
     
  39. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    I wont suggest it. I'll flat out say it: The Broncos did win that playoff game in spite of Tim Tebow. He didnt lead them to the win. The defense dragged him along for the ride.
     
  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think you're probably thinking of a different game. Tebow played well in that playoff win against Pittsburgh, and he was instrumental in their win. Of course he had his share of errant passes and had a really low completion %, but overall this wasn't one of his bad games.

    Here's a lengthy set of highlights where you can see Tebow is responsible for multiple key TD passes and a TD run:



    Doesn't change my overall opinion of him though.
     
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