Teams do do that. No way you can convince me spending money on unproven major league talent is equivalent to spending money on proven major league talent. You have to have a combination of proven and un proven talent IMO.
But how is Kasnas City giving 55 million to Gil Meche considered "proven" talent? Who exactly are they bidding against for that player at that price? It HAS been proven that investing resources and money into your farm systems does tend to make for a sustained influx of major league talent ala Marlins, Dodgers and even your precious Braves.
I know. But again, prove to me there is not more of a chance of failure moving someone up from the farm system versus paying money for someone who is proven.
You're missing my point though. For example in the 2007 draft both Kansas City AND Pittsburgh both passed on Matt Wieters because his price tag for signing bonus was high for them. Yet Kansas City had the money to give Jose Guillen a big contract. My question is why? They were going to suck with or without him, so why not save the money and put it into drafting and developing talent, to both scout and be able to sign those tough draft signs? Why not use that money for international scouting so they can find the next Robinson Cano or Hanley Ramirez? If a team like New York or Boston or LA signs a guy like a Carl Pavano or Juan Pierre or Julio Lugo to a big money contract and they suck the teams could just put their hands up in the air and say oh well and move on. With Guillen, who has been a bust, it cripples the franchise for awhile. It's a dumb thing for these teams to do. A few years ago the Pirates made a deal with the Giants for Matt Morris and took on his big contract and were the joke of the league yet they didn't feel they could sign BJ Upton and instead signed a guy who scouts agree was #3 starter at best with the first pick in the draft. Why on earth would the Royals waste, and let's be fair they wasted 14 million on Kyle Farnsworth and use that money to sign Alex Gordon or Billy Butler to long term deals? Most teams are finally starting to realize that and that's why there are so many veteran players without jobs (like Jim Edmonds, Ray Durham, Frank Thomas etc) now. Teams aren't wasting the money on them.
Besides from the big money issue, not to mention possibly having draft picks taken away by signing free agents, there is zero logic in bad teams signing older veterans than playing their kids in the system, especially if the kids are suppose to be good prospects.
Thing is you can name small teams signing bigger names, and say see they are flawed. Yes it has a larger impact, but you are proving my point. Larger market teams can afford to take the chance more then smaller teams, hence a further example of the disadvantage smaller market teams have. Should they get better at their scouting sure, but in no way do they not need vets or proven talent. You name teams that have failed at fa signings and are small market. At the same time you can name big teams signing big names and being very successful. But I'm willing to bet those who sign the big name talent the majority of the time are successful. It sounds like what you are saying is they have to stay the course and never sign big names, but the next question is, do you honestly think, that a team can compete with proven talent, with nothing but a farm system.
Of course big market teams can afford to take the chance of signing a FA for big money and if he busts it he bust (ala Pavano, Lugo, etc). I've said that they have a big advantage over that I had said that in my previous post. And yes of course teams can compete with just a farm system, just look at the Rays last year. Everyone on their team was pretty much from their farm system or guys they traded for because they had a good farm system. The only notable FA they signed were Troy Percval (2 years, 8 mill) and Cliff Floyd (1 year, 3 mill) and they were signed cheap and short term. Other examples off the top of my head are the Angels in 2002 and Marlins in 2003. It can happen.
Never said it can't happen. But whats the success rate. Im willing to bet less then those that can hire multiple proven FAs. Basically you are asking other teams to play with a disadvantage for no reason other then the bigger teams will lose a large advantage if there is a salary cap. And lets not forget the rays had to go FA hunting this season to compete within their division, who was out buying up talent.
First of all who did the Rays sign this off season? Pat Burrell, Gabe Kapler, Joe Nelson and Brian Shouse. Not exactly locking up some big important names there. Pat Burrell is the only everyday player they signed him to a 2 year deal for 16 million, so it was actually a smart sign because its cheap and short term, these long term contracts kill these teams. The other guys are role players. Second of all, let's take the Kansas City Royals. They signed Jose Guillen to a 3 year 36 million dollar deal, Gil Meche for a 5 year 55 million dollar deal, and Kyle Farnsworth to a 2 year 9.25 million dollar deal in the past 3 off seasons. That's 100.25 million dollars in contracts and wasted money because the Royals have sucked in all of those years, granted Meche has pitched well, but I'm willing to bet anything that the Royals wish they never made those deals because not only have those deals not helped at all in the standings (or attendace because who pays money to see Meche, Farnsworth or guillen play?) but potential lost draft picks and of course the money. Why not use the money trying to lock up their younger players to long term deals? I mean would you rather suck with 100 million or suck with nothing? Instead of just wasting 100 million why not use that money better with trying to sign tough draft picks so they don't have to draft Luke Hochever with the #1 pick because they can meet his asking price instead of picking Evan Longoria or a Ryan Braun? Email Keith Law, Buster Olney, Jayson Stark, John Heyman or even Joe Posnanski, who's a huge Royal fan and writer for the team, and ask them if it's smart for small market bad teams to sign FAs to big deals when it won't help them instead of putting money to better use. Seriously small market teams can be good and can compete. If they have in place a good 4 or 5 year plan by the 5th year they could be very young, very cheap, very talented and very good like the Rays are. Look at Texas and the Giants right now, they're rebuilding and have top 5 farm systems and the Giants have made the mistake of signing guys like Barry Zito and Dave Roberts (who they released and are paying him to sit home) and it hurt them. But they're also putting money into their draft and also international scouting (same with Oakland who signed a 16 year old kid to a big deal last year). It can work and can happen. And also by locking up their younger players (like the Rays did with Longoria) it makes it so the big market teams can't sign those good talented players anymore, so that's another way to compete with them by locking up their good young players early.
My point still stands, they are being forced to abandon the farm system. Yes a farm system should be there but you know you can't depend solely on it. You can talk about mistakes in free agency. But at the end of the day I am willing to be, they will have to continue to sign big names to compete with the sox, and the yankees. Just as atlanta had to sign big names finally to compete, etc. I never said it wasn't a good way to compete, but its still not adequate or as strong as signing already proven players. When you work through the draft yes you can be successful, we see it all over, but no matter what, you still need free agency. Time and time again in baseball we have seen more success with free agency. The game is different at the pro level, and success in the farm system does not guarantee success at the pro level. Success at the pro level is pretty much a given for success at the pro level. Can some players be unsuccessful in so far as they aren't worth what they are paid, sure. But, thats as far as most busts so to speak go when it comes to free agency. Unless they get hurt. And with this I will exit this argument as I no longer feel like arguing . I would like to say remember you have your opinion, and I have the truth, but at the end of the day we are both dolphins fans. Always a pleasure bro.
I never said small market teams should eliminate signing free agents, I'm saying that they shouldn't give out big and long term contracts to guys that won't help them win, especially teams that are light years away from being good. The Tampa example is bad because they're good now and now have money due to their success last year to be able to sign a Pat Burrell. People forget that when Tampa was first created it spent tons of money on big name free agents like Wade Boggs, Greg Vaughn, Jose Canseco, Fred McGriff, Vinny Castilla etc which just killed their franchise and set them back years and years. That's actually a perfect example of a bad team just spending money and not paying attention from building from within and once they realized it have become a top team in baseball. And it's cool I love talking baseball and could go back and forth. I respect your opinion but obviously don't feel the same but that doesn't make either right or wrong. I mean I hated you even before this debate so nothing has really changed because I mean I still hate you now, maybe less so because you want toe to toe with Finkle. Haha.
