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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You are just making stuff up now. Tua's concussions were A RESULT OF MANEUVERING IN THE POCKET TO BUY TIME. Literally all three hits to the head came after hanging on the the ball.

    The ONLY reasonable complaint you have about Tua is the concussions. Nearly everything else you say is just false.

    Tua's release, foot quickness, and field vision are Marino-like. He doesn't have Marino's size or arm strength.

    The current QBs closest to Marino are Rodgers and Mahomes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Whatever you gotta tell yourself.

    You act like I'm saying Tua is dog ****. I'm not. Me pointing out his weaknesses is just factual, and are reasons why we need to still be looking to upgrade the QB position. It seems to me that you guys are saying we shouldn't be looking to upgrade, while ignoring the big problems Tua has.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Also, the reason that Tua lead the league in throwing in the shortest time is BECAUSE when he doesn't, he gets murdered, like with the concussions...but the concussions weren't even hard hits. I've literally written this in the last two or three comments, yet you act like I haven't addressed this. You're trying to play gotcha games and discussing everything about Tua as if the things aren't all interrelated. They are.
     
  4. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    It's virtually impossible to upgrade for the next two seasons. We have no draft capital left and even if we did getting Rodgers or Lamar Jackson would mean ripping holes in the roster to pay them. We're all in on Tua for this year and probably next year as well. He's our best option right now. This is the way.
     
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  5. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    No, you are making false statements to support your opinion. You entitled to your opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.
     
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  6. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You stated he DOESN"T HOLD THE BALL OVER TWO SECONDS when it fact HE DOES. You are NOT entitled to your own facts. Period.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  7. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If Tua were guaranteed to play a full 17 game season every year for the rest of his career, would he be good enough, in your opinion, to keep? Simple yes or no question.
     
  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    HE DID NOT LEAD THE LEAGUE IN TIME IN THE POCKET IN 2022. HE WAS 12TH. SO, YOU ARE FACTUALLY INCORRECT AGAIN.

    STOP MAKING STUFF UP
     
  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of blathering about Josh Allen. Let's see how the two QBs compared in 2022:

    upload_2023-3-24_14-46-22.png

    Let me see if I can break it down for some of our Tua doubters:

    Tua was more efficient, while being more aggressive.
    Tua took a fewer percentage of sacks despite being under pressure more often.
    Tua threw a higher percentage of his passes for TDs and a lower percentage for INTs.
    Tua had a higher completion % despite throwing the ball farther down field.
    Tua had better On target % and bad throw % while making more aggressive throws farther down field.
    Tua was more consistent.
    Tua had a higher Expected Points Added (EPA) per play.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Well, that proves it. Tua is better than Allen. I’m sure any GM in the league would take Tua over Allen. It’s obvious.
    We have the best!! :oldtoker:
     
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  11. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Yep!! Evaluators always base their decisions on small samples of data and then extrapolate out.
     
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  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I did not say anything about time in the pocket. Tua consistently is in the top of the league for shortest time to throw, after the snap. For instance, under 2.5 seconds from snap to throw.

    You aren't even understanding the arguments being made.

    People say that is because of his quick release. No. He throws so soon because he cannot take hits and does not have elite skills, like Mahomes, to escape from defenders.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I get that. So, if the people I keep arguing with, would just say, "Yes, Tua struggles on throws to the outside, or taking hits, but he's the best available option," we wouldn't be having any disagreements.

    It's when posters simply disregard his shortcomings, or attempt to explain them away, arguing that Tua is basically an elite QB waiting to blossom, that I have issues with what they're saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
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  14. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Time in pocket is the amount of time after the snap to throw the ball or pressure collapses the pocket. In other words, it is the average amount of time the QB takes whether he throws it or not.

    Here are the time to throw numbers from last season. TUA IS NOT FIRST AND IS AFTER BURROW AND BRADY AND LAWRENCE.

    Got some more stuff to make up? Please stop with your nonsensical explanations. His time to throw is short because he makes quick decisions and is avoiding sacks. EVERY TEAM WANTS TO AVOID SACKS.

    upload_2023-3-24_15-18-53.png
     
  15. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    That QB "waiting to blossom" was near the top of the league in EVERY PASSING STAT. How can you be so dense?
     
  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Ouch! :sidelol:
     
  17. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    He had a better passing season than Allen. Sorry but that is simply true.
     
  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    He has Hill and Waddle, bro!
     
  19. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen a more misinformed poster, ever. Literally none of his "facts" are true.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again with the gotcha games? Do you watch the games? Commentators are always talking about Tua throwing the ball so fast because that's how he avoids the rush.

    This isn't debate class. It's a ****ing forum. When I say he "leads the league" or whatever, on a forum like this, it's a little embellishment to make a point. He is amongst the top in the league for the time from snap to release.

    Arguing that he isn't is ****ing stupid and completely disingenuous. You're acting like he doesn't get rid of the ball faster than others, when he absolutely does.

    Another perfect example of why this argument continues. You act like these criticisms are completely unfounded, because you're arguing semantics. You're arguing over individual trees, and not looking at the forest.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again with ad hominem attacks.

    GFY
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wrong.

    He missed what, 5 games? You have no idea what his stats would have looked like if he hadn't missed time.
     
  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    And, his retort was "he heard an announcer say it during a game". :sidelol:
     
  24. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tua was #1 PktTime in 2021. However, Tuanon doesn't seem to recognize other seasons in Tua's career for some odd reason.
     
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  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    We remember the sharply run dual offensive coordinator years.
     
  26. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    What reason does Burrow have to throw quicker than Tua. Which critical flaw in his game is he covering up? (this should be hilarious). How about Brady? Lawrence? Please, inquiring minds want to know. Are the Bengals and Jags going to replace their flawed QBs because the need to throw quickly?

    You are making up motivations for the quick passes. This offense is BUILT on a quick rhythm passing offense. You have not discovered some secret flaw.
     
  27. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem acknowledging pocket time. The question is how to interpret the data. The anti-Tua crowd automatically assumes it is a problem with Tua. Everyone else realized we had an OL that couldn't pass block.......
     
  28. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    And the revolving door pass blocking.

    PBWR from 2021:

    upload_2023-3-24_15-39-53.png

    But, but, but TUA!!!!
     
  29. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tua was pretty crap even in Alabama w/ a brick wall when having more time with the ball.

    https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/...ats-show-the-less-time-he-has-the-better.html
     
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  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    He was better in the games they played. Period. End of discussion.
     
  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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  32. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Oof.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right. WE ALL UNDERSTAND the oline was terrible.

    That is why Tua's limitations are concerning.

    Can we stop strawmanning?
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right, so let's look at the outlier and disregard the body of work.

    But I'm the one with an agenda.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I also find it hilarious that when we agreed on the QB, you often liked my posts.

    Now that we disagree, I'm "dense."
     
  36. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    There is no factual basis to any of their arguments other than the injuries. That's it.

    Two of the most highly regarded stats for QBs are passer ratings on 3rd down and in the red zone. Tua was #1 in both (for QBs with enough attempts).

    Tua has a passer rating of 130.1 on third down. The great Josh Allen has a rating of 94.9. Well, clearly Allen would be better on third and long.... right?

    3rd and 7-9 yards: Tua 110, Allen 74

    Well 3rd and LONGER!!! Josh Allen can SCRAMBLE!!!!

    3rd and 10+ yards: Tua 104.5, Allen 71.1

    Okay, then Red Zone!! Allen is the man!!

    Red zone: Tua 112.2, Allen 79
     
  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    One important point here: you can't say 2022 is an "outlier". Tua had 400 passing attempts in 2022, out of 1078 attempts over his career thus far. That's 37.1% of all attempts. No way anything with over 1/3 of all data points is an "outlier".

    We need lots more data to see which of 2020-2021 versus 2022 is more indicative of Tua's actual ability.
     
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  38. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, you're dense on Tua. We good?
     
  39. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    There you go! Back to just one season of small data. You pretty much proved resnor's point.

    Use a larger sample! You could look at his whole college career, or his professional career. Naaaa. You do you.


    [​IMG]
     
  40. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tua isn't the scrambling/buy time in the pocket type. When he does that, he dies. That's how he injured his hip in Alabama as well. How he injured his ankles. He shouldn't process on his own. He needs structure. He's not smart enough (ie low Wonderlic) to figure out everything on his own. Even super basic shi* like throwing ball away he doesn't do well.
     
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