Chris Mortensen brought up a good observation.

I had Turner and Philly in my FFB league.

Yeah in the Club Level it was said to be Lee's idea to put that into the offensive gameplan.

 

teams will prepair for it, but the ultimate question becomes:

are we going to use it in the game? and what exactly are we going to do with him at QB? A run? A throw? Hmmm....

 

Unfortunately, I think it was most effective today because we caught the Pats by surprise. From this point forward, teams are going to game plan for it and we may not see the same results.

 

Probably what we did with him in today's game.

 

Very good point. I don't think we will see 5 touchdowns from Ronnie every game obviously and doubt the play will be featured as it was this week.

However it just adds another dimension to the game. Taking time to prepare for this takes away from the time to prepare for that. It's all about keeping the opponent off balance which is what I believe this formation can do. Also there are about 2-5 plays I can think of that could be used from that formation that weren't even hinted at.

 

idk...patriots are a really good team at halftime adjustments, and they still couldn't stop it...it looks pretty impossible to stop. just wait till pennington leaks out and ronnie hits him for the td!

 

Exactly Mike. Lee pulled this out against the right team, but dont expect other teams to not be prepared in the future. It was a heck of a sucker-punch

 

Maybe, maybe not.

That alignment allows for a lot of tricks and you can't really prepare for that alignment given all of the options available to the offense...all you can do is try and stop it.

 

i'm glad those trick played worked because if they didnt, we would call henning mularky v2

 

I think the play will still be used around the goaline. It has tooooo many options. Hell it is HARD to DEFEND.

If you take the inside run away (Ronnie and Guard Pulling), the outside is still there.

If you take the outside away...Ronnie can still run or PASS.

I love the play...and LOVED watching them run it with ALL OPTIONS.

 

It's not a trick play at all. It's sound fundamental football. Here is the deal.

Code:

                                           R             

          R                                                         <-------   R          Q
                              T   X   X  X  X  X   T

         *C               *L      E     N      E     L                     
                                                                                L?          C

                                           LB           


                      *SS                                 FS 

We left the sideline with two tight ends and two backs. The defense sends in personel prepared to defense two tight ends and two backs. The difference is that of the player with the (?) beside his position. Is he a nickel corner or is he linebacker. If he's a nickel, you just reduced their run support versus your standard two back, two tight end set. If he's a linebacker, you run the read option at any point you would like. The defenses first dilemna is that of substitution packages.

The players with the conundrum are the contain men located by the asterisk above. Is the corner the contain man? That's a bad option considering he's got Ricky Williams bearing down on him.

Is the linebacker the contain man? Okay, but realize you just gave that TE a free release off the ball. The linebacker must move outside at the first sight of motion or he will never contain. If he widens that opens the C gap for Ronnie to run through. He is the "read".

There are a couple of different ways to address this package. The problem is that once the offense gets the bead on how you are defensing it, they know what you have left open. The defense is always leaving something open versus "read option" just as something is always left open versus wishbone option. The only way to take away the "read" is to replace the other option with another man. One player has one assignment (contain) and the other has the other assignment (C gap). Once you choose that method, something else was left open. The possibility for the offense is limitless. It's up to the defense to discover what you do well and concentrate on taking that away. My guess is that the pass will be left open more often than not.

 

That's a given. The upside is that it shows initiative, balls, and ingenuity.

 

I had all 3 on my fantasy team no joke.

 

I don't care if we ever use the same package again, we beat the PATS, and that alone already makes this a better year than last year. Brilliant, just plain brilliant.

 

That's what I was telling my wife at halftime yesterday. Even if we lose the rest of the season, going into Foxborough and absolutely SPANKING the Cheatriots already assures a better season than last year. The rest is just icing on the cake baby.

 

It was a great win all the way! Good job coaching staff.

 

Well, yeah but only if it works as successfully against other teams...now that it's out there on film, every team will have the opportunity to a)copy it and b) diagnose it's every component to find a successful way to defend it...it won't be a surprise so it may not be as successful, I guess is what I'm saying.

 

Were it impossible to stop, Arkansas would have won multiple national championships with McFadden and Jones.

It's quite possible to stop it.

 

Thanks zod for pointing out the fundamentals.

Can anyone draw up a diagram on how it is stoppable?

I like that we can see the positives. What are the ways it can turn into a negative?

 

Well not only that, but you would see most of the Pro teams using it as well.

This was also a good way for us to match up against the very old Pats defense. Most teams would simply use their stud LB to "Hawk" Ronnie in those situations. Ronnie is an incredible talent, but most defenses have a rover-type linebacker that will shut down most of what we were running. The Patriots are old and rely heavily on Team Defense. Henning just isolated Ronnie on (Pick anybody in the secondary) and he was better than anybody back there.
Very good coaching more than anything IMO...oh, and of course it doesnt hurt that Ronnie was able to come back, quiet the critics and prove he is one of the top 5 backs in the league again.

 

Yes and no

Sure it gives the offense a few different options and may confuse a defense the first time they see it, but isn't that the goal of every offensive play? And then you have Penny on the outside, does anybody really think that he's going to be a factor as a WR or as a blocker? You basically lose a player out there unless the D completely ignores him and he gets himself wide open, even then you run the risk of him not making the catch or getting injured while doing so. The play would be more effective if they substituted another WR for Penny, JMO though.

But even still, defenses will study tape, practice a way to stop it during the week and they'll be expecting it. I just hope that the Phins have another play like this up their sleeve, we can't live off this for the whole season, one good play does not a season make.

 

There's no way we'll go with that Wild Hog offense as our base offense. You know it'll be there, just not a lot. That's how I would like it to be anyways.. We only used it what? 5 or 6 times? I think 4 of our touchdowns resulted from that formation.

 

The negative is that you are running the legs off your backs. It's one of the killers in any spread type offenses. Ricky commented about the work put in on Wednesday this week. He said, "I almost tapped out." This thing really kills the sweeper. A team should have two of them if that's what they do.

Let's work on stopping it now.....

Code:

                                           R             

          R                                                         <-------   R          Q
                              T   X   X  X  X  X   T

         *C               *L      E     N      E     L                     
                                                                                L?          C

                                           LB           


                      *SS                                 FS 

I realize that this is not the EXACT formation used but the concepts largely remain the same in defensing the read option. Wherever the offense places a man, the defense places a man.

The first thing I'm addressing is that I'm keeping the match up in personel the same. When you have two tight ends and two backs, I've got four linebackers. I'm not bringing in the nickel cornerback for you to run at.

Here is why I say that the pass will be the most logical thing left open. Look at all the asterisk players. I'm stopping the sweep and the off tackle. Ricky and Ronnie are your two best players. Ronnie's strong point isn't passing. It is running.

The first thing I'm doing is zoning one side and man to man the other. I'm zoning the asterisk side. I'm man to man on the motion side. On the zone side I can switch from safety contain to corner contain. I could also fill the C gap with the Safety and contain with the linebacker. Those are all zone assignments. It doesn't mesh with man assignments. In any event, I'm switching the roles of those three individuals. That is now in my defensive arsenal. You now do not know who will role up in a contain assignment. You also do not know who will fill the C gap. You also do not know who is covering your TE to the sweep side as well. Nor do you know who will cover your receiver to that side. But I'm not so worried about your pass. Ronnie cannot read coverages. He's only given a run pass option to the weak side. I'm playing the side the motion back vacated as the weak side. Remember that I am covering the receivers on that side man to man. The linebacker that started on the sweeper will now move to the interior of the defense. He locks on your QB as soon as he reaches the core of the offense. I now have seven in the box defensing your interior run. I also have a safety rolling up into a contain assignment on occassion.

Now you may say that you will call the run/pass option to the weakside. That's fine. On that side I have a FS doing nothing. I think I'll use him. On occassion we will bring the corner on a blitz to enforce containment. On occassion we will contain with the linebacker cover the TE. On other occassions the Free Safety will contain. As you can see, I have three options to that side of the ball too.

Do not misunderstand me here. Everything that I have done has left something else open. You have to find what I have left open. In reality, we are just seeing who will implode first. Have you invested enough practice time in this to do it full time? I'm not banking on that. I'll give it about 15-20% of my practice time this week because it is something new that my defense has not seen. I will use concepts that my team knows how to execute. By no means will they be perfect in their execution. But then again, I'm banking on the fact that you will not perfect any of your plays neither.

 

Thanks a bunch. I'll have to read them both a few times to fully digest it.

On this last one though if you've got man to man on one side and the back bowls over his man and beats the front 7 he's basically got a wonderful chance to take it to the house? or if he executes his throws wonderfully then that also is a wonderful chance? and the reason why it worked last game?

let me know if i'm thinking correctly.

 

Well here is where your personel grouping comes back to bite you in the arse. You left Chad Pennington over there. His only instruction is to get the heck out of the way. I really do not even have to cover him. So I have three options at containment and two linebackers in the cutback alley. Nothing good is going to come for you to that side.

The only thing you have to that side is the TE crossing from the other (zone) side. I have to train one person in my secondary to look for the first crosser. It's a good thing that I have already done that or I would not be able to execute this defense. All defenses now include some sort of man/zone combination with the ball being the divider. Defenses actually have to account for up to three crossers......

 

One other thing.......

If you go back and view the sweeps, you will find that the NFL field will not allow you much success on the sweep side. The distance between the hash marks is too narrow. You will never have an actual wide side of the field as does the college and high school ranks.

What I'm saying is that to the sweep side, I really don't even have to contain your sweeper. All that I have to do is "bounce" him further outside. If you watch one of Ricky's sweeps you will see that they never could catch him. The sideline caught him.

 

do you study film or somethin'? seriously i would like to attain this knowledge.

 

Excellent point!

Teams now actually have to gameplan for the Miami Dolphins offense! When was the last time that happened?!?!?!?!!

 

Sporano said that they didn't even scratch the surface with what they could do with it.

 

Zod, I kneel before you!

I love that we're actually discussing football on a football message board. Great analysis!

 

I thought that this was interesting:

Patriots head coach Bill Belichick contended today that his team worked on that play in practice during the week leading up to Sunday's game. He said the New York Jets had utilized running back Leon Washington in the same formation the week before, which makes Miami's success even more impressive.

Dolphins Still Going Hog Wild; Defense Answers The Bell; Other Notes - NEWS: Top Story Presented by WACHOVIA - MiamiDolphins.com

 

Im really liking david lee right now

 

One good thing that many of the pundits observed today, was the fact that now teams will have to spend part of their practice time on these formations, which leaves less time for the REAL offense we will be running. It gives them more to think about, and spreads them thinner. All good for us !

 

First, Great analysis and diagrams above...

Exactly, its why its not a staple or traditional NFL offense....therefore, its a gimmick offense. And only even remotely successful with the proper personnel to make it work when you need to pull out a wrinkle or two. I love that we have the package to do it, I love that Ronnie pulled it off to perfection, but in no way can you expect it to be used each week, nor fail to take its toll on R&R, and the pulling guard, etc. Its an excruciatingly cardio intense offense.

 

Good thing our guys have a weekend off to recover

 

Yeah, and then I will join them in Miami to see vs. SD!!! woohoo...cant wait.

 

For those of you wondering how Mortensen might have figured this out, Mortensen's son Alex is a backup quarterback at the University of Arkansas. So Mortensen is familar with David Lee's work, through the experiences of his son.

 

Yeah, film from my team.

When I watch the Phins, I'm a fan with a beer in my hand.

David Lee got this stuff from Gus Malzahn. Malzahn has a book and video out but they suck in comparison to Tony Demeo's product on the same topic - the option running game.

Coaches Choice

To learn a simple defensive concept I would suggest you start with a product from Rex Ryan.

Coaches Choice

It is a series of videos that take you from the defensive front to the secondary. All of the product is for implementing an entire defense though. For a fan just trying to learn what is happening in a secondary, I suggest the final two videos in the series.

Coaches Choice

Coaches Choice

Finally there is a book that I purchased last year. It's a plan for your secondary versus every spread formation. It contains everything imaginable in coverages including advice for the best coverages versus the expected formation and route combinations.

Coaches Choice

You can find most of these products cheaper at Amazon.com.


If you want all my knowledge, you will have to build your DVD/Book collection to over 100 volumes. Realize what it took me more than a few years to discover though - all football is not the same. Technique and strategy vary from year to year and generation to generation. At some point you will reach information overload.

 

I know that some here may not agree but every new type of play is a gimick play to begin with. The forward pass, at one time was called that and considered wimipy to boot. I'm not saying that we should turn to this play against all others but if we have the horses to make it work then to not try it several times a game is crazy, to me. The pass doesn't always work but we still try it. I say we use it, will it always be sucessful? Maybe not but it was on Sunday against a very good team and they were unable to stop it. So if we don't use it some now; just who is the foolish one?

Go Dolphins.